Valiant Force Forum

I have 6 Kiera sitting in my tavern. Now I just confirmed that I will never use her. Changing numbers in skill/aura is not a revamp.

Her MW form have a skill CD of 5, which means she will never cast her skill before zoey's skill delay. And since she's skill delayed, she will never cast skill before zoey cast her second skill delay... thus Kiera will be skill delayed forever...
Her RM improve makes no difference. She will still be targeted by enemy merlock and die before she can cast skill. Her aura is useless since it's mag based.
Her Ele ... same as RM, die before she has a chance to cast skill, and mag based aura is useless.
Her WL is improved, but confuse is not a very helpful debuff, no immediate effect. Merlock or Zoey WL are still better.

In conclusion, maybe it's more practical to wait for kiera insignia, since zedd insignia seems good.

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make mages' skill based on def instead of mag, will make them more useful...
current meta is just stack def on mage, so merlin/zoey is the strongest because their skill/aura doesn't rely on mag, so they can just stack def...

First, let's search for the definition of 'revamp':

revamp
verb

1. 1.give new and improved form, structure, or appearance to."an attempt to revamp the museum's image"

noun

1. 1.an act of improving the form, structure, or appearance of something."the brand was given a $1 million revamp"

Now that we've gotten the definition of 'revamp' out of the way, let's talk about Kiera. We need to define where Valiants, or in this case, Kiera stand exactly among their same-class counterparts, obviously at a glance, she stands BEHIND Zoey while AHEAD of everyone else. She is a free hero able to be gotten from Valiant Tickets monthly, or Arena Tickets monthly as well, Zoey is an exclusive and premium hero where the only option of getting her is through paid method or through the ladder. So I define, or rather, the game defines her as strong as Zoey stats-wise, but weaker utility-wise (skills and aura).

Kiera has the option to be MLed for now, while Zoey doesn't, max you could get her up is 34, albeit with a HUGE opportunity cost. She'd be way too broken at 4 CD for MW, even for a Valiant, but if you agree with the paragraph above, then you'd agree that her MW is in a perfect position relative to Zoey MW, obviously, her Aura could use better work. 

It is also clear that you have zero idea on how Arena AI works, Enemy Merlock does not specifically seek out Kiera RM to lock her down, she has her own algorithm defined in targeting a particular individual for her skill, since this is not relevant to the topic, I will not discuss about this. But this refutes your point of RM making no difference. And it shows how ignorant you are regarding Kiera RM's aura because her aura is one of the best in arena, in fact, many people employ her in top arena teams specifically for her aura. Her Ele could also be played differently and played in the sense of attrition in Arena, with the revamp, she is allowed to respec into defensive-based mage and win by attrition due to her burns taking away Max HP %, Magic-based aura, again, is not useless.I do agree that WL is the most lacklustre among all the revamp, but if she is played as a defensive-based mage, she would be able to confuse the shit out of trigger teams, although Aden BK clearly does a better job with that regard. 


I'm glad you're going to bench your six Kieras though, because it would be exponentially scarier if I were to have another opponent that utilizes Kiera RM/Elem to its full potential in Arena, so I thank you for that, but this also clearly shows that you know nothing about Arena, Kiera or mages maybe because you're just relying on one trick ponies like Healer Trigger that clearly have no specific end-game goal or win condition and knowing nothing outside of that, in the game. 

So she's still useless during 1st up to 4th turn? Nothing has changed really.

I suggest having useful aura instead to address her usefullness in PVE!!!! :

Mind Warder:
Whenever allies in aura attacks, there's a 30% chance Kiera will fire a missle for 20% MAG damage

Rune Magus:
Whenever allies in aura are hit, there's a 30% chance Kiera will knockback opponent for 15% MAG damage. 

Elementalist:
-Provides 20% of MAG to everyone in aura
-When allies in aura casts a skills, put enemies tiles on BURN status for 20% MaG damage for 2 turns

Warlock
No change atm with the proposed new mechanics


ZOEY AND MERLIN are still better choices than this valiant. Oh boy. Seriously, what were they thinking during their brainstorming?

Correct, but arena mechanics would mean that they benefit greatly from the 6 -> 5 CD, because they can cast it on the first wave, but from the perspective of PvE, you would be right. 

Zoey and Kiera serve a different purpose, except for both their MW counterpart, which clearly shows Zoey is superior, as it should be, as a premium unit. I do agree that she could use a quick buff in her aura to make her more versatile for niche purposes in PvE.

