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jayle
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Re: Valiants' Revamp: Final

Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:23 am

Nekonase wrote:
jayle wrote:
Sonny6166 wrote:
i don't know why no one voice about this, maybe the sven outrage covered this... but this really should be discuss! 

Sw lucile def need a rework for her aura passive. she's not the strongest SW.... aren't she suppose to be one? 

I have a feeling that this was implemented because the developers want to lead us to making the revamped Royal Huntsman Class which is lacking in the current scene.

If you realise, heroes possessing useful aura or skills tend to have one thing off which is, they won't survive nor can the players fully utilise their passive aura unless they are being targeted.
This somehow reminds me of RH's skill which provide aggro to specific unit while providing buffs and shields.

Because Lucille Spirit Walker's skills imo, is a very PvE oriented skill: 
Amplify - 25% to all enemies is a useful debuff in Raid.
Heal + CD Reduction (CDR) - is another extremely useful skill in Raid. Once you have an ideal skill roster in Raid, the next meta could be CDR (resulting in higher DPS) VS the current SDD. 

Another good example would be Kiera Mind Warder.
Her passive is similarly to ask someone to hit her even though we all know mystics are known to be quite soft. But Kiera Mind Warder's shines at skill delays which is a very favorable kit in Raid as well. Pairing her with any RH class and if you don't mind me, including a Lucille Spirit Walker is almost the same as introducing a new meta.
CDR and Skill Delays can be use both offensively or defensively.

 *This is just an example for a normal boss fight*
A Guardian, take HD Darrion for example (Tank + Cleanse), An RH Class (Aggro & Support) + Kiera MW (Skill Delay) + Lucille SW (CDR) + Assassin Shizu  (Refresh)

1. Have Shizu in the center because you want her to be able to refresh either the Kiera or Lucille. *not sure if amplification stacks with Lucille, someone can try it out first*
2. RH must be standing beside the unit you wish to be aggro since you want to enjoy his passive aura, in this case, in between Shizu (if she crits again, her nearby units get refreshed) or Kiera for skill delay or Lucille if you want.
How this formation work is as long as Kiera's skill delays proc and Shizu's refreshes, you will be given extra time for your skills to cool down. Your attacker in this case would be your Shizu in this case given how she deals extra damage when enemies' below 40% hp.

If you want to pair RH with Lucille, won't Archbishop be a better choice? She can cast invulnerability on any ally you aggro on, and her healing aura is more consistent. (Spiritwalker's aura only trigger once in enemy phase, and once in own phase)
On a side note, I found out that amplify can be resisted by weak unit. 


Yes! That's a really good point you've made. You see, the beauty of VF is you can experiment a wide diversity of formation.
Using AB is a good option because she can ensure the survivability of her team.

The above reference is only to show an example of how Lucille SW can be put into play because her passive requires her to be hit. Also to show her combination with Kiera and Shizu in this case to make "Haste" useful in various scenario.
 
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Sonny6166
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Re: Valiants' Revamp: Final

Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:14 am

jayle wrote:
Nekonase wrote:
jayle wrote:
I have a feeling that this was implemented because the developers want to lead us to making the revamped Royal Huntsman Class which is lacking in the current scene.

If you realise, heroes possessing useful aura or skills tend to have one thing off which is, they won't survive nor can the players fully utilise their passive aura unless they are being targeted.
This somehow reminds me of RH's skill which provide aggro to specific unit while providing buffs and shields.

Because Lucille Spirit Walker's skills imo, is a very PvE oriented skill: 
Amplify - 25% to all enemies is a useful debuff in Raid.
Heal + CD Reduction (CDR) - is another extremely useful skill in Raid. Once you have an ideal skill roster in Raid, the next meta could be CDR (resulting in higher DPS) VS the current SDD. 

Another good example would be Kiera Mind Warder.
Her passive is similarly to ask someone to hit her even though we all know mystics are known to be quite soft. But Kiera Mind Warder's shines at skill delays which is a very favorable kit in Raid as well. Pairing her with any RH class and if you don't mind me, including a Lucille Spirit Walker is almost the same as introducing a new meta.
CDR and Skill Delays can be use both offensively or defensively.

 *This is just an example for a normal boss fight*
A Guardian, take HD Darrion for example (Tank + Cleanse), An RH Class (Aggro & Support) + Kiera MW (Skill Delay) + Lucille SW (CDR) + Assassin Shizu  (Refresh)

1. Have Shizu in the center because you want her to be able to refresh either the Kiera or Lucille. *not sure if amplification stacks with Lucille, someone can try it out first*
2. RH must be standing beside the unit you wish to be aggro since you want to enjoy his passive aura, in this case, in between Shizu (if she crits again, her nearby units get refreshed) or Kiera for skill delay or Lucille if you want.
How this formation work is as long as Kiera's skill delays proc and Shizu's refreshes, you will be given extra time for your skills to cool down. Your attacker in this case would be your Shizu in this case given how she deals extra damage when enemies' below 40% hp.

