User avatar
Mikan
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:03 pm

Re: Introducing Mister Mysterious!

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:58 pm

Thanks for providing a health discussion.

But, you don't fix a thing breaking some other in process. It's not a good solution. Prestige is the same as VIP system from chinese mobile games, but VF prestige it's not that outrageous as you my think, at least comparing to chinese ones.

As I said, those 6* full sets from prestige are not that strong because of suffix, many prestige players are using 5* equipment sets because they have more control over that, that and 6* being unique (one copy only). 

Right now we can farm the Heirloom Set, that I mus say was an incredible idea from the devs, as its worth for everyone. 

I even see a lv 15 prestige using a 4 piece 4* Ranger Set enhanced to 6*

Now imagine yet another scenario: 10x Equip Summon:

Problem 1: People complain the rates for a 5* equip is too low.
Problem 2: People complain that when they get the piece of the set the suffix is wrong.
Problem 3: People complain there is not a safety net for a certain guarantee afer x summons

Now let's talk about some solutions to tis problem, first let's think as devs, we need to keep generating income, so we can't give everything easy...

Solution 1: Lets keep the summon rates without safety net, about wrong suffix, well let's create a new system to change that!
Result. People at first will summon the same, until gets all equips from set. They could summon more to get the right suffix, but there is a suffix reset system, he will stop there and reset all suffix that were not perfect for him. -> Devs will lose a little income from players that chase right suffix from Summon Portal, but, huge BUT! The suffix change system will be for any equip in the future, for any equips the game may reward you. Now player that have a full perfect suffix set may not feel the desire to summon again for a new set, unless... well devs create some more powerful set (by bonus set or raw status). ok, we just sped up powercreep. This is similar to the solution devs are chasing.

Solution 2: Lets keep the summon rates with a safety net, for every 10/20x summons you get a random piece from the set, don't create a new suffix re roll system
Result. People at first will summon the same, until gets all equips from set. They will be happier because now even though he may get double pieces he can see the horizon, and this horizon is the full set. He will probably get some duplicates, BUT those duplicates will probably have some different suffix too, so he can chose what's best for him. If he still can't get all right suffix he wants he can summon more to get the right suffix -> Devs may not lose any money, in fact they may even receive more income, because only a small portion of the player base do equipment summons, common opinion is that it's flawed. The safety net can cause some problems, with some people trying for a lot of full sets with right suffix. 

Solution 2.1 Instead of the safety net give a random piece from set forever they can implement a different guarantee piece for every 10x summon, random suffix once you receive all pieces the safety net will desapear and you will have to summon again for different suffix or duplicates. 

You see, we can discuss a lot of ways to face some of the game problems, we don't need to break the system for that, I like the 2.1 solution as everyone will be happy, F2P players can store 1k Gems to summon a full set (of 5 pieces). In end game the F2P player can get 400+ gems/week. P2P players will feel better with some guarantee and will keep summoning (play the cassino) for perfect suffix if they want.
You say VF prestige isn't as outrageous yet it was enough for you to make a thread regarding it? The only main reason why you're so against the idea of being able to perfect the suffix of equips is because of those 6* gears of high prestige players. If that didn't exist, you wouldn't start this thread or those arguments in the first place.

My solution isn't intended to break something. Prestige is uncalled for in the first place, spending already has it's advantages, adding more advantages for players who already got something for what they spent is going overboard.

Also, it's super hard to understand your wall of text of solutions. Not sure if I lack comprehension or you're having problems trying to explain. No matter how many times I re-read it, it doesn't make sense to my head.
I don't get what you don't get Mr. Mikan, for me i'ts clear as the blue sky. You want a short version? Ok!
The prestige system by itself is really not totaly game breaking. 6* equips from prestige level were not the reason why I started this, players wanting control over systems and this whole re roll mania was.

6* equips are balanced by themselves by having random suffixes. Now those 6* equips + this new re roll system = players starts to be given control over balance system, THAT is not good and the reason for all of this! Devs are creating this system because some players asked for it and it's being delivered without further analysis of the consequences of that, and those consequences are clear: People will mass use till perfect equips. Devs will need to create more equips that brings the attention of the players more quickly, and this brings powercreep. Giving balance system in the palm of the hand of players generates powercreep and unbalance things. 
I want to see people crying about new content developed around this whole Re Roll mania, things will be bad, blood and tears everywhere!
That is exactly why the Prestige giving out 6* gears is a problem. The suffix reroll implementation would've been fine if it weren't for those 6* gears.

