User avatar
ashenwind
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Arena Heroes Revamp

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:57 am

whodahackii wrote:
Ranger squad are only active between 4600-4900, when you reached top 50 (or minimal of 5000 points, it will be guardian heaven)

The journey to that 4900 is a long one though. (not everyone is capable to do that)
Under 4600, you'll still meet more squad with rangers in it more than a full squad of tanks (let alone those who has more than 2 percival set), And as I previously implied, with smart use of quick cd skills (which Aden has) and all enemies targeting skills which has 5 or less cd (which Siena and several other heroes have), it's pretty easy to deal with resilience.
All you need is be strategic a little and don't use auto battle :lol:
 
User avatar
Xinhuan
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:25 am

Re: Arena Heroes Revamp

Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:12 pm

whodahackii wrote:
Ranger squad are only active between 4600-4900, when you reached top 50 (or minimal of 5000 points, it will be guardian heaven)

This so much. There are more tank teams in the top 100 than ranger teams. If anything, the game needs more anti-tank tools, and currently ranger squads are one of the very few ways to beat tanks that aren't TPed too heavily. I queue into tanks quads more often than ranger squads - that is, I see tanks squads as the problem, not ranger squads.

Also 5000 tokens is too pricey for arena heroes. I'm willing to bet more than half of all players have 0 arena heroes and most of the remainder only have 1 (and it's probably Aden). Especially for newer players, an arena hero isn't worth 5/7 of a Valiant, given the extremely niche use of arena heroes. The thing is, it is more difficult to MLB an arena hero than a non-arena hero, so people would just rather use a level 40 non-arena hero than a level 32 arena hero and a huge part of this is their overpricing. If you reduce arena heroes to 3500, people will actually consider 2 arena heroes vs 1 valiant for each month. The nerfed BK Aden isn't worth 5000.

Arena heroes shouldn't be harder to get than Valiants - that is, players get a free Valiant every month (plus any from lucky pulls). Why not add something like giving away a monthly free arena hero ticket for playing 300 arena matches each month (10 a day)? Accessibility is important, and we want to encourage players to play the arena.

TLDR: Need anti-tank tools (no, -def for 2 turns isn't anti-tank when only your next moving unit can take advantage of it, or when it can be resisted), arena heroes overpriced given their niche use, arena heroes harder to get than valiants, arena heroes skillset are too niche (eg only countering trigger rangers).
 
User avatar
Bansky
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:41 pm

Re: Arena Heroes Revamp

Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:44 pm

Good job. Hero revamp should be done on a regular basis.  Instead of introducing more and more powerful heroes, devs should focus more first on balancing all heroes across the board.  Approximately 75% of all 5* potential heroes are obsolete now. This discourages a lot of players from summoning from the premium pool because of the high probability that they will be getting a useless hero.
 
User avatar
TFlames
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: Arena Heroes Revamp

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:41 pm

I've been waiting for a revamp on the Arena Heroes for a long time since they seemed really lackluster as compared to the normal heroes you can get through premium rolls. Added the fact that they require 4000 or 5000 blood gems, there is barely a reason to get any of the arena heroes, when a valiant is in the market as well. Also, being obtainable this way meant that it's considerably harder to MLB or MTT them as compared to other heroes, possibly even Valiants, since there are multiple ways to get them and are available without competition or resources.

That being said, I'm not convinced with some of the changes.

Aden Blood Knight
He's kit became even less of protecting then he was before. "Protecting" could mean two things here, killing an enemy before they can do much against you, or protecting your allies from potential death against enemy attacks... And this current Aden is not going to be able to do either, unless it's against a ranger trigger team. Here's why:

His damage potential is drastically reduced now. Before it was a total of 200% HP damage, that seemed a bit too strong and it was fine to reduce it to what it is currently. However, this proposed revamp reduced it even further by only dealing damage once as well as lowering the damage dealt. Now the total damage goes from 200% to 160% to 70%.