If you want to pair RH with Lucille, won't Archbishop be a better choice? She can cast invulnerability on any ally you aggro on, and her healing aura is more consistent. (Spiritwalker's aura only trigger once in enemy phase, and once in own phase)
On a side note, I found out that amplify can be resisted by weak unit. 


Yes! That's a really good point you've made. You see, the beauty of VF is you can experiment a wide diversity of formation.
Using AB is a good option because she can ensure the survivability of her team.

The above reference is only to show an example of how Lucille SW can be put into play because her passive requires her to be hit. Also to show her combination with Kiera and Shizu in this case to make "Haste" useful in various scenario.

i agree that we need to come out with creative formation to make use of her, but first of all:
since they boost valiant base stats and skills, is normal that they increase the difficulties in master stage event in the future. basically SW wont be able to tank that much of dmg if you put her front row, she'll die in no time. (We have no time to wait for others to cast skills in order to protect lucile)
If you put her in 2row, only shadow will hit her== and also range enemy tend to hit archer more.
Second, I think the best place for her to shine is PVP not PVE, by casting her skills she can reduce other cd by 1 and when she end her turn , cd 6 character gets to cast in turn 5. how powerful is that!
But first things first, she need to be alive. So come back to where i begin , max def or max mag? and also with all these stats boost, archer can reach crit cap easier and ppl starts giving them red atk runes instead of green crit rune.... 
DID YOU NOT SEE archer ERA is back again? HOW do lucille even survive that? MOREOVER put her on the first row? 
im not even mentioning TALENT tree? Do some calculation and you will find that even if you max lucile def and mag, Kane is still capable of killing her in 1st turn. 


I have to pinpoint this again, reducing healer and mystic CD doesn't make them useful in PVE (PROVE ME WRONG PLS)

feel free to discuss! looking forward to you guys replies!
 
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Nekonase
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Re: Valiants' Revamp: Final

Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:20 pm

jayle wrote:
Nekonase wrote:
jayle wrote:
I have a feeling that this was implemented because the developers want to lead us to making the revamped Royal Huntsman Class which is lacking in the current scene.

If you realise, heroes possessing useful aura or skills tend to have one thing off which is, they won't survive nor can the players fully utilise their passive aura unless they are being targeted.
This somehow reminds me of RH's skill which provide aggro to specific unit while providing buffs and shields.

Because Lucille Spirit Walker's skills imo, is a very PvE oriented skill: 
Amplify - 25% to all enemies is a useful debuff in Raid.
Heal + CD Reduction (CDR) - is another extremely useful skill in Raid. Once you have an ideal skill roster in Raid, the next meta could be CDR (resulting in higher DPS) VS the current SDD. 

Another good example would be Kiera Mind Warder.
Her passive is similarly to ask someone to hit her even though we all know mystics are known to be quite soft. But Kiera Mind Warder's shines at skill delays which is a very favorable kit in Raid as well. Pairing her with any RH class and if you don't mind me, including a Lucille Spirit Walker is almost the same as introducing a new meta.
CDR and Skill Delays can be use both offensively or defensively.

 *This is just an example for a normal boss fight*
A Guardian, take HD Darrion for example (Tank + Cleanse), An RH Class (Aggro & Support) + Kiera MW (Skill Delay) + Lucille SW (CDR) + Assassin Shizu  (Refresh)

1. Have Shizu in the center because you want her to be able to refresh either the Kiera or Lucille. *not sure if amplification stacks with Lucille, someone can try it out first*
2. RH must be standing beside the unit you wish to be aggro since you want to enjoy his passive aura, in this case, in between Shizu (if she crits again, her nearby units get refreshed) or Kiera for skill delay or Lucille if you want.
How this formation work is as long as Kiera's skill delays proc and Shizu's refreshes, you will be given extra time for your skills to cool down. Your attacker in this case would be your Shizu in this case given how she deals extra damage when enemies' below 40% hp.

If you want to pair RH with Lucille, won't Archbishop be a better choice? She can cast invulnerability on any ally you aggro on, and her healing aura is more consistent. (Spiritwalker's aura only trigger once in enemy phase, and once in own phase)
On a side note, I found out that amplify can be resisted by weak unit. 


Yes! That's a really good point you've made. You see, the beauty of VF is you can experiment a wide diversity of formation.
Using AB is a good option because she can ensure the survivability of her team.

