Valiant Force Forum

Can you at least make RM Kiera's skill scale on damage instead of wall HP? Just make it around a constant 200% HP and increase the damage with skill levels. Also, how is damage calculated for RM Kiera? If an opponent cannot be knocked back, does it deal 220/290% damage or 150+70% as separate instances?

I'm thankful to both VF team and the community for finally doing and discussing ways on making Kiera viable in the game. I remember the time when only 2-3 people fight for meta balance for her. Now, it is overwhelming to see people arguing for her well-deserved revamp. After all, she is a Valiant. She doesn't deserve to sit in the taverns and be an expedition exclusive hero.
I would like to say so much things but many are already pointed out by some forum members.
I would like to reiterate some points to ponder:
1. 5 turn CD is useless against: a.) Zoey MW/WL, b.) Taegen MW, c.) Merlin WL. You propose these great skill effects but Kiera will still remain a low-tier mystic.
2. Resilience will still hamper Kiera's utility in PVP. Arena is all about points. If you bring in a mystic that just get resisted after waiting for her 5-turn CD, well dont bring her at all. Of course, Zoey users has half the problem with this. She initially take out 1 reailience stack.
3. Survivality is still a main problem. All mystics except for Zoey has this biggest problem. Zoey takes off crit% from archer trigger teams (which is very tactical) and her aura are the best among all. Even if zoey dies, WL and MW has the best utility. This is what we also hope for Kiera's jobs. She cant come close to Zoey when it comes to the on-spawn skills that takes out 1 resilience stack but I think her aura should atleast be close.
4. Upon review of her revamps, I suggest the following:
-MW (needs 4 cd, or else she would be useless against Meta Taegen,Zoey or Merlin Teams).
-RM (I'm not sure if the Knockback 2.0 mechanics would do much, you halve skill damage in arena and use def to mitigate magic damage so idk how much damage a 70%/2 - DEFMAG multiplier can do)
-ELE (the game's design for nuker mystics is the most disadvantaged, if you wanna highlight the HP burn, make it more. 25-30% maybe. And if you wanna retain the stun chance, atleast maybe make it 2 turns) her aura may need revision. +25% is too much useless mag coz skill damage is only halved before considering defmag. Maybe +20% MAG +10%Def would make up for survivavility.
-WARLOCK (I like her skillset revamp but I think her aura is still pretty useless. She must have stun on hit if you want to endorse her as a utility mystic)

5. Lastly, I hope you consider what I and the others have stated in this thread. You have control over the game rules but we are the ones who experience the game meta firsthand. Well, I'm still hoping for the best. It would greatly sadden me if this revamp will make so little to no impact at all.

Godspeed!

Well done with the improvements. Thank you for taking care of the peasants like us instead of massively changing the structure of a hero design. Don't listen to the retards who claim that she needs an OVERHAUL. It's fucking hard enough to re-learn new heroes with new skills released every other week. Don't change the core dynamic of a hero. While those amazing players ^ at top 100 or wherever struggle against Zoey and Zoey and Zoey, you allow us middling players or semi-active players to keep a hero usable enough. 

At least you identified the core problem of Kiera (6 turn CD). Let me weigh in on my thoughts.

All Kieras have the opportunity to cast within the first arena cycle.

Kiera MW: Thank you, we can now deal with 1/2 targets with more efficiency than before (thank God for the 5 turn CD too)

Kiera RM: That Knockback damage is gonna pack a punch when you compare that ALL to Leah Warlord's 3 target.

Kiera Elementalist: Finally, an elementalist that can hurt Tanks significantly.

Kiera Warlock: A more significant change in a good direction with legitly strong 3 CD, even with reduced damage. Confuse is questionable compared to effective fear etc, but it's still fun.


That said, understandably we wished that Kiera is more on par with Zoey, but since she's a free hero, I guess that's the reason why certain restrictions were still placed. Thanks for the efforts nonetheless. I do hope for a bigger MYSTIC overhaul than these little revamps here and there, but grateful nonetheless.

Keep going VF! 

Hello Justinlyz, while I understand (and sincerely thank you for) your appreciation for dev's efforts - them trying so hard to please the players but at the same time facing a dilemma to balance the game, I don't see how you should call any one of us retards. Like you, yes everyone have their rights to voice their opinions and suggestions (albeit alot of frustrations here and there) but ultimately (through these feedbacks) we all hope the game give players a more fun and challenging experience.

Honestly I thank the efforts of the devs for hearing us, and there are a few times that devs have done something with the intentions of giving a better playing experience to the players but only to turn out more angst and complains from the community. And they hear us, and made the necessary adjustments for us. That being said, I also won't deny that, sometimes the community (a small group of people) needs to manage their expectations lah, but its only humans that, people only think whats ideal in their opinions and voice it out but that doesn't mean its the best decision for everyone or in this case for game, but hey only if there is feedbacks/suggestions can the game get better!

Once again, I respect your contribution for the community, as all of us are, but please refrain from labeling (or generalize) the community and lets hope for a better game, and slowly-improving community! Thank you and cheers!

