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Haro
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Re: Heroes Changelog

Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:38 pm

Hi MiloD,

For the nerf on Sven abit too much, is it possible to have some kind of other nerf for him or only nerf him on arena pvp. Cause I mainly use him for Raid and PvE. With the current nerf he becomes like vegetable :(, useless. Totally Can't use him anywhere. A lot of us already use a lot of resources to max limit break him, upgrade his equipments and all. hopefully can revised the nerf on him please.
 
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KiteVII
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Re: Heroes Changelog

Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:53 pm

The devs screw up big time here. There are a lot of complains about how op he was when he was first released but they waited this long to balance him now of all time when lot of people have already spend so much resources on him.
 
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Re: Heroes Changelog

Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:59 pm

Hi, I'm a new user, a pleasure to join here...

I wanna voicing my opinion about Svenzerk nerf, somehow the nerf is a bit too much like Haro said. I summon the pet, and *poof* the pet dies at the same turn, because attack trigger that comes not only from Sven's aura, but from Ranger's aura too

and about Darrion BK, yeah, we should play around a bit with new Darrion BK. But practically his survivability is near non-existent, def buff gone, huge self leech gone.
Mathematically speaking, *cmiiw* - roughly my Darrion BK with 9k+ def will deal ~5k damage, 30% of it = ~1.5k, arena penalty 50% makes it ~750, well pretty much obsolete heal, not mention the 4 turn taunt without defense mechanism is quite dangerous in PVE
 
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Revenance
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Re: Heroes Changelog

Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:26 pm

jayle wrote:

He's not totally useless. YOU ASSUME HE'S USELESS. You want to know what's useless? Lucille Spirit Walker, that is, until her reworked come. This nerf itself isn't completely unfair. You're just flatly annoyed that the hero you loved so much has been "grounded". Like what you've said, why can't they buff it. Then my question come right back at you, why can't they nerf it? Does buffing it solve the problem? NO. Does nerfing it solve the problem? NO. SO WHY? 
You, as a player, need to have an idea of how things work. Are our pay always going up? UP? Or do you retrench? It's easier to make our pay higher? Or a pay cut for everyone? Or pay increment for everyone? At the cost of what? 
Well, my crab mentality? Wow. Here comes the personal attack. Utterly, you're one of the worst player with that stucked up attitude that can't have anything taken away from you.
"Added 75% Chance to reduce HP by 20%" to you seem like "What's the point of summoning the dragon anymore". Well, it's not my call. You can call me savage or what but ultimately, you'll gain nothing anyway from insulting me while enjoying your win, in the end, your Sven will still go through this nerf which the developer has decided and you believe is unjust, i can only say your shallowness doesn't serve any justice to any other heroes but only that 1 hero you're favoring.

What, are you offended that I'm putting  your personality into a simple term called "crab mentality"? If you're too soft and feel offended by a short, simple set of two words you need to grow up. If you can't handle the pressure of an argument then you shouldn't have started one in the first place.

You don't even need a brain to figure out Sven is now useless. The developers made this change in order to REPLACE him, not make him REPLACEABLE. There is a very significant difference between the two words that you're missing. The fact that Sven has turned into a hero that requires a very specific set-up made him useless because everyone else can simply blow him out of the park now. Why would I bring in an Sven when I can simply bring in a Vincent or Freya Berserker instead, especially when they aren't affected by any BS mechanics that the developers apparently love to come up with? But of course, you must be playing a different game so you can't see it that way.

I'm NOT asking them to buff Sven, what I'm saying is why didn't they just buff EVERYONE ELSE because the developers insist that Sven's the problem here, when the problem is that they keep thinking of releasing broken heroes and balances them when it's already too late. Nothing can upset a playerbase more than such reckless decision making they've done, and it's very easy to see that the damage has been done already. I had a lot of guildmates ending up getting screwed over by this change and are already contemplating on quitting. The facebook post and even THIS thread already show the large amount of disappointed people with this sudden change. It's upsetting not only for me but for everyone else, and if we're upset then you have no right to trample us as if our opinions don't matter because they do.