Powercreep is unavoidable, it is there to create a feel of progression. That is why the devs also needs to create more challenging content as the powercreep increases. Isn't this already a normal thing already for most successful games? If there's no powercreep and no new content to cope up with the powercreep then what? We're gonna be stuck with a stale boring content, same thing, same setup, same everything.

I honestly give up explaining. We can just agree to disagree.

P.S. Your explanation might be as clear as the blue sky for you but trust me, ask someone with good grammar or an english teacher or even post it on english-teaching forums to check your post. I'm really sure there's something wrong.
 
User avatar
MisterMysterious
Official Member
Official Member
Topic Author
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:00 am

Re: Introducing Mister Mysterious!

Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:05 pm

You say VF prestige isn't as outrageous yet it was enough for you to make a thread regarding it? The only main reason why you're so against the idea of being able to perfect the suffix of equips is because of those 6* gears of high prestige players. If that didn't exist, you wouldn't start this thread or those arguments in the first place.

My solution isn't intended to break something. Prestige is uncalled for in the first place, spending already has it's advantages, adding more advantages for players who already got something for what they spent is going overboard.

Also, it's super hard to understand your wall of text of solutions. Not sure if I lack comprehension or you're having problems trying to explain. No matter how many times I re-read it, it doesn't make sense to my head.
I don't get what you don't get Mr. Mikan, for me i'ts clear as the blue sky. You want a short version? Ok!
The prestige system by itself is really not totaly game breaking. 6* equips from prestige level were not the reason why I started this, players wanting control over systems and this whole re roll mania was.

6* equips are balanced by themselves by having random suffixes. Now those 6* equips + this new re roll system = players starts to be given control over balance system, THAT is not good and the reason for all of this! Devs are creating this system because some players asked for it and it's being delivered without further analysis of the consequences of that, and those consequences are clear: People will mass use till perfect equips. Devs will need to create more equips that brings the attention of the players more quickly, and this brings powercreep. Giving balance system in the palm of the hand of players generates powercreep and unbalance things. 
I want to see people crying about new content developed around this whole Re Roll mania, things will be bad, blood and tears everywhere!
That is exactly why the Prestige giving out 6* gears is a problem. The suffix reroll implementation would've been fine if it weren't for those 6* gears.

Powercreep is unavoidable, it is there to create a feel of progression. That is why the devs also needs to create more challenging content as the powercreep increases. Isn't this already a normal thing already for most successful games? If there's no powercreep and no new content to cope up with the powercreep then what? We're gonna be stuck with a stale boring content, same thing, same setup, same everything.

I honestly give up explaining. We can just agree to disagree.

P.S. Your explanation might be as clear as the blue sky for you but trust me, ask someone with good grammar or an english teacher or even post it on english-teaching forums to check your post. I'm really sure there's something wrong.
Oh, but we are still in early game, prestige 6* equips wont be the only good equips we will have access to.
The devs designed VF to as a Tactical game, and they up till now avoided powercreep, there is not a single 5* potential hero (apart from Valiants of course) that completely outclasses other hero. And they are not releasing a lot of heroes and new equips as well, but new changes may shake things up.
Sorry if my english offends you, but I'm not a native speaker as I may in fact play VF in another language. But this should not make me silent as this english forum is the best way to discuss VF
 
User avatar
Mikan
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:03 pm

Re: Introducing Mister Mysterious!

Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:14 pm

I don't get what you don't get Mr. Mikan, for me i'ts clear as the blue sky. You want a short version? Ok!
The prestige system by itself is really not totaly game breaking. 6* equips from prestige level were not the reason why I started this, players wanting control over systems and this whole re roll mania was.

