Valiant Force Forum

I respectfully disagree... In the past, when trigger archers were the sick ass meta and everyone hated them, people fought them in two ways. Imitation and creativity. I did the former and imitated them, with variations while I met a 4 tank 1 Lucille team that completely shut down my trigger team. So I feel it's just perhaps we are not thinking hard enough yet...

I mean to be honest, a summoner alone isn't that OP. It's the combination with Aden + Lucille/RM Ronan's protection towards them which makes them disgusting isn't it?

https://puu.sh/vaeIu.jpg
https://puu.sh/vaeJz.jpg
https://puu.sh/vaeKb.jpg
https://puu.sh/vaeKL.jpg
https://puu.sh/vaeM4.jpg

And many more actually.

@JamesWong

+1

Rolled an Ares Sven from the 100% completion a few days ago. Must say it's quite generous of them to give away a rate up unit for free. Quite satisfied with VF thus far and will probably be playing it in the foreseeable future.

There is probably no game out there that's going to be perfectly balanced. The imbalances in VF right now are quite forgivable imo because XII have proven that they are willing to accept feedback and continue balancing the game. This alone is a huge plus for me, since a changing game means new things to try out and play with.

Yeah Summoners are quite imbalanced right now, but I don't foresee that it will be difficult to bring them in line, and I have been having a ball of a time finding ways to kill Summoner teams.

Thanks for the +1! 

What are the ways? 

@JamesWong

+1

Rolled an Ares Sven from the 100% completion a few days ago. Must say it's quite generous of them to give away a rate up unit for free. Quite satisfied with VF thus far and will probably be playing it in the foreseeable future.

There is probably no game out there that's going to be perfectly balanced. The imbalances in VF right now are quite forgivable imo because XII have proven that they are willing to accept feedback and continue balancing the game. This alone is a huge plus for me, since a changing game means new things to try out and play with.

Yeah Summoners are quite imbalanced right now, but I don't foresee that it will be difficult to bring them in line, and I have been having a ball of a time finding ways to kill Summoner teams.

Thanks for the +1! 

What are the ways? 

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3765&p=22358#p22358
This might not happen all the time, but charm is still a hard counter to high physical offence units, which Sven is. If you can kill the summoner, it also takes out their summon. What I notice about many summoners is that they tend to have lower than usual defence, which allows charm or physical based attacks to take them out quickly.

5) "The game takes too much time"
Recently, someone asked me to try out a game called King's Raid sort of as a Valiant Force replacement. Like I mentioned, I don't really like ARPG. Another of my friend tried it out and told me it was actually more time consuming than Valiant Force. I don't think any game out there, be it Summoner's War, 7 Knights, Dynasty Warriors are any less grindy. I think the correct version of what that statement should be is "For some reason, I have lost interest in the game" If on the off chance you are talking about the raid, with the release of Sven, there is a way to attain at least 1.6 million points without retreating so that should very much shorten your length of gameplay time. I will be creating videos on the Raid Bosses once my schedule frees up. 

I mostly agree with James' post for the most part, but I disagree with the point above about the length of playtime required for VF. The argument put forth here by James is that because other games are grindy, it is ok for VF to be grindy too, and this isn't really valid justification.

Two of my friends quit VF this week (and left the guild to free up the guild slot), each citing that the game is taking up too much of their time. Currently, VF requires no less than 3 hours just to clear all the arena games as well as the 300 or so energy. Consider this

24 arena orbs - 1 hour for 24 matches.
300 energy (from maxed water mill, and various lunch/dinner/wishing well/guild chest/marketplace) - that's 20 runs of event tower, say Floor 50. About 2 hours give or take a bit at 10 runs per hour, along with doing some capitol/gold mine/dailies.

That's without considering guild raids. Or any future content like Guild Conquest. It's only going to get worse. Right now, the game is in a state where players feel obligated to grind, or they will fall behind. And if they are feeling they are falling behind then it stops being fun; it's a terrible feeling. Maybe James here can clear content and all his energy much faster than the average player because his gear and units are much much better than the average player, James might take 2/3 or even 1/2 the time required, or maybe even put the game on Auto on floor 50 while the rest of us are manual-ing the hard upper floors, and this could be the reason that James does not feel the game is grindy.