Tell me, who was the one who decided to antagonize and offend people with a different opinion than yours? Isn't that what you started with when you posted in this thread, blaming people who are upset that it was all our fault that "this" happened? Telling us that our negative feedback is "useless" because it's a natural thing to happen whenever a change occurs - it's very easy to see who's the really shallow one here.

So after answering back against you you're upset that I revealed the backwards-thinking points you've made throughout this whole argument, well tough luck you ended up revealing that yourself.

And you know what? The very fact that I'm not alone in my sentiments makes it clear it is indeed an issue that needs to be resolved. In fact, Milo's pretty much open to feedback already and would likely submit the ideas presented to the devs so they can come up with a compromise for the ongoing issue. The fact that we are being heard makes for a healthy environment in a gaming community, which is why I liked the valiant rework thread so much. It's much better than simply being directly controlled by whatever the developers would think of and releasing it without checking to see if a community would like it or hate it. 

The people who are actively making suggestions and feedback in light of recent events are much more useful than people like you who trample on other people's opinions and worship the authority like cattle.
 
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ashenwind
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Re: Heroes Changelog

Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:37 pm

So, the whole point of this argument is: people wished to play Summoner Force instead of Valiant Force.

Tough luck.

All I saw so far were whining and complaining, with only one or two posts actually suggesting something good (reducing the wyvern hp based on current HP, not max HP, or lower the hp reduce to 10%).

Does the nerf really make him fall to the bottom of the berserkers rank?

Here is the comparation.

How many turn needed for Vincent and Freya to be able to deal their burst damage: 6
How many turn needed for Sven to be able to deal his burst damage: 3
How many turn Vincent and Freya have to wait before they can cast their burst damage again: 4
How many turn Sven can summon the dragon again in case it died after the turn it was summoned: 3
Turns required for Vincent and Freya to be able to cast their burst twice: 12
Turn required for Sven to be able to use his wyvern twice: 6

Yes, he become less potent. But he's still better than his counterparts in term of dealing quick burst damage, without any need to survive for longer period of time.
Make others as quick as him? Remember that Freya and Vincent are both melee unit. They still need to get closer to their target in order to not waste their burst. Sven's Wyvern? It's a ranged unit. You can summon it anytime the skill is off cooldown, the enemy positioning doesn't matter. In fact, you don't really want Sven to be in melee range of the target because him attacking the target due to his aura triggering tend to stop the trigger combo.

Vincent and Freya offer useful aura during the burst downtime. BUT they are still slower than Sven.

Sven burst may last only for that 1 turn. But during that single turn, his wyvern has already attacked at least 5 times in a row. Enough to severely weaken (if not outright murder) most bosses on Legendary difficulty, both in story mode and event dungeon. This event boss, you can dispel the dodge and auto revive using any buff remover skill.

How many instance of damage in a single turn can vincent and freya do after their burst activated without any aid from other trigger hero?  One for vincent, and up to four for freya. By the time they are able to cast their burst, Sven can already summon his second wyvern and it may attack 5 times in a row again during a single turn.

Still thinking you can easily replace him with other berserkers?


All I'm saying is that he's still good, but not in the OP way. He now need more strategy to use, which is fitting, since this game is a strategy game.

Suggestion?

Of course. I'm not here just to whine or complain afterall.

If the dev are going to remove the hp loss when the wyvern attacks, make the wyvern to be less likely to trigger due to its own attack while inside sven's aura. Or just reduce the buff on the wyvern to 50-60% of sven's attack.

If the dev insist that there have to be limiting mechanic for the amount of triggering, you can just make it to build up stackable debuff on itself whenever it attacks, which after reaching a certain amount of stacks, will automatically consume all the stack to stun the wyvern for 1 turn or until the beginning of the next turn.

Or, reduce the attack buff on the wyvern, but give it a chance to deal 1.5x of its normal damage while at the same time damaging itself.

