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YayuSheng
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Re: Leon and Theia's Journey continues in April 2017

Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:32 pm

Justinlyz wrote:
They'll probably require you to MLB your valiant before making it 6* :p

hahahaha if that's the case, there will be also commotion xD 
because the rift between player will be also wide & high xD i think it's not best solution xD but i know you are just kidding xD
 
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Justinlyz
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Re: Leon and Theia's Journey continues in April 2017

Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:04 pm

I'm kidding but there may be an element of truth to it don't you think?

Supposed Vincent gets a 6*, it'll prolly make sense for his lvl 40 to get it rather than his lvl 30... Then if that's the case, there should be some balance with the Valiants also heh..

Prolly easier to get Valiants next time with selectors or something I hope
 
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Cassiel
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Re: Leon and Theia's Journey continues in April 2017

Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:08 pm

Let's not forget that this game is not 7 Knights. The devs may or may not choose to do awakening function. They have never mentioned about this so far. So let's try not to deviate from the real topic as it could cause some clash of opinions on the issue that is not related to the topic.

Back to the devs' decision about Leon and Theia, I wholeheartedly accept it. I had 4 Leon at 4* and i decided to lb him to lv 29 3 days before this announcement. I only keep the best one to make 5* coz I know he is the protagonist and will one day become 5*. I also fed 5 Theia to train my 5* hero recently. I was aware of the risk as well but I thought I will have enough time to collect Theia again. Then, here comes this announcement. But well, it's my fault for not having enough patience and I wont blame the devs or demand any compensation from them. I will keep Leon as legacy unit, imho he will still be useful in certain situations in the game.
 
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Re: Leon and Theia's Journey continues in April 2017

Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:30 pm

That's true, sorry for deviating!

I agree with Cassiel too, I think that having a 4* LB-ed Leon may not be that bad... Now you can save on farming a Miu/building a BK Darrion/Glad Drake and just use 2 leons for lifesteal slaves for SDD SHOULD BK Leon still have the LS aura. It will be a slap in our face if he doesn't have a LS aura though. That will be immensely outrageous as well, making his Zealot more useful than his 5* version.
 
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Re: Leon and Theia's Journey continues in April 2017

Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:37 pm

YayuSheng wrote:
freydom wrote:
In the defence of the developers, I feel that the decision to make MLB leon and theia units legacy units are fair and just. 

Logic stems from a few points:
1) Drop rates of theia and leon will remain unchanged. Just keep playing and surely anyone will get enough material to make a lvl 40 theia or leon within a month of two.

2) Since a few patches back, there were rumours and hints dropped by the people from the company that theia and leon will get a remake sooner or later. All players should be well prepared already. If you made a decision to MLB theia (which i can never understand since from upgrading heroes we know from experience going anywhere beyond +2 will be a waste of resource for a 3 star unit), then well that is obviously a mistake,(non mistake if you come from the perspective of I dig n love a 3 star theia for sentimental value). So mistake or not (since mistake is also a matter of perspective as different people enjoy the same game differently) , just own it and live with it. 

By the same method of reasoning but from an alternative perspective, in this instance, I can also argue that why do developers not reduce the summoning rate for leons and theias since I now feel likes its a punishment to have taken up at least 50 hero slots for keeping every single leon and theia draws. Should I not have been rewarded for sacrificing my 50 over hero slots in anticipation of a further job path from these heroes?

 Why should players who did not sacrifice their hero slots get the same drop rate now? I mean, by that reasoning, sure I can choose to blame the developers too right? But thinking quickly, it is clear the onus and the blame does not fall on the developers. These are all our own "mistakes". So just own it, and make the next best move. To compensate players who choose to MLB their leons and theias if you push for it, I would feel like it is unfair for players like me who sacrificed their hero slots( a fair majority of us).  


3) If you have MLB a leon zealot which I would think make sense for many who runs a SDD formation, then good for you, cause that leon would have served your purpose. And just in case you think i am a winner from this change, I am too a victim with a lvl 27 leon zealot. But hey, I stopped at 27 when I heard rumors and reason out myself, that surely a MLB leon would be a risky move when the change come. So it therefore is a strategic move to not MLB  a leon further in anticipation of that change. As mentioned before, if you made a lvl 35 leon n used him well, then it still works brilliant for you. IMO the developers are nice enough to keep the summoning rate the same which makes the legacy hero a non event anyway. 