Kiera Mind Warder is definitely improved. Her skill being 5 cd make it so she can cast her skill on first round if going second, and her skill targetting becoming like Ronan's is definitely a good improvement. This looks okay considering the damage potential, but still slightly weaker than Zoey. But as I said in my previous post, it's okay if Zoey is a bit better than Kiera due to Zoey's special status.

I don't have that much to say about Rune Magus, but knockback 2.0 definitely ramp up her damage. Not to mention the slightly faster cd. I'm slightly confused about the description put in there though. Does that mean she actually deal the 70% damage TWICE if the affected unit is at the map boundary (thus cannot be knocked back)?

As for Kiera Elementalist, I would've preferred her skill to remain as burn ground, as IT CAN'T BE RESISTED. The 20% hp damage will serve well that way, since AI rarely move away from their tile especially if they are a long-range unit, OR a megaboss. This in turn will make Elementalist be a slightly viable choice in pve against those type of enemies (provided she's given time to charge her skill). If she has less passive aura that will greatly improve her survival, it'll be perfect.

Warlock has way faster CD, which is preferable to use against tank team if we don't have a Zoey, and a way to mess archer formation if she lived long enough. Since the damage has been scaled down, I suppose it's reasonable to build her as defensive mystic. So unless the skill turn into one target only, I see it as a good improvement.


However, except for Kiera Elementalist, my thought above are mostly under the condition that she's used on arena. The current concept is definitely better, but I still can't see her being used actively for pve purpose despite the changes.

Finally, a post that makes sense and thinks through the revamp rationally, at least from the first paragraph alone. 

She does 70% + 150% if target got displaced by one unit, she does 70% + 70% + 150% if target got displaced by zero unit, unit being 'knocked' on by this effect also take extra damage as a result, unit being sandwiched between two units get full 290% damage as well. Munilet has tested it on Leah Warlord and Knockback 2.0 basically works all on the same principle, same goes for Rem RM, if you're wondering. 

It's a good start, but still far from making Kiera viable. Since it sounds like the only thing we're looking at from this point on is tweaking numbers, I'll try to just stick with that. Anyways here's what I'd suggest:

Kiera Mindwarder 
Active skill (Improved from previous 3x3 AOE)
100% Skill Delay for 1 Turn (ALL) (Changed from 3x3 2 turn skill delay)
Fires 5 missiles, dealing 70-160% of MAG. (Changed from 3x3 130-160% of MAG) 
Each Missile will 100% Skill Delay for 1 turn. (Changed from 3x3 50% to 1 turn Skill Delay)
CD: 4  (reduced from 6)

Passive skill (Improved Chance)
Passive Trigger Rate increased from 35% to 40% for 1 turn Skill Delay

My Reasoning: MW Kiera is in direct competition with MW Zoey. Since they're both skill delay champions, giving one a longer cooldown than the other makes it plainly inferior. Consider that Zoey already has an On Spawn effect, which is incredibly powerful since it can clear Resilience - so even with Kiera's cooldown going down to 4, she's still a bit weaker. This at least makes her playable. 

Kiera Rune Magus 
Active skill (Upgraded Knockback to Knockback 2.0)
Added Knockback 70% of MAG for 2 tiles if unit cannot be knocked back (ALL) (From regular knockback)
Added units knocked back are stunned for 1 turn.
CD: 5  (reduced from 6)

My Reasoning: Pretty close with this one honestly. Still though, RM Kiera suffers from being too binary. For 4 turns she adds no value, until she adds (potentially) a lot of value. Most people use her for her aura, which pairs well with this binary design, but the problem is that the payoff is too short felt. Her damage isn't guaranteed, and her displacement isn't guaranteed to help. Giving her a 1 turn stun will make sure that the long wait to use her skill has some guaranteed value to it.

Kiera Elementalist 
Active skill (Improved immediate damage output)
Direct Damage scaling reduced from 150-180% to 90-140%
Added Burn HP 20%, capped at 30,000 damage (Removed Burning Ground)
CD: 4  (reduced from 6)

My Reasoning: Without a defensive aura to help keep her alive (see EL Zoey), 5 turns is simply too long. She'll either be killed or skill delayed by then. She already has low DEF to begin with. Reduce her damage a little bit to compensate if you need to. But she can't be squishy AND slow.