I hope i've shed some light on the subject, because if I told you "What if, everyday, you now have 3 extra hours to do whatever you want?" would you take it? All that extra time, how many animes can you watch? Movies? Youtube? Hanging out with friends? Other hobbies? Because at some point, it just feels we are going through the motions daily, and it involves repeating manually the same Floor 50 (or whatever event tower floor you can handle) over and over and over and over again for 20 times for 2 hours daily for 2-3 weeks.

I know what some people are going to say - "But sir, you do not have to min-max. Nor do you need to spend 300 energy everyday. Just spend 200 energy instead. Prioritize your life". And that is correct. People are choosing to play the game less, or just quit entirely - like my 2 friends. People who choose to play the game less eventually lose interest in the game because they know they are falling behind.

Hi! I admit that I hadn't considered from the point of view of people who have not spent as much money as I have and thus do not have the same equipments/level of heroes. However, I believe the point I am trying to make here is with this type of games comes the "grindy" aspect of it and as compared to other mobile games of this genre, 7Knights and Summoner's War, this game is less grindy(or so I am told since I have yet to play the above mentioned game). If the majority of people do feel that it is too grindy(which I don't), perhaps XII Braves could implement solutions like letting us use Express Tickets as if we were playing the content itself. We can therefore still gain the same amount of EXP, loot and items without the hassle of running through the gameplay itself. This can perhaps be done for all stages in events that have already been cleared once(including temporary events). 

I respectfully disagree... In the past, when trigger archers were the sick ass meta and everyone hated them, people fought them in two ways. Imitation and creativity. I did the former and imitated them, with variations while I met a 4 tank 1 Lucille team that completely shut down my trigger team. So I feel it's just perhaps we are not thinking hard enough yet...

I mean to be honest, a summoner alone isn't that OP. It's the combination with Aden + Lucille/RM Ronan's protection towards them which makes them disgusting isn't it?

Might I suggest you try fighting against this IGN: mynameiszx
He uses 1 Sven Berserker, 1 Talissa and 1 Ronan. I forgot if he goes first or I go first, he is able to use his Sven's summon to cast a spell, followed by his Talissa's summon casting a spell, followed by a Ronan casting a spell. All these three spells will be cast before I can cast any spell at all. I am running 2 Fayes', a Lucille, a Ronan and a Zedd. All have high HP or Magic Resistance and I am not able to withstand that barrage of spells. If that is not OP, what is? 

I respectfully disagree... In the past, when trigger archers were the sick ass meta and everyone hated them, people fought them in two ways. Imitation and creativity. I did the former and imitated them, with variations while I met a 4 tank 1 Lucille team that completely shut down my trigger team. So I feel it's just perhaps we are not thinking hard enough yet...

I mean to be honest, a summoner alone isn't that OP. It's the combination with Aden + Lucille/RM Ronan's protection towards them which makes them disgusting isn't it?

Might I suggest you try fighting against this IGN: mynameiszx
He uses 1 Sven Berserker, 1 Talissa and 1 Ronan. I forgot if he goes first or I go first, he is able to use his Sven's summon to cast a spell, followed by his Talissa's summon casting a spell, followed by a Ronan casting a spell. All these three spells will be cast before I can cast any spell at all. I am running 2 Fayes', a Lucille, a Ronan and a Zedd. All have high HP or Magic Resistance and I am not able to withstand that barrage of spells. If that is not OP, what is? 

That's exactly what I meant. You have used one team to challenge his team where your team has failed. But others have other teams which can take him down. For example, GR Kane stunlocking Sven or dropping him to 25% at his turn cast will force him to commit suicide, thereafter dealing with Talissa alone is status quo for the rest of the summoners team. I'm not saying they are not OP, I'm saying we haven't discovered the scissors paper stone element which can work well against summoners. 
Remember, your own team dishes almost no damage until turn 6, while he's probably able to hurt you since turn 3. What if I can hurt him at turn 1? 
That said, I respect your achievements in reaching Legend, so no doubting your abilities there. But I am certain there are ways to take down this fella's teams. In this aspect, those teams that succeed against this team may then fall to yours. 

P.S. this is just theorycraft, I may be just as stupid as I sound to some of you guys.

I respectfully disagree... In the past, when trigger archers were the sick ass meta and everyone hated them, people fought them in two ways. Imitation and creativity. I did the former and imitated them, with variations while I met a 4 tank 1 Lucille team that completely shut down my trigger team. So I feel it's just perhaps we are not thinking hard enough yet...