Lastly, if you guys feel something should be done for legacy heroes, then may I just propose a more generic solution, that is to allow players at a high cost, to reset all heroes to their 3 star forms. Valiants included. That way we can always easily reallocate our in game resources appropriately in accordance to our gaming needs at any point in time.  That is a winning solution for us players. But will that hurt the developers profit? We will not get a clear picture unless we work in their company, and it is a reality that we should accept that some decisions need to be avoided or made to ensure the company ability to survive.

Sure enough, this game thus far has some areas that are a letdown in planning (such as raid which I complained a fair amount), the legacy heroes arrangement imo is a fair one.  
Thank you developers for your hard work. The upcoming updates are exciting and I am looking forward to it. 

we can agree to diasagree, for leon & Theia i am a bit dissapointed like i said in my previous post, but i'll try to swallow it no problem, but i think we have to agree that the dev can't do this scenario to valiant right?, about profit, as long we play the game they will get profit

& of course if valiant already LB they should give us an incentive, don't just make it can do awakening like there is no sacrifice on our LB valiant, the point is, pls think carefully before u decide to add awakening valiant, & please measure everything so the dissapointing echo will not many to your end

IF as you speculate, hypothetically the developers do make a promotion system for valiants that follow suits the procedure in promoting leon and theia into legacy hero (which i think is absolutely unlikely and highly uncharacteristic of them),and supposedly we assume that haphazard planning without concern for catastrophic complications can occur (or happen again w reference to "beta" raid) , then yeah i can agree with you in disagreeing to such an act/decision. But as Cassiel mention, and the fact that at this point, while there are revamps to valiants rumors, they are nothing remotely close to suggestions of a 6 star promotion system,thus your concerns for a poor valiant promotion are not quite relevant. But i understand your worry, and would freak out too, if what you postulate happen. Just that I really dont think it will. I do observe a few people in this thread echoing your concerns, hence i think it can serve well to remind the developers to never consider such an option. (although really, imo, it will be so irrational for them to do that, its as if they are shooting themselves in their foot) 
 
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YayuSheng
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Re: Leon and Theia's Journey continues in April 2017

Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:38 pm

+1 Freydom for ur objective response coverage

& yes i admit it just my mere specalution, i already state that in this thread on my first reply.
the speculation pop, because i am worried the pattern will repeat, i do this(speculation) at least i try to warn(pls don't do this), if it's still happen, at least i try ;) 
 
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Re: Leon and Theia's Journey continues in April 2017

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:48 pm

freydom wrote:
In the defence of the developers, I feel that the decision to make MLB leon and theia units legacy units are fair and just. 

Logic stems from a few points:
1) Drop rates of theia and leon will remain unchanged. Just keep playing and surely anyone will get enough material to make a lvl 40 theia or leon within a month of two.

2) Since a few patches back, there were rumours and hints dropped by the people from the company that theia and leon will get a remake sooner or later. All players should be well prepared already. If you made a decision to MLB theia (which i can never understand since from upgrading heroes we know from experience going anywhere beyond +2 will be a waste of resource for a 3 star unit), then well that is obviously a mistake,(non mistake if you come from the perspective of I dig n love a 3 star theia for sentimental value). So mistake or not (since mistake is also a matter of perspective as different people enjoy the same game differently) , just own it and live with it. 

By the same method of reasoning but from an alternative perspective, in this instance, I can also argue that why do developers not reduce the summoning rate for leons and theias since I now feel likes its a punishment to have taken up at least 50 hero slots for keeping every single leon and theia draws. Should I not have been rewarded for sacrificing my 50 over hero slots in anticipation of a further job path from these heroes?

 Why should players who did not sacrifice their hero slots get the same drop rate now? I mean, by that reasoning, sure I can choose to blame the developers too right? But thinking quickly, it is clear the onus and the blame does not fall on the developers. These are all our own "mistakes". So just own it, and make the next best move. To compensate players who choose to MLB their leons and theias if you push for it, I would feel like it is unfair for players like me who sacrificed their hero slots( a fair majority of us).  

Hi Friend Freydom!