Edit: But yes. I do agree with the most people's opinion that this nerf should've come far earlier than this. The long period gave plenty of time for sven to grow root on playerbase. It's to be expected that people will complain if he got weakened without warning like this.
But in my honest opinion, people are also at fault to some extent for growing complacent with Sven's presence, while knowing full well that the dev will someday weaken him to preserve the so-called hard to earned balance. Know that because nerfing 1 unit is easier to do than ramping up all other units to meet up with Sven Standard. People familiar with TCG like Yu-Gi-Oh!, Magic the Gathering, or mmo like Dragon Nest, C9, TERA, or Blade and Soul should also be familiar with this method balancing.
 
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Re: Heroes Changelog

Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:18 am

The furor here is a case in point of an earlier post I made about how (a) it needs to be made clearer whether players ought to expect existing heroes to be made obsolete and (b) important it is to properly communicate big changes to and manage expectations of the player base. Ideally, I guess we would like at least one of each class to be in a good spot like say, Faye. 

While I think most of us knew a nerf/adjustment to Sven would be coming (and Talissa WL's pet) , given how Sven forms such an integral part of the game at the moment, it might have been a better idea to pre-empt the player base and discuss beforehand just like with the Valiant Revamp. Rest assured not everyone who is unhappy will bother to post on forums. 

Furthermore, we all know that it takes time to fully gear out a hero, let alone a full team, especially for F2P or light spenders. I still haven't fully completed either my archer trigger team (although Gwen will complete it) or my SDD team (still missing another fully trained life leech hero). This is thanks to RNG plus how resources will get diverted here and there in response to the latest heroes and events. 

In the meantime, other than to use a life leech aura, are there other ways to keep Sven's pet alive? Perhaps one of the new talents or auras? Although it shouldn't be a Valiant-exclusive ability as Valiants are not that easy to obtain. I'm still slowly digesting the changes... didn't have time to try out everything yet. 
 
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Re: Heroes Changelog

Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:24 am

Lightwind wrote:
The furor here is a case in point of an earlier post I made about how (a) it needs to be made clearer whether players ought to expect existing heroes to be made obsolete and (b) important it is to properly communicate big changes to and manage expectations of the player base. Ideally, I guess we would like at least one of each class to be in a good spot like say, Faye. 

While I think most of us knew a nerf/adjustment to Sven would be coming (and Talissa WL's pet) , given how Sven forms such an integral part of the game at the moment, it might have been a better idea to pre-empt the player base and discuss beforehand just like with the Valiant Revamp. Rest assured not everyone who is unhappy will bother to post on forums.

In the meantime, other than to use a life leech aura, are there other ways to keep Sven's pet alive? Perhaps one of the new talents or auras? Although it shouldn't be a Valiant-exclusive ability as Valiants are not that easy to obtain. I'm still slowly digesting the changes... didn't have time to try out everything yet. 

 Yeah, as I stated in my earlier post, I agree that the nerfing is too sudden and came without warning. And should've been coming as early as few weeks after sven's release. But it took the dev more than 2 months before doing it. This is the root of the problem actually.

On my experiences on other games, once it was found that some element of the game is too OP, usually it will be nerfed pretty quickly (the longest being 3 months), While most of the times arrived without warning, some people still expect it anyway. They make use of the op-ness, but prepared alternative path because they know it won't last. This is what should've been the player's approach to Sven zerker.

But, it took this long for the nerf to rise. I can't really blame other players for lowering their guard. It just happened. That's all.

About keeping the wyvern alive. I think you should first think about what you want to use the wyvern for: quick burst of damaging attack triggers, or auxiliary firepower and the huge damage at the end of the wyvern's atk buff. If it's the former, the only way would be to make use lifesteal aura, or casts Theia's auto revive buff on it, or just protect it with Faye's shield. It will prolong the wyvern's lifespan and trigger rate.

If it's the latter, then you can just place the wyvern away from sven, so it will live long enough to launch the sacrifice skill, while at the same time still capable of throwing some strong covering fire albeit not as fierce as if you place it next to sven.

If you want the mix of both, I think you can just use the wyvern as the core dps part of an SDD team. SDD being SDD, it's only good for raids and small amount of hard to kill bosses. But the better part of it is that you don't need to walk forward in order to make full use of it against bosses with starting positions that is slightly away from your team.