Is it only me but did they just roll back all the forum post to 3 days ago.
Removing all the feedback we have given about how underwhelming the proposed feedback is even if it was directed at PvP?

Like Kiera ele skill still is unable to do much from the same 180% before revamp, aura is useless for first 4 turns, and even when mystic skill is casted which only provide equivalent to 12.5%  damage as mag is only used for skill damage that is nerfed heavily in arena. Additionally atk and def aura is useful throughout every turn in arena not restricted by the mitigation and even has chance to crit making damage a lot higher. Skills cannot crit and thus shld at least be stronger by a certain amount, not so much weaker than a normal atk from a archer
Warlock confuse is useless, as confuse is a much weaker status compared to fear.
Someone mention: 
Please do take note that if any changes were to be made to the mitigation factor in Arena, by raising Mystic's power, it could be a direct nerf to ALL Tank Teams since maybe their DEF do not add as much MAG resist. Whether that will happen is a tough call which no player here can be responsible for and will create even more uproar.

The amount of double standards that the developers are showing with this statement is unbearable. 
I do not see the developers even have trouble making changes to nerf mystic further. Guardians talents that make your already underwhelming skill even more underwhelming. Archer talents to make it that they can kill you even when they are not targeting 3rd row. A whole armor set that basically provide every class with more mag and hp to make mystic more useless. Insignia that gives plenty of atk and crit so 19k archers can now easily OTK mystic hiding on 3rd row , insignia that provides more hp and def than what the "nuker" of the game can deal. While mystic gets a mag and atk insignia which half the stats is completely useless. Furthermore the implementation of skins that is just created to make most mystic more useless. Every common vanity skin will give more stats to a defending unit to tank the mystic skill compared to how much damage increase a mystic skill get even with the same skin. Seriously? 500 hp 250 def 250 mag and more on a defending unit compared to a mystic that has 250  effective stats to deal "more" damage.
And someone can touch their hearts and claim that by raising mystic power is a nerf to tank team? Why did this school of thought never surface when they raise archer and guardians power. Its a direct nerf to mystic how many times in a row? All other class except mystic get 2 main and off hand set so that they can equip their raid set. What does mystic get? A manashard set that breaks up raid set.
Such shameless double standards, that it can make any more informed gamer cringe at how they are treating mystic on the whole.

Is it only me but did they just roll back all the forum post to 3 days ago.
Removing all the feedback we have given about how underwhelming the proposed feedback is even if it was directed at PvP?

Like Kiera ele skill still is unable to do much from the same 180% before revamp, aura is useless for first 4 turns, and even when mystic skill is casted which only provide equivalent to 12.5%  damage as mag is only used for skill damage that is nerfed heavily in arena. Additionally atk and def aura is useful throughout every turn in arena not restricted by the mitigation and even has chance to crit making damage a lot higher. Skills cannot crit and thus shld at least be stronger by a certain amount, not so much weaker than a normal atk from a archer
Warlock confuse is useless, as confuse is a much weaker status compared to fear.
Someone mention: 
Please do take note that if any changes were to be made to the mitigation factor in Arena, by raising Mystic's power, it could be a direct nerf to ALL Tank Teams since maybe their DEF do not add as much MAG resist. Whether that will happen is a tough call which no player here can be responsible for and will create even more uproar.

The amount of double standards that the developers are showing with this statement is unbearable. 
I do not see the developers even have trouble making changes to nerf mystic further. Guardians talents that make your already underwhelming skill even more underwhelming. Archer talents to make it that they can kill you even when they are not targeting 3rd row. A whole armor set that basically provide every class with more mag and hp to make mystic more useless. Insignia that gives plenty of atk and crit so 19k archers can now easily OTK mystic hiding on 3rd row , insignia that provides more hp and def than what the "nuker" of the game can deal. While mystic gets a mag and atk insignia which half the stats is completely useless. Furthermore the implementation of skins that is just created to make most mystic more useless. Every common vanity skin will give more stats to a defending unit to tank the mystic skill compared to how much damage increase a mystic skill get even with the same skin. Seriously? 500 hp 250 def 250 mag and more on a defending unit compared to a mystic that has 250  effective stats to deal "more" damage.
And someone can touch their hearts and claim that by raising mystic power is a nerf to tank team? Why did this school of thought never surface when they raise archer and guardians power. Its a direct nerf to mystic how many times in a row? All other class except mystic get 2 main and off hand set so that they can equip their raid set. What does mystic get? A manashard set that breaks up raid set.
Such shameless double standards, that it can make any more informed gamer cringe at how they are treating mystic on the whole.

Double standards is clear when you notice even the pay-to-win mystic Zoey... is never used in PVE...
Mystics and healers are useless because their main stat mag is useless. Why def can migrate magic damage but mag cannot migrate physical damage?
Currently, almost every mystic used in arena stack def instead of mag. One of the biggest requirements for a mystic to be useful in arena is... she need to work without high mag. Zoey MW/WL, Merlin WL are examples. 
Another point is that mystic/healer heavily depends on their long CD skill to finish their designed work, therefore they need a significantly better aura compared to other class. Zoey/Merlin WL are best examples. A good aura makes them useful even before they can cast their skill. So sad to see Kiera didn't get a good aura in any of her class for this revamp. She at least needs a stun.
Well, lets face it, mystic is the least loved class in this game. Zoey is popular only because she's the only darklord now. Imagine if we have ranger/champion darklord on our team, will we bench zoey? I think That's highly likely to happen. (as zoey is already benched in PVE even as a Pay-to-win hero)
The devs nerfed skill damage, the devs nerfed healing, but the devs never nerf crit rate/damage for arena even if everyone is complaining archer cancer... the double standard is real...