Overall great points, and I agree regarding Points 1 and 3 especially. However, with regards to Point 2, let me explain where I'm coming from:

1. Yes, devs already informed us earlier that Theia and Leon will be upgraded/buffed eventually, BUT they did not tell us HOW which left us to assume/decide how to prepare. IF they had told us right from the start that any (M)LB hero cannot be upgraded to 5*, then there would be nothing left to say. So, players had to pick one of the following actions:
(A) Keep their original Leon and Theia "as is" but max level them and maybe just promote Leon to 4*.  -- This group is unaffected by the impending changes.
(B) Make use of their original Leon and Theia, and bear in mind that most of us would be new to the game then and the guide is promoting limit breaks to us so it would be reasonable to expect a number of us to go ahead and proceed with limit break. It would not have been clear to a good number that it's not worthwhile to MLB 3*. This group would have assumed/hoped that their LB heroes could be promoted/upgraded once the changes went live. -- This group is the most affected.
(C) Keep their original Leon and Theia and start storing up/using hero slots with extra Leons and Theias. This group would not be adversely affected by the impending changes and in fact, are handsomely rewarded for their choice of resource use, unlike those who chose to use their resources for (M)LB. You get a headstart for the process of MLB your newly promoted 5* Leon and Theia. And those hero slots can always come in useful in future, especially for Sundays where there is a +20% bonus fusion chance.
(D) Sell/"Fodderize" their Leon and Theia ... this group... too bad for them since Devs did inform us in advance that there would be impending upgrades for Leon and Theia.

2. This is also terrible precedent because it implies that for all future hero upgrades, including Valiants, we have to start from scratch if we want 6* versions. I don't see how this is advantageous for the devs. 

3. So, I don't see why it's worth taking the risk to piss off/"punish" Group (B) for their choice, since it's the developer's "fault" for not telling us HOW to prepare beforehand, especially when there is already quite a bit of unhappiness in other areas like the imbalance in arena, repetitive content and guild raid beta. It seems well within the developer's capability to avoid "losing goodwill HP" here. 
 
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Re: Leon and Theia's Journey continues in April 2017

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:24 pm

Lightwind wrote:
freydom wrote:
In the defence of the developers, I feel that the decision to make MLB leon and theia units legacy units are fair and just. 

Logic stems from a few points:
1) Drop rates of theia and leon will remain unchanged. Just keep playing and surely anyone will get enough material to make a lvl 40 theia or leon within a month of two.

2) Since a few patches back, there were rumours and hints dropped by the people from the company that theia and leon will get a remake sooner or later. All players should be well prepared already. If you made a decision to MLB theia (which i can never understand since from upgrading heroes we know from experience going anywhere beyond +2 will be a waste of resource for a 3 star unit), then well that is obviously a mistake,(non mistake if you come from the perspective of I dig n love a 3 star theia for sentimental value). So mistake or not (since mistake is also a matter of perspective as different people enjoy the same game differently) , just own it and live with it. 

By the same method of reasoning but from an alternative perspective, in this instance, I can also argue that why do developers not reduce the summoning rate for leons and theias since I now feel likes its a punishment to have taken up at least 50 hero slots for keeping every single leon and theia draws. Should I not have been rewarded for sacrificing my 50 over hero slots in anticipation of a further job path from these heroes?

 Why should players who did not sacrifice their hero slots get the same drop rate now? I mean, by that reasoning, sure I can choose to blame the developers too right? But thinking quickly, it is clear the onus and the blame does not fall on the developers. These are all our own "mistakes". So just own it, and make the next best move. To compensate players who choose to MLB their leons and theias if you push for it, I would feel like it is unfair for players like me who sacrificed their hero slots( a fair majority of us).  

Hi Friend Freydom!

