Valiant Force Forum

Because people are theorizing about how OP having 4 Cassandras is, miyu is also theorizing about ways to get through 4 Cassandras. Some of the strategy does look inefficient against other teams but it will be effective against 4 Cassandras.
She's just trying to prove the point that there are ways to counter Cassandra. So she's not breaking the game, just changing the meta.

sorry, i am not theoryzing, i experienced it, i can give u any scenario as long it's not archer scenario(i don't have the descent one for arena)

I'm just explaining miyu's argument to sniv33 because he keeps missing the point.
I'm neutral about the whole cassandra situation, so just argue with other guys please.

I've read all the post regarding 4x Cassandra on-spawn stacks and most of it made my brain hurt, I'm legit getting brain aneurysm from all the uninformed post and theorycrafting/assumptions. I almost thought the entire thread was a troll because I completely fail to see how it even remotely breaks the game. 

Firstly, let's get this out of the way. What does Cassandra's on-spawn do? It removes 20% of your overall ATK and stacks additively for each Cassandra you run, for a maximum of 80% ATK.

Secondly, against what team archetype does it affect the most? Basically Rangers and Priest triggers, the remaining archetype does not utilize ATK early in the game (for e.g. Mystic + Tank) so this is a non-issue.

Thirdly, you get 80% ATK debuff, but what do you give up? Tankiness of tank+mystic teams, an immediate offensive capability of a ranger/priest team, you run four freaking shadows that are melee and does literally nothing for the first three turns and if they don't get to hit you, plus they're relatively paper af when the debuff runs out.

Lastly, discounting ladder and bundles, you're spending basically 70,000 gems on top of those to get FOUR Cassandra for such gimmick advantage and disadvantage exchange, it is not cost-efficient for what you spend, and it definitely isn't broken at all, if I spent the 70,000 gems on a proper tank + mystic teams instead, you'd be sure I'll have a 100% win rate controlling it, and with the reaction you guys have towards 4x Cassandra, you'd be shitting bricks at the whale tank + mystic teams.

--

In any case, now that we have gotten the basic information surrounding this whole uncalled fiasco out, let's talk about how to deal with 4x Cassandra team. 

Due to boredom, I am kind enough to put up a list of potential counters with proof and a little bit of mathematics in it, enjoy!

• Tank teams- Because they give zero shit about ATK for the first three turns so it is business as usual, it does not matter if you have 20% ATK debuff or 2147483647% ATK debuff, the debuff stacks isn't sufficient enough for them to centre their playstyle around this advantage. If anything, they gained an advantage because they're fighting four shadows instead of your usual line-up with archers putting immediate pressure or a tank + mystic teams with far more threatening synergistic effect between their skills. 

• Archer teams with Resilience Rune- You're giving up 10% of your base ATK in exchange for 20% increase in overall ATK, that is definitely a worthy trade. When Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like Zoey, obviously running Archer + Resilience team would be more beneficial than running say, double strike or just 20% Base ATK runes. It is also important to note that against 4x Cassandra, you'd have 100% effective ATK increase against them. A 16k Archer would lose 12.8k attack and have 3.2k attack left, with Resilience, you'd have 6.4k attack now, with critical, you'd do 9.6k damage, given sufficient trigger, you'd still be able to take out Cassandra walking into the middle tile one by one even if they are defensive-based because they are shadows with limited defensive capabilities and potentials. 
  
  This is also assuming you only have 16k, obviously a spender whale of a much lower calibre relative to a spender capable of procuring four Cassandras in a short time is able to attain a bunch of 16k archers trivially given sufficient time and investment. With power creep factor, an 18k or 20k archer team is not far from your dream within the next couple patches. 
  
  It is also important to note that you have Cybella Gunslinger being able to sleep a Cassandra with skill ready at turn 4 (3 if you're going second), so use that to your advantage.

• Priest teams with Double Resilience- Remember the above post? This is basically just archer teams but with 200% effective damage increase, from retaining 20% ATK -> 60% ATK. Self-explanatory. 

• Elves-
  Transforming a Rhea Glad and following up with a Cassandra Magebane basically means you rape them trivially.
  Transforming a Taegan MW boosts your tempo by delaying one of them and clearing yourself of debuffs, you're ready to be triggered as well.
  Tess GR is able to trigger all of them after they're transformed.
  Altima HD/Pala absorbs and protects your team/returns the damage to them.
  Rhea Dragoon jumps in and it's business as usual, put a Miracle rune and she will just counter-rape them, Death Rouletting her does fuck all because she is able to just shield everyone and trigger the other elves to attack when she drops to 1 HP.
  Raegar Magebane does the same stuff as Taegan MW.
  Emilia Inquisitor transforming and poking any of them will just cause the shadows to kill themselves.

