Valiant Force Forum

I don't think the old heroes were meant to suddenly become super relevant as well though

Am I the only one agreeing with Sven's balancing? I'm a heavy Sven user too but with these changes, the roles of other heroes, specially other champions, became relevant again. Thus, introducing variety in squads again. I agree that Sven might not be that explosive in the pve now but is still a great damage dealer nonetheless. He is still amazing in pvp with 3CD. I dont mind the HP reduction of the dragon. It's always targeted anyways.

I just feel that Zedd is still left out.

+1 for this, warlock zedd is still useless? no change in his skills?

I think MW Zedd has also gotten worse too. I'm not sure if i want to trade 1 turn CD for a chance to fail Skill Delay....... I mean his only purpose with that skill was the Skill Delay, but now it's not 100%...

i think is because hes still squishy, dev may have rework the skills, lower the CD but if hes still paper... no one's gonna use him

stats of old hero needa be balance too dev, if not still bench warmer Lolll.

I don't think the old heroes were meant to suddenly become super relevant as well though

But letting him keep the 100% Skill Delay still doesn't make him super relevant though... like Sonny said, Zedd is still super squishy...

I think the reduction to 80% is more of a way to keep him from encroaching on MW Kiera's territory though... which is kinda sad... waiting 6 turns and possibly failing Skill Delay (his only purpose) vs waiting 7 turns and 100% succeeding Skill Delay... i know i would prefer the latter...

80% is pretty damn strong though...

The thing is people have invested and whaled on Sven already. It took what, two? months to nerf him? So are we really going to get along with this cycle?

Devs introduce OP unit -> people spend $$$$ on unit -> nerf unit or introduce an even more OP unit -> repeat


Good luck to those who are still blinded by this cycle. I'm out. Ggwp devs

I get that it seems like Sven Zerk is totally unviable. But perhaps you need to look harder to see how you can still maximize his strength. We didn't stomp him into the ground! I promise!

How to maximize his strength? If Sven gained the same amount of ATK boost similar to other Berserker heroes, then maybe he would be more viable. But seriously, he's useless now in PvE. Even if they somehow increase the ATK boost, if the pet dies beforehand there would be ZERO opportunity to cast the ATK buff. Still essentially useless.

The developers should really do some internal testing prior to making sudden changes. Everyone was open to discussing the Valiant changes so at least people had a say on what could be done, changed, or improved upon, but by making this unnecessary and clearly reckless change without giving us a thought about it, well, looks like they've just upset most of the user base judging from the recent feedback. I'm already having flashbacks with the Summoner nerfs, that was an equally absurd move on the developers as well.

The thing is, these nerfs were supposed to only affect PvP. Why didn't the developers THINK of applying them in a PvP setting only, instead of gutting him on everything? 
The biggest irony here is that he's still very strong in PvP. It's so obvious they didn't test it out beforehand.

The problem when you introduce a game maker and make players ride along it, be it slight or minor rebalancing, as long as it's something taken away from the player, don't expect the majority to go along with it with a slight nod.

I'm not laughing or dissing those who invested in Sven or Talissa, but you all should have seen it coming when a hero is too powerful, more so than a proper valiant, it's expected that some changes will come sooner or later.

So instead of harbouring all the hate, take it with an open mind and do some justice for heroes like Zedd and Luthor.

The problem when you introduce a game maker and make players ride along it, be it slight or minor rebalancing, as long as it's something taken away from the player, don't expect the majority to go along with it with a slight nod.

I'm not laughing or dissing those who invested in Sven or Talissa, but you all should have seen it coming when a hero is too powerful, more so than a proper valiant, it's expected that some changes will come sooner or later.

So instead of harbouring all the hate, take it with an open mind and do some justice for heroes like Zedd and Luthor.

They can buff heroes without nerfing others to the ground. I suppose that simple thought never crossed your mind? 
From your logic I assume you're suggesting that we all stop summoning for new heroes then, especially when they look particularly powerful. Heck, we should avoid summoning and raising Gwen, judging by your thoughts she will be nerfed to the ground as well in the near future.


Also you're clearly not aware of the changes if you think this was a "slight" change. Not only is it a big one, it was completely unintentional. 

The problem when you introduce a game maker and make players ride along it, be it slight or minor rebalancing, as long as it's something taken away from the player, don't expect the majority to go along with it with a slight nod.

I'm not laughing or dissing those who invested in Sven or Talissa, but you all should have seen it coming when a hero is too powerful, more so than a proper valiant, it's expected that some changes will come sooner or later.

So instead of harbouring all the hate, take it with an open mind and do some justice for heroes like Zedd and Luthor.

They can buff heroes without nerfing others to the ground. I suppose that simple thought never crossed your mind? 
From your logic I assume you're suggesting that we all stop summoning for new heroes then, especially when they look particularly powerful. Heck, we should avoid summoning and raising Gwen, judging by your thoughts she will be nerfed to the ground as well in the near future.


Also you're clearly not aware of the changes if you think this was a "slight" change. Not only is it a big one, it was completely unintentional. 