Overall great points, and I agree regarding Points 1 and 3 especially. However, with regards to Point 2, let me explain where I'm coming from:

1. Yes, devs already informed us earlier that Theia and Leon will be upgraded/buffed eventually, BUT they did not tell us HOW which left us to assume/decide how to prepare. IF they had told us right from the start that any (M)LB hero cannot be upgraded to 5*, then there would be nothing left to say. So, players had to pick one of the following actions:
(A) Keep their original Leon and Theia "as is" but max level them and maybe just promote Leon to 4*.  -- This group is unaffected by the impending changes.
(B) Make use of their original Leon and Theia, and bear in mind that most of us would be new to the game then and the guide is promoting limit breaks to us so it would be reasonable to expect a number of us to go ahead and proceed with limit break. It would not have been clear to a good number that it's not worthwhile to MLB 3*. This group would have assumed/hoped that their LB heroes could be promoted/upgraded once the changes went live. -- This group is the most affected.
(C) Keep their original Leon and Theia and start storing up/using hero slots with extra Leons and Theias. This group would not be adversely affected by the impending changes and in fact, are handsomely rewarded for their choice of resource use, unlike those who chose to use their resources for (M)LB. You get a headstart for the process of MLB your newly promoted 5* Leon and Theia. 
(D) Sell/"Fodderize" their Leon and Theia ... this group... too bad for them since Devs did inform us in advance that there would be impending upgrades for Leon and Theia.

2. This is also terrible precedent because it implies that for all future hero upgrades, including Valiants, we have to start from scratch if we want 6* versions. I don't see how this is advantageous for the devs. 

3. So, I don't see why it's worth taking the risk to piss off/"punish" Group (B) for their choice, since it's the developer's "fault" for not telling us HOW to prepare beforehand, especially when there is already quite a bit of unhappiness in other areas like the imbalance in arena, repetitive content and guild raid beta. It seems well within the developer's capability to avoid "losing goodwill HP" here. 

Hi Lightwind my pal,


I hear you bro, and I can agree with some salient points/ perspectives you raised especially about newer players that have been "misguided" by in game guides to MLB their 3 star units.
I havent seen one myself, but if they do exists, then yea, that is a harmful guide. 


I dont know how the developers can tell us how exactly to prepare though, cause when they announce how to the world, the way I see it, the only way to not suffer any casualty is if the developer share it right from the launch of the game when no one gets hold of a leon or theia. For the players who have played before the announcement assuming devs decide to share the information 3 months before they decide upon it, there will still be casualty right? As of now, we dont know when exactly the change will come, but since the drop rate isnt changed I really dont see any problem going forward. From the time of announcement, I have already drawn 2 theias and 2 leon from 5x400 i think?  So everyone will be getting their leon and theia to make 5 star eventually. I really dont see any losers when they maintain the drop rate though.  


If you cant MLB them, that doesnt make you very disadvantaged from the start. If it is going to be a character that every stating player will have, it will be immensely helpful for beginners to try to close the distance with veterans but I doubt leon or theia will be strong for long to the extent veteran players will be affected. I know its bad, but I for one expected drop rate to fall for those heroes after they get 5 star. We should always plan for the worst right? 


Those that use leon for SDD, the leon served its purpose. As RAIN mentioned, will still be useful for 4 star heroes criteria. If every decision is to be made known to us months earlier so we can prepare, I also want to know what heroes are coming up so I can prepare for the meta shift in advance. This game is fun and challenging also in part due to this uncertainty which we have to plan for. Some people store up valianite to buy the event hero straight up at every start of event to get the event hero n use them for event. That is a strategic plan that pays off well right if one can afford? or that can be seen as their way of saying, I dont wish to plan. So if anyone dont wish to plan, perhaps that costs 20 valianites every 2 weeks? In the same vein, players who accurately and conservatively plan for the change in 5 star hero for leon/theia : Its too risky to MLB a unit that might get a 5 star since there are no other units in the game at the moment which can be promoted beyond their max level. Those who hold this thought and act on it considered to have the strategic advantage as a result of their planning right? Isnt that also part of the game? 


And yes I do agree with YayuSheng and many others including yourself, if that is a precedent, its a scary one. Though, there is no certainty of a 6 star and if they really do, when valiants are already so rare and hard to get, they will kill off many veteran players. I give the developers the benefit of the doubt, they will not plan to do something so damaging to their player base. But yea, let our discussion continue to stress to them how we really dont wish to see it happen. Cause some bad planning on their part can really leave an irreversible bad after taste such as the beta raid.