Edit: in the meantime, I have another suggestion concerning Sven. If devs decided to remove the hp loss/attack, please reduce the wyvern initial attack to the point it doesn't overcome sven's own attack. That way, the wyvern will only act as 'a second sven' but with ranged attack. Still maintaining that ranged attacker with a champion's damage outlook. In exchange, ramp up the buff given to sven when the wyvern sacrifice itself. As it is now, the buff from the the wyvern is low compared to other berserker (I know it's to balance out the fact that Sven's damage burst come much faster than others). With the wyvern weakened attack stat, it should be a fair trade off if sven is greatly buffed after the wyvern use its skill.

On second thought, I think the dev can keep the hp loss/attack and only boost the attack buff given to sven when the wyvern uses its skill. That way, players have wider option on what to use the wyvern for. Quick suicide bomber, or buffer with occasional high damage.
Last edited by ashenwind on Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Heroes Changelog

Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:58 am

Revenance wrote:
jayle wrote:

He's not totally useless. YOU ASSUME HE'S USELESS. You want to know what's useless? Lucille Spirit Walker, that is, until her reworked come. This nerf itself isn't completely unfair. You're just flatly annoyed that the hero you loved so much has been "grounded". Like what you've said, why can't they buff it. Then my question come right back at you, why can't they nerf it? Does buffing it solve the problem? NO. Does nerfing it solve the problem? NO. SO WHY? 
You, as a player, need to have an idea of how things work. Are our pay always going up? UP? Or do you retrench? It's easier to make our pay higher? Or a pay cut for everyone? Or pay increment for everyone? At the cost of what? 
Well, my crab mentality? Wow. Here comes the personal attack. Utterly, you're one of the worst player with that stucked up attitude that can't have anything taken away from you.
"Added 75% Chance to reduce HP by 20%" to you seem like "What's the point of summoning the dragon anymore". Well, it's not my call. You can call me savage or what but ultimately, you'll gain nothing anyway from insulting me while enjoying your win, in the end, your Sven will still go through this nerf which the developer has decided and you believe is unjust, i can only say your shallowness doesn't serve any justice to any other heroes but only that 1 hero you're favoring.

What, are you offended that I'm putting  your personality into a simple term called "crab mentality"? If you're too soft and feel offended by a short, simple set of two words you need to grow up. If you can't handle the pressure of an argument then you shouldn't have started one in the first place.

You don't even need a brain to figure out Sven is now useless. The developers made this change in order to REPLACE him, not make him REPLACEABLE. There is a very significant difference between the two words that you're missing. The fact that Sven has turned into a hero that requires a very specific set-up made him useless because everyone else can simply blow him out of the park now. Why would I bring in an Sven when I can simply bring in a Vincent or Freya Berserker instead, especially when they aren't affected by any BS mechanics that the developers apparently love to come up with? But of course, you must be playing a different game so you can't see it that way.

I'm NOT asking them to buff Sven, what I'm saying is why didn't they just buff EVERYONE ELSE because the developers insist that Sven's the problem here, when the problem is that they keep thinking of releasing broken heroes and balances them when it's already too late. Nothing can upset a playerbase more than such reckless decision making they've done, and it's very easy to see that the damage has been done already. I had a lot of guildmates ending up getting screwed over by this change and are already contemplating on quitting. The facebook post and even THIS thread already show the large amount of disappointed people with this sudden change. It's upsetting not only for me but for everyone else, and if we're upset then you have no right to trample us as if our opinions don't matter because they do.

Tell me, who was the one who decided to antagonize and offend people with a different opinion than yours? Isn't that what you started with when you posted in this thread, blaming people who are upset that it was all our fault that "this" happened? Telling us that our negative feedback is "useless" because it's a natural thing to happen whenever a change occurs - it's very easy to see who's the really shallow one here.

So after answering back against you you're upset that I revealed the backwards-thinking points you've made throughout this whole argument, well tough luck you ended up revealing that yourself.