A normal, lvl 30 Aden, fully geared for HP and no talent points would allow him to comfortably get 20-22k HP, at 70% HP, thats only 14,000 - 15,400 magic damage. After damage mitigation from DEF and MAG, it would only be dealing around 6-8k against rangers. Also, since it's HP based, Aden will not be able to increase that damage any higher with buffs as compared to other heroes, making him one of the more underwhelming heroes in terms of damage.


Silence Aura may seem good at first in Arena, but given the CD of the skill, by the time he uses his skill, the enemy will start spamming skills rather then relying on normal attacks and auras, especially with ranger trigger teams, where their skills generally have CD around 4 turns as well and is able to CC teams to death.

Moving on to his aura, it only works against trigger teams where they can attack more then 1 time in a round as booth the bleed and the debuff only affects for 2 turns, making it entirely useless to any other heroes as they are unable to act after they have bleed anyway.

Would his ATK debuff stack with itself? I sure hope it can. But even so, the ATK debuff will barely save anyone. A 20%-60% atk debuff will only really affect the high ATK heroes such as Sharpshooters and Champions and those tend to only attack once in a round. It could help to shut down those crit based trigger rangers for a while, but even so, they would have already killed at least 1 of your units, if they are not tanks. These makes the ATK debuff less useful as compared to the DEF boost Aden had before as the DEF boost helps to prevent ALL damage against the ally as well as redirect the AI's interests to another unit....Also it helps to boost DEF based tanks skills.

The bleed helps to quickly dispose of a ranger trigger team, but just them. All in all Aden Blood Knight, with the current proposed revamp made him into an extremely niche hero, where he only excels against a trigger team. In Arena, that by itself is a bad thing to have as we dont really know who we are up against, making it a gamble to bring him along.

Ellis Elementalist
Any improvements to Ellis is welcomed, however, she still seem lackluster as compared to any other heroes. Her aura must have her be hit, which is already a risky thing to rely on as mystics are generally squishy. Also the long CD places her in the same problems as any mystics have to deal with, surviving until she can cast it.

Kira Assassin
While Kira's Active skill seem to be considerably weaker, the 4CD and new aura makes up for it. He also could focus more on his ATK after capping his CRIT to increase his overall damage, with his skill. It does, however, put him in a dangerous spot as he is vulnerable until his skill is ready, and even more so if he stealths his allies. Assassins being extremely squishy, it's questionable to see if this helps him get better at all.


Leah Berserker
I have nothing much to say about her, the 2 turn stun does put her in a better light, but again, in arena, it does not amount to much, as 2 turns would go off in a  flash. Also anyone attacking her would already be using up their turns (unless, again, trigger teams). I actually find Leah Berserker to be a good hero to use even before this revamp, being an AoE Berserker and counter. As compared to her Warlord counterpart


Siena Inquisitor
...I am not sure which direction Siena is heading towards...She is now placed in a very weird spot and feels a lot better in a PVE setting then a PVP one.

Siena Inquisitor was a defensively buffing healer before, but that doesnt help much due to the 7 CD. A lot of other healers and heroes can already do so much better then her as well.

However now, her CD is reduced to 5 and it affects all units for various effects. It helps to clear off resilience in the enemy team and provide a moment of respite for your team as you prepare your next attack, but only for your next attack. It also only heals back your party, not providing any additional defenses for a one shot kill most skills tend to have. A 15% amplify and 20% ATK buff isnt that great in PVP especially if it's 2 turns, it will only benefit 1 unit or a trigger team.

That, in a PVE setting, is leagues better as everyone is able to act in a turn, making the skill more useful there.

Her kit also seems less focused as she provides MAG boost and ATK boost, a very weird combination as heroes will either use one or the other, not both. MAG for Healers and Mystics and ATK for almost every other. As a means to mitigate some magic damage, it also fails as the first few turns in PVP are all physical damage as there are no skills ready.