"Goodwill HP" hahaha, love the phrase. Ultimately from a big picture perspective, its hard to deny but we are afterall the developers next stage of testing bed, a stepping stone to the bigger market. Every game end goal would be the China, the Americas , Japan and South Korea. Im quite sure VF aims to get there. I do sincerely hope like the rest of you, that the developers will never forget us and treat us badly in anyway cause without us bearing with the mistakes they make, they would not have the great game that they will bring to those big countries. But as much as they need to accumulate Goodwill with us, I also believe us being a supportive community will go a long way to not just entrench ourselves as solid pioneer community when the global release comes, but also when goodwill is exchanged both ways, we tend to listen and care for each other more. 


Winter is coming. I hope the SEA community will not be overshadowed by the other major country communities when the world of Arathos is brought to them. 
 
Lightwind
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Re: Leon and Theia's Journey continues in April 2017

Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:51 am

freydom wrote:
I hear you bro, and I can agree with some salient points/ perspectives you raised especially about newer players that have been "misguided" by in game guides to MLB their 3 star units.
I havent seen one myself, but if they do exists, then yea, that is a harmful guide. 

Ah the implied message is in the screenshot below. Note that it's Leon illustrated in the guide. It's actually for 4-star units but it would be reasonable for a new player to conclude they can do the same with Theia as well. 

Anyway, like you said, in terms of affecting game progression, it's not too big a deal since both starting heroes are relatively easy to get and now there's also Valianite. And of course Devs cannot always let us know in advance about upcoming changes (simply because sometimes they haven't decided yet), but I'm talking about this specific case and how best to handle it.

If it's technically feasible (see my original post) and not too much work, why not just console the Group B or even the Group D customers as well?
 
Screenshot.jpeg
Screenshot.jpeg (131.57 KiB) Viewed 1108 times
 
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Re: Leon and Theia's Journey continues in April 2017

Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:36 pm

Lightwind wrote:
freydom wrote:
I hear you bro, and I can agree with some salient points/ perspectives you raised especially about newer players that have been "misguided" by in game guides to MLB their 3 star units.
I havent seen one myself, but if they do exists, then yea, that is a harmful guide. 

Ah the implied message is in the screenshot below. Note that it's Leon illustrated in the guide. It's actually for 4-star units but it would be reasonable for a new player to conclude they can do the same with Theia as well. 

Anyway, like you said, in terms of affecting game progression, it's not too big a deal since both starting heroes are relatively easy to get and now there's also Valianite. And of course Devs cannot always let us know in advance about upcoming changes (simply because sometimes they haven't decided yet), but I'm talking about this specific case and how best to handle it.

If it's technically feasible (see my original post) and not too much work, why not just console the Group B or even the Group D customers as well?
 Screenshot.jpeg

Yeah, i agree with you that indeed that guide is quite misleading and should be changed into a 5 star hero representative instead before more new players go down a path of legacy hero with their leon and theia since not all players come to the forums for new information and devs do not make announcements or direct link about these blog updates in game. 

 And while enhancing my cybella to 5 star for limit breaking, I notice this (see screenshot below). So by the existing norm, players should already be careful in limit breaking a 4 star who may have the potential to go 5 star. In anticipation of that news when hints were given, players should from the example below, know that a max trained 4 star with 5 star potential cannot (or should not in leon case) be limit broken if they wish to promote him to 5 star in future.


Image


I dont think Group D should be compensated at all if you used it as fodder or sell it away. That would in relative sense be very unfair for Group C people who although has absolute advantage in either case on hindsight, would lose out in relative sense if Group D is compensated since they have sacrificed not just hero slots, but by not using those 3 and 4 stars as fodders have slowed down their game progress.


Lightwind wrote:
Why not scan through each player and check to see if they have a max LB Theia or Leon? If they do, let them keep those heroes as legacy heroes, but as a reward for taking the trouble to use them as MLB heroes even though there were 5* alternatives, send them a max level/max trained 3* Theia or 4* Leon with the same faith/job via post box which they can then train to 5*? 

Group B compensation? 


[Speculation] I think they would probably give out 1 leon or/ 1 theia to every player in commemoration of the main heroes breaking the 4 star barrier. Either as an event reward box hero or idk mail to inbox direct? That could be the most they would go to compensate everyone. I think that I could accept as a Group C player if they choose to do so, and even Group D could be compensated this way.


Lastly, I just want to say, these are just my objective remarks I have in response to each points being brought forward in support of my original stance. As a player, of course I wish for freebies that could benefit us all as long as it is sufficiently fair to most players (hard balancing act).