Well, lets face it, mystic is the least loved class in this game.

This cannot be emphasized enough, but Zoey I believe will be safe for a long time.  It almost feels like all the rest of the mystic class are deliberately being left behind just to make Zoey look so shiny.  New meta is emerging now with players using double Zoey instantly nullifying 2x resilience.  Despite the VF's team best efforts to make this game a P2W game, as a minimal spender in-game, I can still somehow manage to hang on competitively at the top level, but i'm barely hanging on.  I feel this will eventually reach a tipping point.

One more thing about mystics, with all their handicap, they are the only class in the game that has no optional offhand equipable gear.  Archers and Champions were naturally two-handed type classes, but they have been given various offhand gears.  But mystics, devs don't want to give them this opportunity, because they are already so overpowered (sarcasm).
P.S
Whoa. What happened to the previous posts?

Is it only me but did they just roll back all the forum post to 3 days ago.
Removing all the feedback we have given about how underwhelming the proposed feedback is even if it was directed at PvP?

Like Kiera ele skill still is unable to do much from the same 180% before revamp, aura is useless for first 4 turns, and even when mystic skill is casted which only provide equivalent to 12.5%  damage as mag is only used for skill damage that is nerfed heavily in arena. Additionally atk and def aura is useful throughout every turn in arena not restricted by the mitigation and even has chance to crit making damage a lot higher. Skills cannot crit and thus shld at least be stronger by a certain amount, not so much weaker than a normal atk from a archer
Warlock confuse is useless, as confuse is a much weaker status compared to fear.
Someone mention: 
Please do take note that if any changes were to be made to the mitigation factor in Arena, by raising Mystic's power, it could be a direct nerf to ALL Tank Teams since maybe their DEF do not add as much MAG resist. Whether that will happen is a tough call which no player here can be responsible for and will create even more uproar.

The amount of double standards that the developers are showing with this statement is unbearable. 
I do not see the developers even have trouble making changes to nerf mystic further. Guardians talents that make your already underwhelming skill even more underwhelming. Archer talents to make it that they can kill you even when they are not targeting 3rd row. A whole armor set that basically provide every class with more mag and hp to make mystic more useless. Insignia that gives plenty of atk and crit so 19k archers can now easily OTK mystic hiding on 3rd row , insignia that provides more hp and def than what the "nuker" of the game can deal. While mystic gets a mag and atk insignia which half the stats is completely useless. Furthermore the implementation of skins that is just created to make most mystic more useless. Every common vanity skin will give more stats to a defending unit to tank the mystic skill compared to how much damage increase a mystic skill get even with the same skin. Seriously? 500 hp 250 def 250 mag and more on a defending unit compared to a mystic that has 250  effective stats to deal "more" damage.
And someone can touch their hearts and claim that by raising mystic power is a nerf to tank team? Why did this school of thought never surface when they raise archer and guardians power. Its a direct nerf to mystic how many times in a row? All other class except mystic get 2 main and off hand set so that they can equip their raid set. What does mystic get? A manashard set that breaks up raid set.
Such shameless double standards, that it can make any more informed gamer cringe at how they are treating mystic on the whole.

yes my post also missing idk why?, maybe they have problem by virus or malware idk, but tbh the missing post have many good points(including from  u & Xinhuan), but i hope dev at least read it before it gone missing.

November 30th is only 2 days away and some of the important posts in this thread are missing.
I really don't see any hope regarding Kiera...
She's slightly better but not really good enough to use.

Let's face it. MAG is the worst stat in the game.
Physical damage is calculated by atk - def so def and atk has 100% potency. Compared by how skill damage is decreased by Mag in a % instead of substracting it directly.
Mag doesn't add skill damage in any way except for mystic and healers who use mag as a base percentage for their skills. And even so, their damage is dampened even further by 50%.
This is even becoming worse with rhea dragoon who can jump into your formation and destroying your whole mystic formation or rangers triggering 12 times with 15k++ atk.

Mystics are useless in PvE and except for zoey, their PvP performance doesn't justify their uselessness in PvE.

so... you capped ele kiera dmg to make her better? i call that nerf pls... no more cc (also increase immediate dmg? really???????) I'd rather you remain her skills

so... you capped ele kiera dmg to make her better? i call that nerf pls... no more cc (also increase immediate dmg? really???????) I'd rather you remain her skills

I'm in the same page.
A well equipped Guardian will have 25k hp.
20% of 25k is only 5000 compared to 100% mag tile burn x 2.
15k mag kiera can deal 7500 x 2 damage instead.
This is a Nerf rather than buff.
If you want to make HP scaling damage better make it 35% or nothing at all.