All this theorycrafting hulabaloo, your'e missing one big point about Cassandra, it's their skills that are pretty much OP.  They can rape whatever tank teams you have at your disposal.  They have very fast CD.  The samurai can drop your mystic's magic and make them futile.  They pretty much have it covered against whatever team they are facing. You give me one lineup that can counter 4 Cass and maybe 1 zoey MW support.

I've read all the post regarding 4x Cassandra on-spawn stacks and most of it made my brain hurt, I'm legit getting brain aneurysm from all the uninformed post and theorycrafting/assumptions. I almost thought the entire thread was a troll because I completely fail to see how it even remotely breaks the game. 

Firstly, let's get this out of the way. What does Cassandra's on-spawn do? It removes 20% of your overall ATK and stacks additively for each Cassandra you run, for a maximum of 80% ATK.

Secondly, against what team archetype does it affect the most? Basically Rangers and Priest triggers, the remaining archetype does not utilize ATK early in the game (for e.g. Mystic + Tank) so this is a non-issue.

Thirdly, you get 80% ATK debuff, but what do you give up? Tankiness of tank+mystic teams, an immediate offensive capability of a ranger/priest team, you run four freaking shadows that are melee and does literally nothing for the first three turns and if they don't get to hit you, plus they're relatively paper af when the debuff runs out.

Lastly, discounting ladder and bundles, you're spending basically 70,000 gems on top of those to get FOUR Cassandra for such gimmick advantage and disadvantage exchange, it is not cost-efficient for what you spend, and it definitely isn't broken at all, if I spent the 70,000 gems on a proper tank + mystic teams instead, you'd be sure I'll have a 100% win rate controlling it, and with the reaction you guys have towards 4x Cassandra, you'd be shitting bricks at the whale tank + mystic teams.

--

In any case, now that we have gotten the basic information surrounding this whole uncalled fiasco out, let's talk about how to deal with 4x Cassandra team. 

Due to boredom, I am kind enough to put up a list of potential counters with proof and a little bit of mathematics in it, enjoy!

• Tank teams- Because they give zero shit about ATK for the first three turns so it is business as usual, it does not matter if you have 20% ATK debuff or 2147483647% ATK debuff, the debuff stacks isn't sufficient enough for them to centre their playstyle around this advantage. If anything, they gained an advantage because they're fighting four shadows instead of your usual line-up with archers putting immediate pressure or a tank + mystic teams with far more threatening synergistic effect between their skills. 

• Archer teams with Resilience Rune- You're giving up 10% of your base ATK in exchange for 20% increase in overall ATK, that is definitely a worthy trade. When Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like Zoey, obviously running Archer + Resilience team would be more beneficial than running say, double strike or just 20% Base ATK runes. It is also important to note that against 4x Cassandra, you'd have 100% effective ATK increase against them. A 16k Archer would lose 12.8k attack and have 3.2k attack left, with Resilience, you'd have 6.4k attack now, with critical, you'd do 9.6k damage, given sufficient trigger, you'd still be able to take out Cassandra walking into the middle tile one by one even if they are defensive-based because they are shadows with limited defensive capabilities and potentials. 
  
  This is also assuming you only have 16k, obviously a spender whale of a much lower calibre relative to a spender capable of procuring four Cassandras in a short time is able to attain a bunch of 16k archers trivially given sufficient time and investment. With power creep factor, an 18k or 20k archer team is not far from your dream within the next couple patches. 
  
  It is also important to note that you have Cybella Gunslinger being able to sleep a Cassandra with skill ready at turn 4 (3 if you're going second), so use that to your advantage.

• Priest teams with Double Resilience- Remember the above post? This is basically just archer teams but with 200% effective damage increase, from retaining 20% ATK -> 60% ATK. Self-explanatory. 

• Elves-
  Transforming a Rhea Glad and following up with a Cassandra Magebane basically means you rape them trivially.
  Transforming a Taegan MW boosts your tempo by delaying one of them and clearing yourself of debuffs, you're ready to be triggered as well.
  Tess GR is able to trigger all of them after they're transformed.
  Altima HD/Pala absorbs and protects your team/returns the damage to them.
  Rhea Dragoon jumps in and it's business as usual, put a Miracle rune and she will just counter-rape them, Death Rouletting her does fuck all because she is able to just shield everyone and trigger the other elves to attack when she drops to 1 HP.
  Raegar Magebane does the same stuff as Taegan MW.
  Emilia Inquisitor transforming and poking any of them will just cause the shadows to kill themselves.

