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Xinhuan
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Re: Insignias

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:54 pm

Summary of above 2 posts:

1. Resources required to develop a hero fully is ever increasing. At first, it's just gear + runes + limit break. Now we have added Talent Points, and Insignias.

2. Resources we can earn in game every 3 weeks is NOT increasing in comparison. The gold mine still gives the same amount as a year ago, capitol still the same, hero summon rates still the same. At the same time, the rate of new heroes being released are also not slowing down - it has remained constant at 1 new hero every 3 weeks (and in fact doubled to 2 new heroes every 3 weeks during the release of the 6 Elves). The recently added Talent Dungeon helps to offset the costs of developing a hero, but it isn't much, it only gives 0.6 TP a day or 12 TP every 3 weeks.

We have more options now to build better heroes (hero merge, rune merge, pixies, etc) but all these extra options use even more resources because of the costs of using them.

Conclusion: Addition of Insignias is seen as a negative because scarce resources are stretched even more thinly.
 
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Sonny6166
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Re: Insignias

Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:30 am

woah new mechanic..... again

why not fix all the bugs first and balanced out all the heroes before doing this foreseeable mad resource and gold needed thingy..........

please ==we've been yelling for all these below average hero to get a rework, not turning them into equipment.....

this is definitely not how you make weak hero useful...
 
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Jaeger
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Re: Insignias

Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:16 am

Is this a joke? Another thing that require large amount of job keys, really?

Players complain about amount of job keys needed is too much, now we get this?
How about just use 1-2 5*-able(3*-4* job also counted) hero for insignia, isn't that already enough if you want player to use their unused hero?
I mean I get it, we going to have INSIGNIA BUNDLE for sure.

If you want to please veteran players, it's anything but this addition grind wall.
 
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ashenwind
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Re: Insignias

Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:15 pm

Uhh..


even if we use hero merge to lighten the burden of job relic use, max training +2 unused hero still takes quite some amount of resources. Not to mention the need to raise the TP too..

IF there is no need for us players to build new squad to contend with new contents, then I'm all for this feature. But raid 2 basically forces everyone to build one or two more specialized squads just to deal with the 3 bosses.

So, no thanks. I may be able to get one insignia, but no way I'll have enough to outfit 5 heroes. Not to mention limit breaking one..  At least not anytime soon. Maybe even never will.

If this feature come up after everything has been settled down a bit, maybe I won't be complaining here.

+1 to all those replies above who are against this feature (one way or another)
+1 to all those suggestion to reduce job relic required to raise heroes

In hindsight, if you guys are really going implement this thing, do reduce the job relic requirement, or increase the drop rate of 4* soul binder when the come around so we can make use of them reliably, or increase the drop amount of TP dungeon (3 Talent Sprites on legend and 4-5 on hard will be very helpful). Or maybe all three combined! ("Dream on girl! Hahaha" is probably the result I'll get, but well, I've got nothing to lose xp)
 
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Cassiel
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Re: Insignias

Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:26 pm

Xinhuan wrote:
Summary of above 2 posts:

1. Resources required to develop a hero fully is ever increasing. At first, it's just gear + runes + limit break. Now we have added Talent Points, and Insignias.

2. Resources we can earn in game every 3 weeks is NOT increasing in comparison. The gold mine still gives the same amount as a year ago, capitol still the same, hero summon rates still the same. At the same time, the rate of new heroes being released are also not slowing down - it has remained constant at 1 new hero every 3 weeks (and in fact doubled to 2 new heroes every 3 weeks during the release of the 6 Elves). The recently added Talent Dungeon helps to offset the costs of developing a hero, but it isn't much, it only gives 0.6 TP a day or 12 TP every 3 weeks.

We have more options now to build better heroes (hero merge, rune merge, pixies, etc) but all these extra options use even more resources because of the costs of using them.

Conclusion: Addition of Insignias is seen as a negative because scarce resources are stretched even more thinly.


As a player who has played VF since Nov last year, i agree with you. I think we have very limited resources even for spenders. Everything in VF takes very long time to build. This becomes VF's known characteristic. But I do not see any reason to make it even more difficult to players than it is.

After the talent system was introduced up until now, I'm pretty sure less than 1% of players reaches end game content (where they complete everything and have nothing else to do). So I do not see the necessity to create more end game content.

I think the devs have to be very be careful when designing new feature. It may be designed in a way that end game players will always have something to do. But if players get into your game and get the impression that they will never achieve half of end game content even in a year time, it will have double edge effect and drive away players from VF.

I think it's also important to make the game environment friendly not stressful for players. The devs had better put themselves into players' shoes and see if this insignia feature will make players enjoyed or depressed. Not just thinking about how to make players taking the longest time for this new feature.

I feel the devs are slowly losing the original concept they had when VF as young. I always like this game coz it allows work life balance, not so grindy and not force spending. It becomes more time consuming with each new contents released (e.g. abyssal gate and raid 2). One of long time members quit 2 months ago saying he does not like the way VF is heading to (1 event after he got Zoey from ladder). I start to have this same feeling too.

You have done well building a good game for almost a year. Do not start killing your own game with your very own hand. That's the last thing I add.
 