Kiera Warlock
Active skill (Significantly improved cooldown)
Direct Damage reduced from 150-180% to 60-120%
Team leech increased from 20% to 30%
Confuse turns increased from 1 to 2
CD: 3  (reduced from 6)

Passive skill (Added additional effect)
Added Stun for 2 turns when this hero gets hit

My Reasoning: Let's face it, Confuse isn't always helpful. The big problem though is that the idea behind these Debuff On Hit passive skills is that they're meant to disrupt further incoming attacks. WL Zoey's passive is the best example of this, Stunning for 2 turns. That's pretty great, and should be the baseline for comparing WL Kiera. Even WL Merlin gives fear, which guarantees immediate displacement, which can break trigger aruas. But confuse? That only works at the start of each turn. Which means it's entirely useless at disrupting immediate further attacks. WL Zoey has stun. Give Kiera stun. As far as the leech increase, by nature of reducing her damage, you're reducing her leech, so this just brings it back up to parity.

Hi all,

Just an important point to take note.

1) This entire Revamp is based off Kiera's viability in the PvP arena. Understandably, and in my personal opinion as well, she's probably not better than Zoey, since Zoey is much much more premium and limited. But she's definitely usable now. That said, the final damage values are not finalized yet so let's wait together and see! (I personally don't think the cooldowns are gonna change anymore)

2) Please do take note that if any changes were to be made to the mitigation factor in Arena, by raising Mystic's power, it could be a direct nerf to ALL Tank Teams since maybe their DEF do not add as much MAG resist. Whether that will happen is a tough call which no player here can be responsible for and will create even more uproar.

3) From my conversations with the balance team after sharing some of your most important feedback with them, if and when the passives of Mystics ever improve to be viable turn by turn in PvE, then the Mystic class could have a proper overhaul.

4) Lastly, I believe there are multiple ways to remove resilience before Kiera herself can land a damaging blow. No single hero is immune to the strength of resilience. (Even Zoey can't handle 2x resilience alone)

Hi all,

Just an important point to take note.

1) This entire Revamp is based off Kiera's viability in the PvP arena. Understandably, and in my personal opinion as well, she's probably not better than Zoey, since Zoey is much much more premium and limited. But she's definitely usable now. That said, the final damage values are not finalized yet so let's wait together and see! (I personally don't think the cooldowns are gonna change anymore)

2) Please do take note that if any changes were to be made to the mitigation factor in Arena, by raising Mystic's power, it could be a direct nerf to ALL Tank Teams since maybe their DEF do not add as much MAG resist. Whether that will happen is a tough call which no player here can be responsible for and will create even more uproar.

3) From my conversations with the balance team after sharing some of your most important feedback with them, if and when the passives of Mystics ever improve to be viable turn by turn in PvE, then the Mystic class could have a proper overhaul.

4) Lastly, I believe there are multiple ways to remove resilience before Kiera herself can land a damaging blow. No single hero is immune to the strength of resilience. (Even Zoey can't handle 2x resilience alone)

i will agree to all 3 point above, but i still have mixfeeling about 4th point bcs, if u guys really measure Kiera based on arena, from a non zoey stand point it doesn't show how u grasp the empiric state of the arena. 

indeed Zoey can't easyly handle 2 resilence alone, but in real she can, but i don't have a problem with that, bcs i understand her values as premium, but how we measure a tier 1 mystic below Zoey, that's the most important u guys need to consider, in my opinion Merlin Warlock is one of them ofc, the other that i can think off is talissa warlock, & below her maybe ronan rm(bcs i see & face 1 of them in top 40 if i am not wrong Mimikyu use that)(but for me ronan Tier 2 bcs of his cd).

now i will give u why cd 4 turn at least for Kiera's are important, bcs of 2 reason, 1. against Zoey, 2. against archer(need luck, but still descent from my experience), bcs the philosophy to build a squad behind all arena maniac, will be a durabilty against most archer(not the high end one) & if they wanna push higher into top 40 or top 50 they need a way to battle zoey even in the end all about luck. 

so back to topic why personally i think for example talissa warlock better than other current mystic:

1. 4 turn so she can break first resilence on the entire arena, before for example arthur
2. her summon can do 2 things :
     - mitigation percentage against archer / Mildshield even
     - mid point taker even if it dies in the end of turn 
     - damage(athough her damage not so great, but for archer she can hurt a lot),  from skill or normal  hit

but if Kiera cd can be reduce into 4 at least even the area is limited to a certain area(3x3, +, |), for myself at least, she certainly will be available, but the current for my personal opinion only warlock Kiera, the others, i don't say they are bad but i can't think they can do the job especially when they against Zoey Mindwarder or archer, event we give her talent.
That's my conclusion