The above reference is only to show an example of how Lucille SW can be put into play because her passive requires her to be hit. Also to show her combination with Kiera and Shizu in this case to make "Haste" useful in various scenario.

I do agree that the beauty of VF is to experiment different team, but there is a severe lack of resource to train new units to do that (especially with the implementation of talent tree). Furthermore, the fact that I invested heavily in Lucille SW, only to see her get revamped into a defensive unit which rendered all my offensive equipment useless, makes me kind of wary of investing in niche units like her. 
But since I have her, I might as well try out new combinations to make her useful again. I just hope that no other units will get the haste skill since she sacrifice so much just for that skill effect.
 
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ashenwind
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Re: Valiants' Revamp: Final

Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:57 pm

I found out that the hp loss effect from Freya (also Vincent and Leah) berserker's  skill cannot be countered with Resilience rune like the way Sven's hp loss from activating his skill can be negated with it. Also, I realized that due to the nature of the skill, lifesteal heal is also applied before the hp loss occur, effectively rendering the heal moot.

I wonder if this is deliberate design?
 
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Ferico
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Re: Valiants' Revamp: Final

Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:31 pm

Nekonase wrote:
jayle wrote:
Nekonase wrote:
If you want to pair RH with Lucille, won't Archbishop be a better choice? She can cast invulnerability on any ally you aggro on, and her healing aura is more consistent. (Spiritwalker's aura only trigger once in enemy phase, and once in own phase)
On a side note, I found out that amplify can be resisted by weak unit. 


Yes! That's a really good point you've made. You see, the beauty of VF is you can experiment a wide diversity of formation.
Using AB is a good option because she can ensure the survivability of her team.

The above reference is only to show an example of how Lucille SW can be put into play because her passive requires her to be hit. Also to show her combination with Kiera and Shizu in this case to make "Haste" useful in various scenario.

I do agree that the beauty of VF is to experiment different team, but there is a severe lack of resource to train new units to do that (especially with the implementation of talent tree). Furthermore, the fact that I invested heavily in Lucille SW, only to see her get revamped into a defensive unit which rendered all my offensive equipment useless, makes me kind of wary of investing in niche units like her. 
But since I have her, I might as well try out new combinations to make her useful again. I just hope that no other units will get the haste skill since she sacrifice so much just for that skill effect.

Awwwww. Big hugs for those affected by the changes of the core form of valiants. I really feel your sadness.
 
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MiloDinosaur
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Re: Valiants' Revamp: Final

Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:45 pm

ashenwind wrote:
I found out that the hp loss effect from Freya (also Vincent and Leah) berserker's  skill cannot be countered with Resilience rune like the way Sven's hp loss from activating his skill can be negated with it. Also, I realized that due to the nature of the skill, lifesteal heal is also applied before the hp loss occur, effectively rendering the heal moot.

I wonder if this is deliberate design?

Hi ashen!
For the lifesteal heal, it is intended design to apply it before healing, as the HP cut is the last thing the berserker does! For the resilience issue, I'll get the team to look into it! Thanks for your feedback friend!
 
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Xinhuan
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Re: Valiants' Revamp: Final

Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:15 pm

ashenwind wrote:
Also, I realized that due to the nature of the skill, lifesteal heal is also applied before the hp loss occur, effectively rendering the heal moot.

Well, if your remaining HP is less than 25%, you want the heal to go off first, before applying the hp loss, otherwise applying the hp loss first will kill the unit.
 
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ashenwind
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Re: Valiants' Revamp: Final

Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:08 pm

Xinhuan wrote:
Well, if your remaining HP is less than 25%, you want the heal to go off first, before applying the hp loss, otherwise applying the hp loss first will kill the unit.

I would've used potion first instead :lol: But yes there is that kind of possibilities too. If it's arena, no, I'm not currently using any berserker for arena team.

MiloDinosaur wrote:
Hi ashen!
For the lifesteal heal, it is intended design to apply it before healing, as the HP cut is the last thing the berserker does! For the resilience issue, I'll get the team to look into it! Thanks for your feedback friend!


Thanks for taking this into consideration, MiloD :D. While I have some faint ideas about why resilience rune does not work for other berserkers aside from sven, it really shortened the number of way we can use to mitigate the hp loss.
 
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Silmeria
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Re: Valiants' Revamp: Final

Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:00 pm

With the current sven & talissa Nerf, is there any way to get Grand Pixies to come soon?
Or give us free grand valiant selector puhlease
 
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Gaijin
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Re: Valiants' Revamp: Final

Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:50 pm

Finally some use for shizu assassin aside from gold mine slave!
Thanks for your efforts devs!
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