And you know what? The very fact that I'm not alone in my sentiments makes it clear it is indeed an issue that needs to be resolved. In fact, Milo's pretty much open to feedback already and would likely submit the ideas presented to the devs so they can come up with a compromise for the ongoing issue. The fact that we are being heard makes for a healthy environment in a gaming community, which is why I liked the valiant rework thread so much. It's much better than simply being directly controlled by whatever the developers would think of and releasing it without checking to see if a community would like it or hate it. 

The people who are actively making suggestions and feedback in light of recent events are much more useful than people like you who trample on other people's opinions and worship the authority like cattle.


Hey bro. I think there is a serious misinterpretation and understanding between us. But first, please calm down and read this post and the first post of mine with an open mind.
I reiterate this, I am definitely someone who is the same as you, who hate nerf. Especially when we invested in heroes that have their glory right from the moment they were born with. But the reason why I am defensive has probably caused you and several people to misunderstand my intention. Also, I am partly to blame for not trying clear this in the first place.. although I tried but I'm sure when we are heated up, we overlooked what we are trying to achieve.

I'm not sure how my very first and initial post trigger you because it was extremely clear, my intention as i have stated, is not to diss or say "serve you guys right". I really don't know how you conclude that I am "happy" about this nerf. If anything, i am agreeable but i may or may not be happy about it. I believe i have never express any of this throughout my post. What I wanted to say is every hero or whatever hero, as long as a game is constantly updating, there will be changes, that's why I say "should have expect it".

Changes are balancing game. It's just like what you say. Why cant they buff everyone? I myself also have the capacity to think the easiest way out. It's either you push everyone up to the same playing field or you pull down the benchmark which in this case, the developer decided to implement both because this gap between the summoners and normal heroes is too wide, they boosted heroes and pull down the top tier units.
Before I comment, I asked myself is it necessary to implement such a harsh condition on this bread and butter DPS?
And you've already realised it before i mention it. It's because Sven is one of the hero that does not need to rely on other to trigger and the reason why many people pick him: he is very flexible (he is a one man army standing in for 2 roles - trigger dps and sweeping) to the point that he's broken because he doesn't have to be pair with anyone, he's a solo triggerer as long as he can summon wyvern, he can trigger his wyvern (range) to finish those he couldn't reach or lower the HP enough for other units to one shot. Overall, he is the most ideal unit to be able to deal damage to the far end units without even moving.
What draws the line between him and the other triggering units like the rangers is his flexibility. But in order for rangers to trigger they require 3 conditions (chances, stats, another compatible hero) whereas Sven only require 2: the chances and his wyvern positioning. This itself is undoubtly the defining moment between your difficult to invest Rangers (which you need a minimum of 2 proper equip units to achieve) compared to a single trigger unit like Sven because you don't have to invest in 2 rangers but 1.
When the developer first introduce Sven, I was delighted because I saved 1 slot. This 1 slot is what causes all these commotion. But if you refer back to my first post as to why I say "we should expect this" is because this character's nature already defies the initial intention of tactical gameplay which comprises of different units to come up with a proper formation.
What conforms a tactical game when VF was first introduced? Has Sven achieved what VF envisaged?