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rvm1975
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Re: Insignias

Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:24 pm

+1 to Xinhuan

I am not old player/veteran like him but I am prestige 15 player and my rate of talenting is 34 per month. Really don't understand who is primary target for this game feature.

2nd foddering is annoying in terms of time spending. I do not like to spend my time for doing such stupid things like buy 100 heroes, fodder them, train with potion, do it again. Usually I do that on Sundays during bonus time but it is annoying.

3rd I lack phoenixes. I have 4 leons to finish talenting my BK, 6 ronans for talent fodder, 4 vincents but 0 phoenixes. Also I prepared enough relics and gold but - see the 2nd.
 
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Silmeria
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Re: Insignias

Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:12 am

I regularly train my heroes and I have 20+ theias trained to +2 to get phoenix hatchlings. Currently I have 33 hatchlings but I think they will be used with the current pace, where a new hero is introduced every 3 weeks, not to count that there is more than 1 path, and with raid 2; you need more heroes built specificly for them.

This insignia system looks like a really bad resource sink. Just like soul Meisters when they're introduced.

If I'm allowed to give input, to make this feature decent you need to change these things :

1. Reduce Job Relic Requirement for all heroes to be 10 to advance to 4-star, and 30 to advance to 5-star.
Another option is to keep the relic requirement, but give everyone 10 extra job key daily.

2. Training 5-star hero to +2 costs A LOT. If you dont want to sacrifice phoenix hatchlings, you need to sacrifice gold instead and it's not in a low number. So, to make insignia I suggest to only require 5-star hero at +0.
Also, using hero with TP to be sacrificed is really a ridiculous idea. I've played this game for 10 months and until this moment, I have no hero with max TP.
That would explain why sacrificing hero with TP is an awful idea.

3. Don't make insignia stat specific to a hero.
For example, when you use Zedd, you get +150 mag. But when you use Talissa, you get 200 mag.
Max Limit Breaking a hero is hard enough, if you need a specific hero to make a specific built insignia, it will only frustrate people more.
Why are you guys developing a game heavily based on RNG? We want to play a game, not a gamble.

--Onto the topic, I suggest to make insignia variation specific to class only, so we can sacrifice genesis heroes instead of sacrificing rare heroes.
 
shirokane
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Re: Insignias

Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:15 am

Seems Ill be the only one with a different opinion here, as new features that are not just to make players life easier or are grind based are always "the end of the world".

Agree this is not an intended feature for new players, however guys you have to understand that 99% of gatcha games are progression based, offering new mechanics each X months as resource sink so older players keep playing. Some of them open new servers each 2 weeks (a feature also despited for most players) so teh new features are not a problem for new players and they can catch up..
The moment you stop giving long term goals (like insignias) the game also dies cause theres nothing else to do, TP is no longer a goal probably for most whales/old players so they need a new goal to sustain the game, because yeah whales are probably paying for like 80% of this game, like in every mobile FtP title...

It's always the same, theyll add a new feature, like they did with Tp, then after  a couple months theyll mitigate it with something (like Tp dungeon) and the cycle starts again, and again...

So I welcome the insignias as any other late game goal, because they give something to do, something to aim, however Xn and others are right, you guys need to lower key requirements or give more as daily basis.
 
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Sonny6166
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Re: Insignias

Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:30 am

shirokane wrote:
Seems Ill be the only one with a different opinion here, as new features that are not just to make players life easier or are grind based are always "the end of the world".

Agree this is not an intended feature for new players, however guys you have to understand that 99% of gatcha games are progression based, offering new mechanics each X months as resource sink so older players keep playing. Some of them open new servers each 2 weeks (a feature also despited for most players) so teh new features are not a problem for new players and they can catch up..
The moment you stop giving long term goals (like insignias) the game also dies cause theres nothing else to do, TP is no longer a goal probably for most whales/old players so they need a new goal to sustain the game, because yeah whales are probably paying for like 80% of this game, like in every mobile FtP title...

It's always the same, theyll add a new feature, like they did with Tp, then after  a couple months theyll mitigate it with something (like Tp dungeon) and the cycle starts again, and again...

So I welcome the insignias as any other late game goal, because they give something to do, something to aim, however Xn and others are right, you guys need to lower key requirements or give more as daily basis.

well they can start with mystic revamp and bugs fixing?
hello? new mechanic while mystic revamp had been waiting for like 3 months plus? (sorry bout being rude tho) 
 
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Bansky
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Re: Insignias

Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:43 pm

VF should think this through and decrease the requirements outright before official release.  I do not want to see this go the same path as the TP system.  It took months for devs to realize the TP system had an insane amount of requirement; However, instead of just simply reduce the requirement for TP, they thought it better to add new game content, the TP trials.  This is where the problem lies, Devs never consider the game session time of players, they just want to add more and more game content to their liking without realizing much game session time can increase strain for every players, most especially competitive players.

So this is what I ask now, instead of putting a new game content down the line to ease the burden for players to upgrade their insignias, just lower the requirement upon release.  I know how you like to give advantage to the whales, but in the spirit of fairness, please dont make it so that it will truly widen the gap between whales and midspenders or F2P again.