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Zayler
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Re: 5-Star Hero Tier List

Wed May 24, 2017 10:51 pm

While you guys have many valid points, I really still do not believe GS Cybella is same tier as Talisa.In the current available PvE content, I will always bring trigger rangers over any mystic. Ronan should be downgraded to C, and Talisa to B. Or GS Cybella should really be S-tier. A single trigger proc from a ranger can easily deal in a single turn (by proccing Sven and other rangers to attack) much more damage that all the damage Talisa and her pet can do over 6 turns (they both use their skill), it's not even a comparison.

There seems to be a heavy reluctance to give non-summoners S-tier in PvE, that there are only 4 units rated S.

The 4 turn cooldown on Talisa is a big deal. It is just way too slow, compared to the damage output trigger rangers can dish out by triggering adjacent heroes (champs and other rangers) in the first 3 turns that can outright kill half the enemies while Talisa just tickles them. This effectively reduces the damage my squad takes significantly, so that your squad requires less healing/tanks/potions. If you let the enemies live so that Talisa can mass damage them, yes that's a lot of damage, but the fight just goes so much slower. If I can kill most of the enemies in the first 2 turns, I don't need Talisa's pet to distract. Ranger triggers are so important in PvE that most of the time, I would rather normal-attack with my rangers and never use their skills except in an emergency situation where I need to stun/sleep a enemy unit. This is the part where I address the "hero effectiveness vs enemies" - killing enemies is just more effective than dragging out the fight for Mystic skills to kill them - especially a skill that deals damage over time and not instant damage to kill.
I've increased Cybella Gunslinger PVE rating to S. Her 4CD sleep for 2 turns along with the 100% multiplier trigger finally convinced me to give her that S rating.

There is no reluctance in giving non-summoners S-tier PvE, it's just that an extra unit is such an advantage in PvE content and Summoners are the only units that increase your MAX unit count with units that are useful. Not to forget the icing on the cake which is the summon skill effects that most summoners have.

Yes, killing enemies is more effective than dragging out the fight, providing you can deal significant damage. As mentioned earlier, rangers tend to have difficulty wiping high DEF enemies which are much more common in PvE than high MAG enemies. More so if the ranger is CRIT built since it means sacrificing ATK. Another thing to consider is that trigger teams are RNG based while Talissa is less risky.

MW Ronan is a "B" in PvE because his DEF reducing aura and CD delay skill provides good utility in PvE.
 
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Zayler
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Re: 5-Star Hero Tier List

Wed May 24, 2017 10:56 pm

Get ready for a long post.
I'd just list some heroes that I disagree with the rating, for those I dont list, that means I agree with the rating.

Matilda Spiritwalker
PvP - B / PvE - A / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why?
Healers don't have great offensive capability nor tanking ability, even with high-end equipment.
Her skill set is nice, but not amazing.
She can summon an angel who heal per attack which is nice...BUT ! The angel has low status, she can't tank, deals only average damage and also heals moderately. Her aura also can't support her ally unlike Faye, If I have extra slot I'd choose Faye over her.

Talissa Warlock
PvP - S / PvE - B / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why?
Talissa warlock is a goddess in PvP. But other than that she's not really amazing.
There's other units who can do better job than Her in PvE where you can finish a battle in less in 4 turn. Sure she's nice but the fact that mystics deals low damage with normal attack just lower her utility.

Sora Assassin
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why?
Generally shadows sucks in PvP in this current patch. Ronan and Talissa can take her down easily.
In PvE I'd rather bring an unit who can attack trigger or refresh another unit. Her aura is defensive and unreliable, cuz RNG. I'd rather choose to build ninja sora over assassin sora.

Kai Ninja
PvP - B / PvE - A / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why?
Same reason with other shadows. Dead by Talissa.
He's nice in PvE because of refresh but sucks in Raid because his refresh is triggered by killing enemies with melee range. Nadia, Cybella and Kane can do a better job because they hits with Ranged attacks.

Kai Assassin
PvP - B / PvE - A / Raid - A / Setup - A
Why?
You get valiants randomly, so you can't rely to get shizu. Meanwhile if you don't have shizu, Kai Assassin + Kai Ninja can refresh each other.
While in raid Kai Assassin works well with archer trigger team in raid, look at raid ladder for reference.
That's why I think he should rank higher in raid.