okay i will answer only regarding guardian squad then, we can't hold them, u must remember almost Guardian squad using resilence rune so we can't maximize our def, we only can optimize it, if u think guardian can hold theiir physical damage(with full intention to maximize the damage bcs they don't need defense), u are wrong, actually in theory guardian counter is champion, but bcs champion can't hold last in arena they can't do their job,  but recently bcs guardian intent to use resilence skill, shadow also enter the list to be their counter, i will give u an example one of the regular that using shadow in everglades his name Oteph,
to fight any archer except the one that using strong Rhea Dragoon(i forgot his name) or Otepth if i am attacking first, i will push my guardian to the line so she can be mild shield or at least give advantage 75% dmg reduction to all my mystic squad, against Oteph even i am in state of attacking i will not push my guardian, because his shadow(Ninja Shizu if i am not mistaken) is very strong 

my point is i can manage to any squad, like if i am unlucky i will lose, if i am lucky i will win the example about this Xinhuan Squad.
but for 4 Cassandra there is no play in it, the only thing i can think right now maybe Zoey can handle them(bcs she have skill to delay skill & muulti target), what about Teigen(he has & only 2 turn) but teigen only target 1,  Cassandra skill rythm will make us choke, bcs u have feeling that almost no opening to blow them, with 5th Merlin Like sojubeer, completed ur misery i assure u, if u can try it, bcs i already try it many time. 

I've read all the post regarding 4x Cassandra on-spawn stacks and most of it made my brain hurt, I'm legit getting brain aneurysm from all the uninformed post and theorycrafting/assumptions. I almost thought the entire thread was a troll because I completely fail to see how it even remotely breaks the game. 

Firstly, let's get this out of the way. What does Cassandra's on-spawn do? It removes 20% of your overall ATK and stacks additively for each Cassandra you run, for a maximum of 80% ATK.

Secondly, against what team archetype does it affect the most? Basically Rangers and Priest triggers, the remaining archetype does not utilize ATK early in the game (for e.g. Mystic + Tank) so this is a non-issue.

Thirdly, you get 80% ATK debuff, but what do you give up? Tankiness of tank+mystic teams, an immediate offensive capability of a ranger/priest team, you run four freaking shadows that are melee and does literally nothing for the first three turns and if they don't get to hit you, plus they're relatively paper af when the debuff runs out.

Lastly, discounting ladder and bundles, you're spending basically 70,000 gems on top of those to get FOUR Cassandra for such gimmick advantage and disadvantage exchange, it is not cost-efficient for what you spend, and it definitely isn't broken at all, if I spent the 70,000 gems on a proper tank + mystic teams instead, you'd be sure I'll have a 100% win rate controlling it, and with the reaction you guys have towards 4x Cassandra, you'd be shitting bricks at the whale tank + mystic teams.

--

In any case, now that we have gotten the basic information surrounding this whole uncalled fiasco out, let's talk about how to deal with 4x Cassandra team. 

Due to boredom, I am kind enough to put up a list of potential counters with proof and a little bit of mathematics in it, enjoy!

• Tank teams- Because they give zero shit about ATK for the first three turns so it is business as usual, it does not matter if you have 20% ATK debuff or 2147483647% ATK debuff, the debuff stacks isn't sufficient enough for them to centre their playstyle around this advantage. If anything, they gained an advantage because they're fighting four shadows instead of your usual line-up with archers putting immediate pressure or a tank + mystic teams with far more threatening synergistic effect between their skills. 

• Archer teams with Resilience Rune- You're giving up 10% of your base ATK in exchange for 20% increase in overall ATK, that is definitely a worthy trade. When Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like Zoey, obviously running Archer + Resilience team would be more beneficial than running say, double strike or just 20% Base ATK runes. It is also important to note that against 4x Cassandra, you'd have 100% effective ATK increase against them. A 16k Archer would lose 12.8k attack and have 3.2k attack left, with Resilience, you'd have 6.4k attack now, with critical, you'd do 9.6k damage, given sufficient trigger, you'd still be able to take out Cassandra walking into the middle tile one by one even if they are defensive-based because they are shadows with limited defensive capabilities and potentials. 
  
  This is also assuming you only have 16k, obviously a spender whale of a much lower calibre relative to a spender capable of procuring four Cassandras in a short time is able to attain a bunch of 16k archers trivially given sufficient time and investment. With power creep factor, an 18k or 20k archer team is not far from your dream within the next couple patches. 
  
  It is also important to note that you have Cybella Gunslinger being able to sleep a Cassandra with skill ready at turn 4 (3 if you're going second), so use that to your advantage.