I mean to be honest, a summoner alone isn't that OP. It's the combination with Aden + Lucille/RM Ronan's protection towards them which makes them disgusting isn't it?

Might I suggest you try fighting against this IGN: mynameiszx
He uses 1 Sven Berserker, 1 Talissa and 1 Ronan. I forgot if he goes first or I go first, he is able to use his Sven's summon to cast a spell, followed by his Talissa's summon casting a spell, followed by a Ronan casting a spell. All these three spells will be cast before I can cast any spell at all. I am running 2 Fayes', a Lucille, a Ronan and a Zedd. All have high HP or Magic Resistance and I am not able to withstand that barrage of spells. If that is not OP, what is? 

That's exactly what I meant. You have used one team to challenge his team where your team has failed. But others have other teams which can take him down. For example, GR Kane stunlocking Sven or dropping him to 25% at his turn cast will force him to commit suicide, thereafter dealing with Talissa alone is status quo for the rest of the summoners team. I'm not saying they are not OP, I'm saying we haven't discovered the scissors paper stone element which can work well against summoners. 
Remember, your own team dishes almost no damage until turn 6, while he's probably able to hurt you since turn 3. What if I can hurt him at turn 1? 
That said, I respect your achievements in reaching Legend, so no doubting your abilities there. But I am certain there are ways to take down this fella's teams. In this aspect, those teams that succeed against this team may then fall to yours. 

P.S. this is just theorycraft, I may be just as stupid as I sound to some of you guys.

@JamesWong

+1

Rolled an Ares Sven from the 100% completion a few days ago. Must say it's quite generous of them to give away a rate up unit for free. Quite satisfied with VF thus far and will probably be playing it in the foreseeable future.

There is probably no game out there that's going to be perfectly balanced. The imbalances in VF right now are quite forgivable imo because XII have proven that they are willing to accept feedback and continue balancing the game. This alone is a huge plus for me, since a changing game means new things to try out and play with.

Yeah Summoners are quite imbalanced right now, but I don't foresee that it will be difficult to bring them in line, and I have been having a ball of a time finding ways to kill Summoner teams.

Thanks for the +1! 

What are the ways? 

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3765&p=22358#p22358
This might not happen all the time, but charm is still a hard counter to high physical offence units, which Sven is. If you can kill the summoner, it also takes out their summon. What I notice about many summoners is that they tend to have lower than usual defence, which allows charm or physical based attacks to take them out quickly.

I respectfully disagree... In the past, when trigger archers were the sick ass meta and everyone hated them, people fought them in two ways. Imitation and creativity. I did the former and imitated them, with variations while I met a 4 tank 1 Lucille team that completely shut down my trigger team. So I feel it's just perhaps we are not thinking hard enough yet...

I mean to be honest, a summoner alone isn't that OP. It's the combination with Aden + Lucille/RM Ronan's protection towards them which makes them disgusting isn't it?

Might I suggest you try fighting against this IGN: mynameiszx
He uses 1 Sven Berserker, 1 Talissa and 1 Ronan. I forgot if he goes first or I go first, he is able to use his Sven's summon to cast a spell, followed by his Talissa's summon casting a spell, followed by a Ronan casting a spell. All these three spells will be cast before I can cast any spell at all. I am running 2 Fayes', a Lucille, a Ronan and a Zedd. All have high HP or Magic Resistance and I am not able to withstand that barrage of spells. If that is not OP, what is? 

That's exactly what I meant. You have used one team to challenge his team where your team has failed. But others have other teams which can take him down. For example, GR Kane stunlocking Sven or dropping him to 25% at his turn cast will force him to commit suicide, thereafter dealing with Talissa alone is status quo for the rest of the summoners team. I'm not saying they are not OP, I'm saying we haven't discovered the scissors paper stone element which can work well against summoners. 
Remember, your own team dishes almost no damage until turn 6, while he's probably able to hurt you since turn 3. What if I can hurt him at turn 1? 
That said, I respect your achievements in reaching Legend, so no doubting your abilities there. But I am certain there are ways to take down this fella's teams. In this aspect, those teams that succeed against this team may then fall to yours. 

P.S. this is just theorycraft, I may be just as stupid as I sound to some of you guys.