I'll continue later since I have to go right now.
Thanks for the feedback. My reasoning for Spiritwalker Matilda's S rating in PVE is because her kit has so much (Angle heal on attack, Angel active heal skill, Full enemy dispel, Full ally cleanse, Trigger Self to attack with angel heals, Buffs her own ATK by 40% MAG). No other unit provides this much utility in the game. Get Matilda to 7k MAG and her angel has 10k ATK meaning around 1k-2k heal per attack and 5k active skill heal for 2 turns. With 7k MAG, she buffs her own ATK by 2.8k which deals considerable damage when paired with her 120% trigger modifier. Faye is a pseudo-healer that tanks while Matilda is a healer that deals damage.

In light of Xinhuan and your input on Talissa Warlock, I've decided to reduce her Raid rating from B to C as the damage output for Raid is a primary factor. However I'm still sticking to PvE rating of A for reasons mentioned earlier by myself, YayuSheng, & Newnar.

I've reduced Assassin Sora's PvE rating to A due to RNG factor and non trigger. Her defensive aura is precisely why I gave her an "A" in PVP, she could turn the tides vs Sven or Archer trigger team with that 35% trigger for 100% damage reduction. Sora Assassin is actually a hard counter to Ronan because she can summon her pet before Ronan can cast. Her pet also has a 2 turn silence that can be used in the first PVP wave if you start second or at the start of the second wave if you start first. It's a little more tricky when comparing with Talissa since who summons first could kill the other.

Reduced Ninja Kai Raid rating to "C" as suggested. I gave Kai Ninja an "A" in arena as he counters Tank tile teams with the swap + stealth + 45% DEF reduction. I would like to add that ranger trigger teams are walled by the current Tank tile teams. Against a Ranger or Mystic team however, on the off chance that Ninja Kai survives to the 2nd PVP wave, he could potentially kill the entire back line of rangers or mystics while refreshing himself with his own Aura.

My original Raid rating for Assassin Kai is "A" which is the same as what you wrote, do you mean he should be rated "S" for raid? I've reduced his PVP to "B" after thinking because he's rather hard to utilize in PVP, open to other suggestions since i never actually used him in Arena. Increased his PvE to "A" as suggested because the refresh allows you to just bulldoze enemies and his active skill is also prevents enemies from casting. His Setup is a "B" because he does require decent gear and specific allies in order to actually shine.

Looking forward to your next post :D
 
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Silmeria
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Re: 5-Star Hero Tier List

Tue May 30, 2017 4:26 pm

I think I must have mistaken a bit in the assassin Kai since I was in a hurry when I wrote about him lol.

Okay I'll continue again.
Nadia Gunslinger
PvP - A / PvE - A / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why ?
Her aura doesn't work efficiently in raid because you need to kill an unit with her to trigger. Other unit can be better than her in the raid like sharpshooters because their aura works well.

Ronan Mind warder
PvP - A / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why ?
Most boss in raid are resistant to def reduction debuff. Hence kills his aura.

Kira Assassin
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why ?
Inferior to other shadows in term of utility. Poison works worse than normal attack because the damage shows every turn, not instantly.

Faye Paladin
PvP - A / PvP - S / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why ?
I think Faye Paladin is underrated.
Because while HD has better active skill, Paladin has better aura, her aura mitigates damage and has higher chance (75% rather than 45%).
Her active skill also has different utility with her Holy Defender counterpart. Thorns can return damage to the enemies and mag buff is useful in the Treant boss fight. The buff from her skill is enough to make the party resist charm from Treant's skill and acts as a shield if the resistance fail.
The mag buff also help buffs mystic in PvP which may come handy.

Izumi Magebane
PvP - A / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why?
I lower her PvP rating because her active skill is not as useful to fight tank squad.

Cybella Gunslinger
PvP - S / PvE - S / Raid - A / Setup - B
Why?
I raised her raid rating because she's one of the core for trigger stunlock formation. The 100% atk damage is also better than other trigger units.

Cybella Grand Ranger
PvP - A / PvE - A / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why?
She's second rate gunslinger in raid. Also, because you can't choose what hero you will get in gacha, building both gunslinger and grand ranger can give you better damage output in raid if you happen to have extra cybellas and no better unit.
And why the D setup? I think she has similar setting to gunslinger, and a little bit higher crit base status.