• Priest teams with Double Resilience- Remember the above post? This is basically just archer teams but with 200% effective damage increase, from retaining 20% ATK -> 60% ATK. Self-explanatory. 

• Elves-
  Transforming a Rhea Glad and following up with a Cassandra Magebane basically means you rape them trivially.
  Transforming a Taegan MW boosts your tempo by delaying one of them and clearing yourself of debuffs, you're ready to be triggered as well.
  Tess GR is able to trigger all of them after they're transformed.
  Altima HD/Pala absorbs and protects your team/returns the damage to them.
  Rhea Dragoon jumps in and it's business as usual, put a Miracle rune and she will just counter-rape them, Death Rouletting her does fuck all because she is able to just shield everyone and trigger the other elves to attack when she drops to 1 HP.
  Raegar Magebane does the same stuff as Taegan MW.
  Emilia Inquisitor transforming and poking any of them will just cause the shadows to kill themselves.

okay i will answer only regarding guardian squad then, we can't hold them, u must remember almost Guardian squad using resilence rune so we can't maximize our def, we only can optimize it, if u think guardian can hold theiir physical damage(with full intention to maximize the damage bcs they don't need defense), u are wrong, actually in theory guardian counter is champion, but bcs champion can't hold last in arena they can't do their job,  but recently bcs guardian intent to use resilence skill, shadow also enter the list to be their counter, i will give u an example one of the regular that using shadow in everglades his name Oteph,
to fight any archer except the one that using strong Rhea Dragoon(i forgot his name) or Otepth if i am attacking first, i will push my guardian to the line so she can be mild shield or at least give advantage 75% dmg reduction to all my mystic squad, against Oteph even i am in state of attacking i will not push my guardian, because his shadow(Ninja Shizu if i am not mistaken) is very strong 

my point is i can manage to any squad, like if i am unlucky i will lose, if i am lucky i will win the example about this Xinhuan Squad.
but for 4 Cassandra there is no play in it, the only thing i can think right now maybe Zoey can handle them(bcs she have skill to delay skill & muulti target), what about Teigen(he has & only 2 turn) but teigen only target 1,  Cassandra skill rythm will make us choke, bcs u have feeling that almost no opening to blow them, with 5th Merlin Like sojubeer, completed ur misery i assure u, if u can try it, bcs i already try it many time. 

No play? I just stated about 4 general lineups that counter them, and not only that, any variation of them would work- I have many friends and guildmates that attempted to fight Sojubeer in a test run in his friend list, and they can all win him, whereas before he switched to 4 Cass, there was no doubt that everyone would've skipped him, if anything, we'd all rather fight his new 4 Cass team than his earlier Merlin + tank team rofl.

okay i will answer only regarding guardian squad then, we can't hold them, u must remember almost Guardian squad using resilence rune so we can't maximize our def, we only can optimize it, if u think guardian can hold theiir physical damage(with full intention to maximize the damage bcs they don't need defense), u are wrong, actually in theory guardian counter is champion, but bcs champion can't hold last in arena they can't do their job,  but recently bcs guardian intent to use resilence skill, shadow also enter the list to be their counter, i will give u an example one of the regular that using shadow in everglades his name Oteph,
to fight any archer except the one that using strong Rhea Dragoon(i forgot his name) or Otepth if i am attacking first, i will push my guardian to the line so she can be mild shield or at least give advantage 75% dmg reduction to all my mystic squad, against Oteph even i am in state of attacking i will not push my guardian, because his shadow(Ninja Shizu if i am not mistaken) is very strong 

my point is i can manage to any squad, like if i am unlucky i will lose, if i am lucky i will win the example about this Xinhuan Squad.
but for 4 Cassandra there is no play in it, the only thing i can think right now maybe Zoey can handle them(bcs she have skill to delay skill & muulti target), what about Teigen(he has & only 2 turn) but teigen only target 1,  Cassandra skill rythm will make us choke, bcs u have feeling that almost no opening to blow them, with 5th Merlin Like sojubeer, completed ur misery i assure u, if u can try it, bcs i already try it many time. 

No play? I just stated about 4 general lineups that counter them, and not only that, any variation of them would work- I have many friends and guildmates that attempted to fight Sojubeer in a test run in his friend list, and they can all win him, whereas before he switched to 4 Cass, there was no doubt that everyone would've skipped him, if anything, we'd all rather fight his new 4 Cass team than his earlier Merlin + tank team rofl.

in contrary for me, i can beat his previous Squad, & i have ss about that, maybe u can ask ur friend to enlight us here, so we can learn how to do that if u may

Just to add to this thread, I would rather fight Soju's 4 Cass team than his previous Merlin + tank team. The 4 Cass team has way more counters than his Merlin + tank team.