6* equips are balanced by themselves by having random suffixes. Now those 6* equips + this new re roll system = players starts to be given control over balance system, THAT is not good and the reason for all of this! Devs are creating this system because some players asked for it and it's being delivered without further analysis of the consequences of that, and those consequences are clear: People will mass use till perfect equips. Devs will need to create more equips that brings the attention of the players more quickly, and this brings powercreep. Giving balance system in the palm of the hand of players generates powercreep and unbalance things. 
I want to see people crying about new content developed around this whole Re Roll mania, things will be bad, blood and tears everywhere!
That is exactly why the Prestige giving out 6* gears is a problem. The suffix reroll implementation would've been fine if it weren't for those 6* gears.

Powercreep is unavoidable, it is there to create a feel of progression. That is why the devs also needs to create more challenging content as the powercreep increases. Isn't this already a normal thing already for most successful games? If there's no powercreep and no new content to cope up with the powercreep then what? We're gonna be stuck with a stale boring content, same thing, same setup, same everything.

I honestly give up explaining. We can just agree to disagree.

P.S. Your explanation might be as clear as the blue sky for you but trust me, ask someone with good grammar or an english teacher or even post it on english-teaching forums to check your post. I'm really sure there's something wrong.
Oh, but we are still in early game, prestige 6* equips wont be the only good equips we will have access to.
The devs designed VF to as a Tactical game, and they up till now avoided powercreep, there is not a single 5* potential hero (apart from Valiants of course) that completely outclasses other hero. And they are not releasing a lot of heroes and new equips as well, but new changes may shake things up.
Sorry if my english offends you, but I'm not a native speaker as I may in fact play VF in another language. But this should not make me silent as this english forum is the best way to discuss VF
Early game? Did you see how ridiculous that previous event was? Pillar of Unity is OVERPOWERED as hell. How many players have reached PoU 50? 1% of the playerbase? What if we get a similar content soon? What if conquest actually increases difficulty per run the same way other game's raid system work? You really think most players can handle it? The introduction of suffix reroll system was needed, we needed a new source of powercreep to be able to handle the content the devs are implementing. PoE/PoU happened, it can always happen again.

So with that being said, what is really the problem that catches your attention? It's the 6* gears only high prestige players have. That limited gear which requires you to pay massive amounts of money. Only them has it and now they can perfect it's suffix. THAT is the problem. One less RNG wall is very welcome to this game as it is already filled with TONS of RNG walls. The only thing not welcome here is the ridiculous benefits of high prestige players.

P.S. This is really my last post. If this doesn't convince you, nothing else will.
 
User avatar
MisterMysterious
Official Member
Official Member
Topic Author
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:00 am

Re: Introducing Mister Mysterious!

Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:35 pm

That is exactly why the Prestige giving out 6* gears is a problem. The suffix reroll implementation would've been fine if it weren't for those 6* gears.

Powercreep is unavoidable, it is there to create a feel of progression. That is why the devs also needs to create more challenging content as the powercreep increases. Isn't this already a normal thing already for most successful games? If there's no powercreep and no new content to cope up with the powercreep then what? We're gonna be stuck with a stale boring content, same thing, same setup, same everything.

I honestly give up explaining. We can just agree to disagree.

P.S. Your explanation might be as clear as the blue sky for you but trust me, ask someone with good grammar or an english teacher or even post it on english-teaching forums to check your post. I'm really sure there's something wrong.
Oh, but we are still in early game, prestige 6* equips wont be the only good equips we will have access to.
The devs designed VF to as a Tactical game, and they up till now avoided powercreep, there is not a single 5* potential hero (apart from Valiants of course) that completely outclasses other hero. And they are not releasing a lot of heroes and new equips as well, but new changes may shake things up.
Sorry if my english offends you, but I'm not a native speaker as I may in fact play VF in another language. But this should not make me silent as this english forum is the best way to discuss VF
Early game? Did you see how ridiculous that previous event was? Pillar of Unity is OVERPOWERED as hell. How many players have reached PoU 50? 1% of the playerbase? What if we get a similar content soon? What if conquest actually increases difficulty per run the same way other game's raid system work? You really think most players can handle it? The introduction of suffix reroll system was needed, we needed a new source of powercreep to be able to handle the content the devs are implementing. PoE/PoU happened, it can always happen again.

So with that being said, what is really the problem that catches your attention? It's the 6* gears only high prestige players have. That limited gear which requires you to pay massive amounts of money. Only them has it and now they can perfect it's suffix. THAT is the problem. One less RNG wall is very welcome to this game as it is already filled with TONS of RNG walls. The only thing not welcome here is the ridiculous benefits of high prestige players.