Cybella Royal Huntsman
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - B
She has defensive aura while rangers are supposedly offensive. That made RH useless to most situations and it's better to use better units instead. Sharpshooters work better than royal huntsman. Hence the low rating.

I'll continue later... Gotta go (again).
 
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Re: 5-Star Hero Tier List

Wed May 31, 2017 3:36 pm

Well done Zayler, I'm still new to this game, thanks to your list of heroes rating, I know which hero to focus on for my raid team and PVP team. Keep up the good work !!
 
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Re: 5-Star Hero Tier List

Wed May 31, 2017 10:17 pm

Nice work, OP! I dont know why I just noticed this thread now but will definitely go through this and might be able to share my thoughts as well. Definitely a good "Overview" for our new players.
 
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Zayler
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Re: 5-Star Hero Tier List

Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:17 pm

Well done Zayler, I'm still new to this game, thanks to your list of heroes rating, I know which hero to focus on for my raid team and PVP team. Keep up the good work !!
Nice work, OP! I dont know why I just noticed this thread now but will definitely go through this and might be able to share my thoughts as well. Definitely a good "Overview" for our new players.
Thanks :D please do comment if you think any of the ratings might be off.
 
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Zayler
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Re: 5-Star Hero Tier List

Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:00 pm

I think I must have mistaken a bit in the assassin Kai since I was in a hurry when I wrote about him lol.

Okay I'll continue again.
Nadia Gunslinger
PvP - A / PvE - A / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why ?
Her aura doesn't work efficiently in raid because you need to kill an unit with her to trigger. Other unit can be better than her in the raid like sharpshooters because their aura works well.
I actually have no idea why i gave her such a high rating in Raid lol. knocked it down to C.
Ronan Mind warder
PvP - A / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why ?
Most boss in raid are resistant to def reduction debuff. Hence kills his aura.
I've been using Ronan MW and his Def break does affect Raid bosses (-57% DEF if all 3 stick). His 4 turn delay is also great since there are few ways for preventing the main boss from casting spells. I deal around 3 million per key to Snake with Bzk Sven & Vincent, MW Ronan, SW Matilda, WL Sven. MW Ronan active skill delays the first tail sweep and prevents the second happening before time runs out.
Kira Assassin
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why ?
Inferior to other shadows in term of utility. Poison works worse than normal attack because the damage shows every turn, not instantly.
Knocked down his ratings as suggested. I might have been biased because the aura looked nice on paper (can be stacked 3x since ally triggers are separate instances). The Crit poison scaling is sad though.
Faye Paladin
PvP - A / PvP - S / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why ?
I think Faye Paladin is underrated.
Because while HD has better active skill, Paladin has better aura, her aura mitigates damage and has higher chance (75% rather than 45%).
Her active skill also has different utility with her Holy Defender counterpart. Thorns can return damage to the enemies and mag buff is useful in the Treant boss fight. The buff from her skill is enough to make the party resist charm from Treant's skill and acts as a shield if the resistance fail.
The mag buff also help buffs mystic in PvP which may come handy.
Increased PVP to S as suggested. I'm keeping her Raid as C because she does almost nothing for 5 turns while waiting for her skill to be up. CK Aden and MW Zedd also provide MAG buffs with their aura while also dealing damage and delaying skill counter with their active skill and they both are rated D in Raid. I've added a placeholder side note for Faye in the Raid tab so that I'll remember to include it when I actually have time to work on that :?
Izumi Magebane
PvP - A / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why?
I lower her PvP rating because her active skill is not as useful to fight tank squad.
Reduced PvP to A as suggested due to tank squad meta.
Cybella Gunslinger
PvP - S / PvE - S / Raid - A / Setup - B
Why?
I raised her raid rating because she's one of the core for trigger stunlock formation. The 100% atk damage is also better than other trigger units.
Increased Raid to "A" as suggested. Setup is still "D" because she requires a ton in order to be effective: Good aura positioning, other trigger teammates, high end gear for CRIT and ATK, protection due to squishy, RNG based and risky if fail to Crit chain trigger, etc...
Cybella Grand Ranger
PvP - A / PvE - A / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why?
She's second rate gunslinger in raid. Also, because you can't choose what hero you will get in gacha, building both gunslinger and grand ranger can give you better damage output in raid if you happen to have extra cybellas and no better unit.
And why the D setup? I think she has similar setting to gunslinger, and a little bit higher crit base status.
I'm keeping her Raid as "C" because she's basically just an aura slave for trigger. Knockback doesn't help in Raid and that 70% aura multiplier is really low. Paired with her active skill which is almost dead weight in Raid since there's a long cool down and sleep usually lasts only 1 turn due to damage.