The only method of protecting the party before her skill comes would be through her aura healing, which is also not strong enough, especially in PVP. 20% healing in PVP means 10% healing....which, for 10k MAG (which is extremely difficult thing to accomplish) only accounts to 1k healing per turn, unless you are running a tank team, the 1k healing wont mean much, Also, if she is used with a tank team, the MAG and ATK buffs would be less effective as well.

Thus for an Arena hero to have this revamp, to me, feels a bit weird to be less useful in a PVP setting as compared to a PVE setting. Her kit also feels like a mess, trying to be useful in a way to any tea, but ends up being horrible at any as she is too spread out in her utility. Allow her to focus on one thing, not try to have her do everything, at a diminished rate. Every turn in Arena is extremely important, if a unit is unable to produce a strong enough effect to overturn a situation in a turn, they wont be as useful in Arena at all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The revamp seems to be pretty focused on beating the Cancer (Trigger Team). But the bigger problem in Arena are the Tanks... which can be nigh indestructible, Double Faye, Swappers and Lucille are still very strong in Arena and very difficult to beat, even with Rune Magi and their knockbacks. There are very few things one can do against such a team other then to try and kill one or two before they can start using skills. You are unable to capture the tiles if the swappers are there. You are unable to kill if the Fayes and Lucille starts using their skills. If you bring along 1 cleanser, you'll still rarely find an opening to deal a sliver of damage against them. Also Chaos Knight Swappers can potentially kill with their high DEF for their skills and moderately high ATK, thanks to their Aura.

Due to the change to magic damage calculation to take into account of DEF into it, Thanks have grown to a much stronger force to be reckon with, as even magic damage isnt going to deal much damage to them, even less so with their much higher HP.
Last edited by TFlames on Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Silmeria
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:41 pm

Re: Arena Heroes Revamp

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:07 pm

+1 to anti-tank mechanic
I want to see diversity on class rather than seeing all ranger and all tank squad. Rhea can bring back champions but she's still not enough to counter tanks.
I think these anti-ranger heroes are enough to counter ranger tanks given the correct setting.

We haven't seen all of the revamp and I hope the rest of arena heroes can bring back something to counter tanks.

Other suggestion would be to decrease tile point obtainable from +3 +4 +3 to +2 +3 +2
But it's not much related to the revamp so I'll just stop here.
 
User avatar
Munilet
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 218
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:21 am
Location: Java

Re: Arena Heroes Revamp

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:38 pm

No love for Leah Warlord?
T T
 
User avatar
MiloDinosaur
Valiant Administrator
Valiant Administrator
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: Arena Heroes Revamp

Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:01 pm

Hey guys,

Really happy to be receiving this much feedback! We are excited to hear more from you guys!
 
User avatar
Xinhuan
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:25 am

Re: Arena Heroes Revamp

Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:50 am

Well, if you want to see diversity in the arena, I will suggest enforcing the suggestion made nearly a year ago to restrict arena squads to bringing at most 2 of each class.

The best time to change arena mechanics, is when you're revamping the heroes at the same time to account for it.
 
User avatar
Bansky
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:41 pm

Re: Arena Heroes Revamp

Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:41 am

Xinhuan wrote:
Well, if you want to see diversity in the arena, I will suggest enforcing the suggestion made nearly a year ago to restrict arena squads to bringing at most 2 of each class.

The best time to change arena mechanics, is when you're revamping the heroes at the same time to account for it.

Completely agree with this. This will easily solve all balancing issues regarding arena.
 
User avatar
Hungshu
Official Member
Official Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:26 am

Re: Arena Heroes Revamp

Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:08 pm

Man if Kiera Elementis skill is 5 CD this would be perfect
My Zoey > Kiera > Ellis
Well her aura look nice though
Since I use Zoey Warlock, it nice to have other unit that can stop ranger