P.S. This is really my last post. If this doesn't convince you, nothing else will.
I'm not here to keep arguing against someone, but let me answer you one last time

Well, this game is still less than 3 months old. You want to talk about the Pillars Event? Yeah that was awful, too soon for an event like that. I believe less than 50 players reached POU floor 50.

It was terrible, even high prestige player felt terrible about it. But we are beyond that, if they do this again, I will surely be here to express my feelings about it.

What bothers me the most is not exactly the 6* equips from prestige, is turning everything in this Re Roll Mania of giving the player ways to interfere with balance of RNG? Turning everything in to perfect builds, getting control over every system. Now they are even teasing equip re roll, this one does not impact that much as re rolling suffix but still not a good thing. Again, more ways to disrupt balance.

You may fear next time they do the Pillar event, as everyone will have access to make perfect sets everything will be “balanced” around that
 
User avatar
SuiCya9
Official Member
Official Member
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:33 am

Re: Introducing Mister Mysterious!

Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:29 am

hmm speaking of "uncover"
this new system, re roll suffix might uncov- nope... WILL UNCOVER THE HUUUUUGE GAP BETWEEN F2P AND HIGH PRESTIGE PLAYERS.
there's already 200% stat boost on towers, insane 6* gear set bonus and now we're having this re roll suffix. If the prestige players will now equip dem 6* gears with perfect suffix, I can only imagine my shadow unit get 1HKO. So what's the point of equip gacha? Yes, prestige players won't probably access that anymore. F2P will become stepping stones for them -> players will get bored -> quit. I'm just a mere f2p though, I might quit if the sugar and salt play seesaw.

I can see the players in this game are painted with different colors, some of them are have the same color but this re roll suffix might paint a large number of players with two different colors: black and white

hope the RNG and Chicken Lord will save us
Last edited by SuiCya9 on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
MrLocket
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: Introducing Mister Mysterious!

Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:21 am

Why would you guys be salty over a teased implement of a new feature  :D

Too many walls of text and I didn't read each of them carefully, but my understanding is that people think that changing item suffix will eventually leads up of collapse of the game itself (like WTF?)

So, many posts I came across is that people use the argument of similar as follow:
Able to change equipment suffix -> P2p player able to get perfect 6star equipment from prestige -> Godlike player proceed to pwn every noob in 1 hit ko (no one mention pvp or pve, in arena perhaps? and also ignoring the fact jobs are constantly changing and being balanced, ensuring no "perfect squad") -> F2p players get salty and quit because they can't fight them at all -> Massive decline in player base -> No more noobs to feed godlike player -> Godlike player quit because of either no challenge or no purpose in spending anymore -> A farewell to a short-lived game

You know what, here is a perfect example to show why this is going to be true:
School give us exam -> We feel stressful -> We got sicked -> We died. So... Please don't give us anymore exam?

At first, please don't think based on your impulse, think as a whole. Sure p2p players are going to whale their way to full prestige equipment with perfect suffix. But will the spending end there? There are so many more things for them to spend, refresh arena orb, job keys, drawing event heroes, buying golds, upgrading and training and promoting, equipment is just a small part of all the spending. Even if they have perfect suffix prestige equipments, that would make them like, 20% or 30% stronger? or maybe double up the strength but that is impossible, they will still have to constantly struggle with squad formation, combo, offense and defense, and many more.

Ok, maybe f2p can't compete with p2p anymore(?). But please tell me, do you think you can reach with top 50 of both ladder and arena without spending a single penny? (there is a f2p player who did this and he is awesome, the sole, the one and only, capable of being called as the best f2p player, I forgot his name, sorry). If you can never hope to reach top 50 of arena then why are you arguing with something that's simply out of your reach? Ok maybe you have a big dream and you wanna be top 1 as a f2p player as you are determined to. Do you think, a perfect suffix prestige equipment will help p2p player stay on top forever? No. VF is a game that constantly evolve and upgrade, there will be much better equipment in future (why you guys ignore the fact that the heirloom equipment is a new thing, and there probably will be more heirloom that surely beats the prestige equipment in future?). What I can tell you about this, is, prestige equipment is going to be staying inside the wardrobe forever, sooner or later.