Hi Revenance,

Perhaps you got my message wrongly. I'm not saying that these changes are minor or slight. I said "Be it" which is the same as "regardless or not", there will always be disagreement.

And again I never mention that you guys can't summon new heroes. When I say introducing game changing, I'm not saying new heroes.

If they introduce hero with new skills but not to the extent like what happen to Talissa or sven, I believe people would still summon them as long as they find the new heroes useful. Take for example Nadia. I would say she's a very good hero because she is decently strong, her mechanic is balance and utilising her require skills but when you have heroes like Talissa and Sven who are easier to use with minimal or neglectable loss, many heroes and not just Nadia, get overlooked.
I'm sure you see some top tier people using Nadia and they will know where I'm coming from.
But why issit that many people still focus on sven and talissa? Because they are overpowered. It's not like the developer didn't try. They did so for summoners mechanic but even so it's not doing much. You cant say they didn't think deep enough but it's because it doesn't work!

You have a rotten apple in the basket. Do you remove the rotten apple or do you remove the whole basket of apples?

It's not about nerfing new heroes to the ground. It's about introducing heroes that are balanced before releasing them. And when the time comes like you say, as the content becomes harder, then they should buff everyone together.

Hi Revenance,

Perhaps you got my message wrongly. I'm not saying that these changes are minor or slight. I said "Be it" which is the same as "regardless or not", there will always be disagreement.

And again I never mention that you guys can't summon new heroes. When I say introducing game changing, I'm not saying new heroes.

If they introduce hero with new skills but not to the extent like what happen to Talissa or sven, I believe people would still summon them as long as they find the new heroes useful. Take for example Nadia. I would say she's a very good hero because she is decently strong, her mechanic is balance and utilising her require skills but when you have heroes like Talissa and Sven who are easier to use with minimal or neglectable loss, many heroes and not just Nadia, get overlooked.
I'm sure you see some top tier people using Nadia and they will know where I'm coming from.
But why issit that many people still focus on sven and talissa? Because they are overpowered. It's not like the developer didn't try. They did so for summoners mechanic hit even so it's not doing much. You cant say they didn't think deep enough but it's because it doesn't work!

You have a rotten apple in the basket. Do you remove the rotten apple or do you remove the whole basket of apples?

It's not about nerfing new heroes to the ground. It's about introducing heroes that are balanced before releasing them. And when the time comes like you say, as the content becomes harder, then they should buff everyone together.

You're twisting the logic you've already imposed in your initial post.
Do you even know how "be it" is used in a sentence? It's used to follow with a set of conditions that you are assuming will happen.
Here is your actual quote:

"be it slight or minor rebalancing"

You only referred to these two, meaning your message clearly indicated that you think that it's a "minor" or "slight" rebalancing. Now, if you think it means differently, then that's your fault for not communicating your message clearly.

You told us that we "should have all seen it coming", which means you expect us to be psychics that know that a hero will be nerfed eventually. Where do you even begin to judge the strength of a character? You know, Cybella is strong too, yet she has never been nerfed before. 

And by saying you expect that changes will come to these "strong heroes" sooner or later, then you are simply telling us to NOT invest on any of these characters at all because we should expect them to gut these characters to the point of uselessness. So exactly, your point is to warn us not to raise any heroes we perceive that is strong anymore because they will be nerfed to the ground eventually. But your biggest mistake here is that people raise characters especially BECAUSE they have a useful kit that is perceive to be powerful, and if they have to be reminding themselves all the time that this character will be nerfed in the future, why do we even plan on investing on them at all?

It is not the player's fault that these heroes are overpowered, it's the developers'. You are saying that all the weight of the overpowered heroes should lie solely on the players. Why is that? It's not exactly anyone's idea to implement them. And of course, since they are strong and useful, people will flock to raise these characters. If it didn't work in the first place, why DID they do it in the first place? I'm not following your logic at all because it's all contradictory to what you're trying to imply.

You're using the wrong analogy here, this is more accurate. We have a couple of dirty looking apples in the basket. Now a farmer decides to add some bright, good-looking apples into the basket. However, they think the brand new apples clearly outshine the other apples, so instead of simply cleaning the old apples, they decide to remove the good-looking apples instead. Isn't that a bit weird? Why not just CLEAN all the apples to the same level as those newer ones, instead of removing the good ones? Sure, it's a big hassle, but at least the customers will be happier having a good set of shiny apples rather than a bad set of dull looking apples.

You said that the developers should introduce heroes that are already balanced. That's exactly what the developers didn't do, so now we have our current situation. Don't you realize you're agreeing exactly to our sentiments? You were all for nerfing overpowered heroes before, but now you're into making sure that heroes are balanced before release. 

Now let me ask you, how do people judge whether a character is balanced at the start, and whether or not it will be nerfed in the future? Are you going to tell me everyone should have literal psychic powers to make accurate predictions?

Also, let's not forget the fact that the idea that this change was CLEARLY UNINTENTIONAL went over your head, which absolutely destroys any point you've made so far.

if you're curious to see why it was unintentional change, then reread Milo's post again to see their thought process in introducing those nerfs. The keyword there is ARENA.