I applaud the effort for the developers even though like what you've mentioned that I seem to bootlick or worship the cattle, is because I like how creative they are to come up with Summoners mechanic. But because it's a first, it's new, there are bound to have many underlying factors or future problems which we couldnt see (again, I can't emphasis how important it is to look ahead from here). Perhaps I'm in a profession that requires constant look out. I'm a project coordinator with an Engineering background. I design for the worst case scenario. I always searching for solutions and an alternative for the what-if situation. I'm trained to look for possible structural failure be it present or future but I'm not perfect because I'm only human, I don't know when a fire will break out in London Grenfell Tower or how the aluminium plastic cladding cause the whole building to be engulfed in flame. I make mistske. So we can only experiment with elimination, mitigation and substitution. It's tiring to always be on the toes but it's our jobs to safeguard the owners. I'm so used to it that maybe this nerf doesn't seem to affect me like how it affect all of you because I'm all prepared for the netf. Like you say, my thinking has been dulled which I agree. I'm so used to it and tired of explaining safety features and designs to owners to safeguard them, only to get shot down because it's extra cost to safeguard their lives or the designs are just plain atrocious but so be it. We tried our best and we are prepared to face the consequences but we just don't know when. Even then something bad happens we still get part of the blame anyway. Maybe we didn't try hard enough. Or maybe our jobs are meant to take blame. Just like what these game developers are experiencing. Just like what our SMRT engineers are experiencing. We are constantly getting bashed endlessly to the point that we became dull and ask ourselves why we even try in the first place. But in the end, it is still for you all that we are still trying hoping that one day, you guys can see us like the way we see you all.
In this case, from the moment Sven was released, there's a constant fear of him being nerf but why do I still bother building him is because although I invested in him, i don't wish to say I wasted my resources on a unit that would undoubtly be nerfed in the future.
Why? Because I know that when every hero reaches the pit bottom, it is the duty of the developers to pick them up. How can I be so sure? Valiant revamp. Heroes changelog. And we could see most heroes are buff at the price of Talissa and Sven nerf. But from my view, it created a levelled playing field. Now we have to fork out a fodder lifesteal unit into the formation and like one of the players have mentioned, it doesn't diversify but narrow down the option which I have to disagree because we have a few units that come with life leech and healing aura. Although they don't won't worth much now, but by incorporating their units into your service, you will be able to appreciate the other units more. This is what the developers want: to diversify by limiting yourself and find another unit to coexist with the unit you love.
I love all the characters in the game. When I first invested in Lucille, I have a witch doctor while everyone gets an inquisitor even though she's a godsend unit in pve. My 2nd Lucille i ride along an Archbishop role when I could have chosen Inquisitor. Again, I try to explore the use of other units and I came to realise that although Inquisitor is very good in PvE, AB has a constant HoT which makes up for her single heal mechanic. I am not trying to glorify myself or ask you all to follow my playstyle. Personally, I just like tactic games. But I felt that it's the responsibility of the players to devote themselves to explore the usage of other units that the developers have given but often, covered in dust. I have Royal Huntsman Cybella and Kane when they were so close to extinction. I have a high defender Darrion which is nothing more than just a tank. But overall, I come up with different ideas on how to incorporate them into my services.

Anyway, it's fine how you all want to think. I'm not a good person in many people's eyes. It's fine if you think I'm sitting here laughing at you. Honestly speaking, there's nothing I can achieve here. I'm just wasting time explaining myself. But for the sake of making this discussion fruitful and debatable, I decided to just draw a line here. I'm done.
Last edited by jayle on Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.
 
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uratex16
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Re: Heroes Changelog

Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:57 am

On top of the irrational nerf, what rubbed more salt on the wound was the fact that it was a ninja nerf. Sure they did tease a balancing of some sort of other heroes but no, that vague statemen does not count.

Remember the summoner era on arena? They released a good dev blog on it. Asked opinions from the community, explored several options. Why can't they do the same for Sven BSK, Faye HD, Talissa WL (insert nerfd hero name here)?


A nerf for Sven IS justifiable but not with the extreme sort of what they did. The increase cooldown is fine. Or what have others suggested since the archer trigger meta, a diminishing attack per trigger. Whatever.

Pair with a life steal aura? Lmao.
 
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Re: Heroes Changelog

Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:41 am

ashenwind wrote:
Lightwind wrote:
The furor here is a case in point of an earlier post I made about how (a) it needs to be made clearer whether players ought to expect existing heroes to be made obsolete and (b) important it is to properly communicate big changes to and manage expectations of the player base. Ideally, I guess we would like at least one of each class to be in a good spot like say, Faye. 

While I think most of us knew a nerf/adjustment to Sven would be coming (and Talissa WL's pet) , given how Sven forms such an integral part of the game at the moment, it might have been a better idea to pre-empt the player base and discuss beforehand just like with the Valiant Revamp. Rest assured not everyone who is unhappy will bother to post on forums.