Tl;dr : The feature of changing equipment suffix will not make everyone quit VF, nor make dev being fired from their job.
Last edited by MrLocket on Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Tidus
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:36 pm

Re: Introducing Mister Mysterious!

Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:13 am

Mister Mysterious

Lets not make assumption before seeing what kind of requirements needed for rerolling suffix.We can all sit here and make assumption all day but the world will not wait for you.  we can start determined if its good or bad once it get implemented.

How can you be so sure that the rerolling can be bad for everyone?
 Are you 100% sure it will ruin the game?
Have you ever try any other possible way of achieving something?
Are you so sure that F2p can not achieve top 50 without spending real cash?
Are so 100% sure that p2p will abuse the system?
The reroll system fail on other game so it will fail on this one?

There are so many answers you can give but in the end they all require hard evidence to support it.If i sit across you,place an object on the table and ask you to take a look,will you be seeing the exact same thing as I am?No,everyone have their own view and who's right who's wrong?the only thing you can do is to prove that your theory is right.

If you don't try something new,it will always be the same boring thing over and over again and that will kill the game.
 
User avatar
Hellstorm
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:41 am

Re: Introducing Mister Mysterious!

Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:32 am

Mister Mysterious

Lets not make assumption before seeing what kind of requirements needed for rerolling suffix.We can all sit here and make assumption all day but the world will not wait for you.  we can start determined if its good or bad once it get implemented.

How can you be so sure that the rerolling can be bad for everyone?
 Are you 100% sure it will ruin the game?
Have you ever try any other possible way of achieving something?
Are you so sure that F2p can not achieve top 50 without spending real cash?
Are so 100% sure that p2p will abuse the system?
The reroll system fail on other game so it will fail on this one?

There are so many answers you can give but in the end they all require hard evidence to support it.If i sit across you,place an object on the table and ask you to take a look,will you be seeing the exact same thing as I am?No,everyone have their own view and who's right who's wrong?the only thing you can do is to prove that your theory is right.

If you don't try something new,it will always be the same boring thing over and over again and that will kill the game.
Agree with him.
Why make a thread with so much salt when the actual features are not out yet.
Who knows you might  need a sacrifice a 6* to actually have a chance of changing a 6* prefix.
Lets see how they implement this system before we bash it.
 
User avatar
pockychama
Official Member
Official Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Introducing Mister Mysterious!

Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:43 pm

Actually it's kinda funny that most of you said, DEV is doing too much for players and similar..
To me, it means the DEV has been working so much to create a great game with features that one day when we open for global, people won't ask for more features like this.
 
User avatar
MisterMysterious
Official Member
Official Member
Topic Author
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:00 am

Re: Introducing Mister Mysterious!

Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:46 pm

hmm speaking of "uncover"
this new system, re roll suffix might uncov- nope... WILL UNCOVER THE HUUUUUGE GAP BETWEEN F2P AND HIGH PRESTIGE PLAYERS.
there's already 200% stat boost on towers, insane 6* gear set bonus and now we're having this re roll suffix. If the prestige players will now equip dem 6* gears with perfect suffix, I can only imagine my shadow unit get 1HKO. So what's the point of equip gacha? Yes, prestige players won't probably access that anymore. F2P will become stepping stones for them -> players will get bored -> quit. I'm just a mere f2p though, I might quit if the sugar and salt play seesaw.

I can see the players in this game are painted with different colors, some of them are have the same color but this re roll suffix might paint a large number of players with two different colors: black and white

hope the RNG and Chicken Lord will save us
I understand you, a part of the community wants to advance faster in the game.

they want to have MLB heroes with perfect Faith, perfect equipment suffix, good upgrade results and Valiant Selector.
All that in a small time. It's like a 14 y.o. kid that loves fast cars, and he is too impatient to wait till he turns 18 y.o. So he keeps asking his dad do let him drive his car. At 14 y.o. he is not even mentally ready to drive, let alone drive a fast car.

Well, the devs are creating systems to make those players happy. But it’s that what they truly want? Do they know how more competitive the game will turn in a little space of time? And how this will affect others systems? Expect a huge an quick disparity between players.