Setup rating of "D" is same as GS Cybella. Her slightly higher CRIT stat does help but knockback can be tricky especially if you have melee units in your team as double knockback would put targets out of melee range.
Cybella Royal Huntsman
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - B
She has defensive aura while rangers are supposedly offensive. That made RH useless to most situations and it's better to use better units instead. Sharpshooters work better than royal huntsman. Hence the low rating.
My reasoning for "A" PvE rating is that misdirect cannot be resisted unlike taunt, the 60% shield reduces both magical and physical damage, can be used with a Tanky Champion instead of bringing a pure defensive guardian meaning more damage output, pairs well with Guardians when needed in higher level events. You do make a good point that she has a narrow niche use, I've reduce her Setup to "C" to reflect this.

Looking forward to more input as always ;)
 
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Re: 5-Star Hero Tier List

Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:30 pm

The last batch is here ! *trying to copy MiloD*

Teresa Witch Doctor
PvP - C / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why?
I'm wondering why you put her raid value at A lol
Her skill cooldown takes too long to utilize at 7 turn delay, and her aura is also ineffective imo. That's why I decrease her raid rating from A to C.

Kira Ninja
PvP - A / PvE - A / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why?
I think he should rank higher, because his aura is unique and great. Atk and Crit buff is nice especially the Crit. At 10k++ atk he can buff 1050++ crit. Champions are rarely built on crit and this buff can come in handy. 150 crit is counted as 1% crit in this game and 1050 crit means 7%. A nice addition to both champions and rangers who are lacking in crit.
But he needs good gear to utilize his aura. Which is why I decrease his setup from A to B.

Aden Chaos Knight
PvP - S / PvE - B / Raid - D / Setup - A
Why?
I think his PvE rating should be increased from C to B because HP is more easily increased than Def. His active skill is also nice to use against bosses because it pulls an unit and delays skill cool down.
Nice utility with decent cooldown.

Kahuna Witch Doctor
PvP - C / PvE - B / Raid - B / Setup - C
Why?
I think his raid rating should be decreased from A to B because it's harder to efficiently utilize his aura.

Teresa Spirit Walker
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - A
Why?
Slightly increase her raid rating because her aura increases atk and def which is rare in healers. Her active skill is also nice because sleep has high accuracy. I tried using her in chimera once and the chimera skips a turn :D

Kai Magebane
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - B / Setup - C
Why?
I think he should rate higher because his aura can be used to stunlock a boss. But kai magebane alone is not reliable, you need another trigger unit to help Him, hence the C setup.

Cybella Sharpshooter
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - D / Setup - B
Why?
I raised her PvP rating from C to B because her aura increase crit, which works well in archer squad.
Also she can be built with Ares Faith instead of Hera.

Zedd Mind Warder
PvP - C / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why?
Raised his PvE from C to B, Raid from D to C.
Because his aura increases atk and mag, skill delay, and can be used to wipe treant kids in the treant stage. But he requires nice runes too, hence why I decrease his setup from A to B.

Theia Archbishop
PvP - B / PvE - C / Raid - D / Setup - B
Why?
Her aura is unique and can be helpful against poison. Her skill can be good if used in the right situation, hence why I increase her PvP rating from C to B. Plus point, she's pretty and she's the heroine :p

Anyway thanks for your effort and reply, have a nice day :D
 
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Zayler
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Re: 5-Star Hero Tier List

Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:22 pm

The last batch is here ! *trying to copy MiloD*

Teresa Witch Doctor
PvP - C / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why?
I'm wondering why you put her raid value at A lol
Her skill cooldown takes too long to utilize at 7 turn delay, and her aura is also ineffective imo. That's why I decrease her raid rating from A to C.
Reduced Raid to C. It was actually one of the first ratings i did so it's outdated. This was before Matilda was released and Raid difficulty was reduced. Teresa was probably the only viable healer in raid aside from Kahuna at that time and delaying the boss skill counter was vital.
Kira Ninja
PvP - A / PvE - A / Raid - B / Setup - B
Why?
I think he should rank higher, because his aura is unique and great. Atk and Crit buff is nice especially the Crit. At 10k++ atk he can buff 1050++ crit. Champions are rarely built on crit and this buff can come in handy. 150 crit is counted as 1% crit in this game and 1050 crit means 7%. A nice addition to both champions and rangers who are lacking in crit.
But he needs good gear to utilize his aura. Which is why I decrease his setup from A to B.
His Aura is actually the only reason he doesn't have even lower ratings. I've increase his Raid to C as I don't think he fits well in a raid team: no trigger, active skill only for Atk debuff, not strong enough to be a main damage dealer like Berserkers or Dragoon Drake. PvE kept at B because swap is not as good as pull in PvE considering you break formation and lose his aura benefit for other allies.  

Setup is A because the aura always affects himself and the increase is percentage based so it remains significant throughout your progression (ie, beginner eq = beginner stat boost, late game eq = late game stat boost).
Aden Chaos Knight
PvP - S / PvE - B / Raid - D / Setup - A
Why?
I think his PvE rating should be increased from C to B because HP is more easily increased than Def. His active skill is also nice to use against bosses because it pulls an unit and delays skill cool down.
Nice utility with decent cooldown.
Increased PvE to "B" as suggested.
Kahuna Witch Doctor
PvP - C / PvE - B / Raid - B / Setup - C
Why?
I think his raid rating should be decreased from A to B because it's harder to efficiently utilize his aura.
I agree that it's hard to utilize his aura so i decreased Setup to D. Keeping his Raid to "A" as he can be used to chain trigger with his 40% proc rate and a lifesteal aura or rune. example below:
(Bzk Sven) (Wyvern)
(GL Drake) (WD Kahuna)
(NJ Sora) (WD Matilda)
Teresa Spirit Walker
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - A
Why?
Slightly increase her raid rating because her aura increases atk and def which is rare in healers. Her active skill is also nice because sleep has high accuracy. I tried using her in chimera once and the chimera skips a turn :D
Increased Raid to C as suggested. I guess the global sleep could have a very niche use.
Kai Magebane
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - B / Setup - C
Why?
I think he should rate higher because his aura can be used to stunlock a boss. But kai magebane alone is not reliable, you need another trigger unit to help Him, hence the C setup.
I've increase the ratings to B like you mentioned (stunlock). Reduced Setup to D because he's a melee unit and requires difficult positioning to be useful. He's basically useless without his Aura.
Cybella Sharpshooter
PvP - B / PvE - B / Raid - D / Setup - B
Why?
I raised her PvP rating from C to B because her aura increase crit, which works well in archer squad.
Also she can be built with Ares Faith instead of Hera.
The scaling mismatch between her active skill and Aura really irks me. Anyway I increased her PvP as suggested because of niche use. I've decrease her PvE to "C" though since I just cant see any reason to build a SS Cybella for PvE purposes.
Zedd Mind Warder
PvP - C / PvE - B / Raid - C / Setup - B
Why?
Raised his PvE from C to B, Raid from D to C.
Because his aura increases atk and mag, skill delay, and can be used to wipe treant kids in the treant stage. But he requires nice runes too, hence why I decrease his setup from A to B.
Increased Raid to C as suggested. I'm still keeping his PvE to C because his active skill takes too long to be useful in PvE. Tailssa is probably the only PvE generally viable Mystic with Ronan being situational. His Setup is also still "A" because "beginner stats = beginner damage, late game stats = late game damage".
Theia Archbishop
PvP - B / PvE - C / Raid - D / Setup - B
Why?
Her aura is unique and can be helpful against poison. Her skill can be good if used in the right situation, hence why I increase her PvP rating from C to B. Plus point, she's pretty and she's the heroine :p
I really cant give her a better rating even if I wanted to :cry: She's a Healer who doesn't heal, extremely situational active skill, and her aura is so underpowered. Her incompetence becomes superfluously obvious when you compare her to the other Archbishops like Luthor who has a superior active skill (also 5 CD) and an unconditional healing aura; Teresa's aura greatly outclasses hers with a 75% proc rate for 30% MAG heal to EVERYONE. I'm not even going to mention the valiant AB Lucille because that's just unfair lol.

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate your effort in going through the ratings :D
 
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Re: 5-Star Hero Tier List

Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:33 pm

Sorry I can't offer any clever opinions/suggestions, but kudos to you with your excel sheet formulas and efforts! :D