In the meantime, other than to use a life leech aura, are there other ways to keep Sven's pet alive? Perhaps one of the new talents or auras? Although it shouldn't be a Valiant-exclusive ability as Valiants are not that easy to obtain. I'm still slowly digesting the changes... didn't have time to try out everything yet. 

 Yeah, as I stated in my earlier post, I agree that the nerfing is too sudden and came without warning. And should've been coming as early as few weeks after sven's release. But it took the dev more than 2 months before doing it. This is the root of the problem actually.

On my experiences on other games, once it was found that some element of the game is too OP, usually it will be nerfed pretty quickly (the longest being 3 months), While most of the times arrived without warning, some people still expect it anyway. They make use of the op-ness, but prepared alternative path because they know it won't last. This is what should've been the player's approach to Sven zerker.

But, it took this long for the nerf to rise. I can't really blame other players for lowering their guard. It just happened. That's all.

About keeping the wyvern alive. I think you should first think about what you want to use the wyvern for: quick burst of damaging attack triggers, or auxiliary firepower and the huge damage at the end of the wyvern's atk buff. If it's the former, the only way would be to make use lifesteal aura, or casts Theia's auto revive buff on it, or just protect it with Faye's shield. It will prolong the wyvern's lifespan and trigger rate.

If it's the latter, then you can just place the wyvern away from sven, so it will live long enough to launch the sacrifice skill, while at the same time still capable of throwing some strong covering fire albeit not as fierce as if you place it next to sven.

If you want the mix of both, I think you can just use the wyvern as the core dps part of an SDD team. SDD being SDD, it's only good for raids and small amount of hard to kill bosses. But the better part of it is that you don't need to walk forward in order to make full use of it against bosses with starting positions that is slightly away from your team.

Edit: in the meantime, I have another suggestion concerning Sven. If devs decided to remove the hp loss/attack, please reduce the wyvern initial attack to the point it doesn't overcome sven's own attack. That way, the wyvern will only act as 'a second sven' but with ranged attack. Still maintaining that ranged attacker with a champion's damage outlook. In exchange, ramp up the buff given to sven when the wyvern sacrifice itself. As it is now, the buff from the the wyvern is low compared to other berserker (I know it's to balance out the fact that Sven's damage burst come much faster than others). With the wyvern weakened attack stat, it should be a fair trade off if sven is greatly buffed after the wyvern use its skill.

On second thought, I think the dev can keep the hp loss/attack and only boost the attack buff given to sven when the wyvern uses its skill. That way, players have wider option on what to use the wyvern for. Quick suicide bomber, or buffer with occasional high damage.


Why should Sven be nerfed to the extend that he is the only summoner whose pet you have to choose between what you want to do with it ("quick burst of damaging attack triggers, or auxiliary firepower and the huge damage at the end of the wyvern's atk buff") when it has been doing those things fine all these months?

Why should Sven be nerfed to the extend that he is the only hero that needs to be babysitted for him to do the work of what he was already doing?

Now every team that consists of Sven needs to include a babysitter, because otherwise he'll just not be able to perform to his normal standard. That's such a cheap way to kill off a unit!

Why is he singled out like that? Just for being the best? Why not slap the 20% HP reduction on every dps or the trigger archers especially and tell them that for them to trigger now they must break their formation and bring in some babysitters?

This game is all about the triggering and the devs themselves have always been hesitant to impose any arbitrary limits on the triggers (look how trigger archers are still around since the beginning of time) and yet with this single change on Sven, they basically imposed a limit on how much he (his pet) can trigger (oh you can trigger as much as you want still, just bring along a babysitter! What? Why?)

Sven was not the only unit getting nerfed in this patch. But he's the most complained unit. Why? Because everyone here is a crybaby or whining like you said in your previous post?

It's because with that one single change, the devs changed the way Sven needs to be played and basically just said that if you want Sven to perform to his old normal standard please bring along a babysitter to watch over him.

Nobody here thinks that Sven is not OP. He is! But the way he's nerfed basically just singled him out.

Talissa is also nerfed but did that change how we play her? No.

Faye is also nerfed but did that change how we play her? No!

And this, coming so many months after he was released. How much have they whaled him for?