I've read all the post regarding 4x Cassandra on-spawn stacks and most of it made my brain hurt, I'm legit getting brain aneurysm from all the uninformed post and theorycrafting/assumptions. I almost thought the entire thread was a troll because I completely fail to see how it even remotely breaks the game. 

Firstly, let's get this out of the way. What does Cassandra's on-spawn do? It removes 20% of your overall ATK and stacks additively for each Cassandra you run, for a maximum of 80% ATK.

Secondly, against what team archetype does it affect the most? Basically Rangers and Priest triggers, the remaining archetype does not utilize ATK early in the game (for e.g. Mystic + Tank) so this is a non-issue.

Thirdly, you get 80% ATK debuff, but what do you give up? Tankiness of tank+mystic teams, an immediate offensive capability of a ranger/priest team, you run four freaking shadows that are melee and does literally nothing for the first three turns and if they don't get to hit you, plus they're relatively paper af when the debuff runs out.

Lastly, discounting ladder and bundles, you're spending basically 70,000 gems on top of those to get FOUR Cassandra for such gimmick advantage and disadvantage exchange, it is not cost-efficient for what you spend, and it definitely isn't broken at all, if I spent the 70,000 gems on a proper tank + mystic teams instead, you'd be sure I'll have a 100% win rate controlling it, and with the reaction you guys have towards 4x Cassandra, you'd be shitting bricks at the whale tank + mystic teams.

--

In any case, now that we have gotten the basic information surrounding this whole uncalled fiasco out, let's talk about how to deal with 4x Cassandra team. 

Due to boredom, I am kind enough to put up a list of potential counters with proof and a little bit of mathematics in it, enjoy!

• Tank teams- Because they give zero shit about ATK for the first three turns so it is business as usual, it does not matter if you have 20% ATK debuff or 2147483647% ATK debuff, the debuff stacks isn't sufficient enough for them to centre their playstyle around this advantage. If anything, they gained an advantage because they're fighting four shadows instead of your usual line-up with archers putting immediate pressure or a tank + mystic teams with far more threatening synergistic effect between their skills. 

• Archer teams with Resilience Rune- You're giving up 10% of your base ATK in exchange for 20% increase in overall ATK, that is definitely a worthy trade. When Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like Zoey, obviously running Archer + Resilience team would be more beneficial than running say, double strike or just 20% Base ATK runes. It is also important to note that against 4x Cassandra, you'd have 100% effective ATK increase against them. A 16k Archer would lose 12.8k attack and have 3.2k attack left, with Resilience, you'd have 6.4k attack now, with critical, you'd do 9.6k damage, given sufficient trigger, you'd still be able to take out Cassandra walking into the middle tile one by one even if they are defensive-based because they are shadows with limited defensive capabilities and potentials. 
  
  This is also assuming you only have 16k, obviously a spender whale of a much lower calibre relative to a spender capable of procuring four Cassandras in a short time is able to attain a bunch of 16k archers trivially given sufficient time and investment. With power creep factor, an 18k or 20k archer team is not far from your dream within the next couple patches. 
  
  It is also important to note that you have Cybella Gunslinger being able to sleep a Cassandra with skill ready at turn 4 (3 if you're going second), so use that to your advantage.

• Priest teams with Double Resilience- Remember the above post? This is basically just archer teams but with 200% effective damage increase, from retaining 20% ATK -> 60% ATK. Self-explanatory. 

• Elves-
  Transforming a Rhea Glad and following up with a Cassandra Magebane basically means you rape them trivially.
  Transforming a Taegan MW boosts your tempo by delaying one of them and clearing yourself of debuffs, you're ready to be triggered as well.
  Tess GR is able to trigger all of them after they're transformed.
  Altima HD/Pala absorbs and protects your team/returns the damage to them.
  Rhea Dragoon jumps in and it's business as usual, put a Miracle rune and she will just counter-rape them, Death Rouletting her does fuck all because she is able to just shield everyone and trigger the other elves to attack when she drops to 1 HP.
  Raegar Magebane does the same stuff as Taegan MW.
  Emilia Inquisitor transforming and poking any of them will just cause the shadows to kill themselves.

All this theorycrafting hulabaloo, your'e missing one big point about Cassandra, it's their skills that are pretty much OP.  They can rape whatever tank teams you have at your disposal.  They have very fast CD.  The samurai can drop your mystic's magic and make them futile.  They pretty much have it covered against whatever team they are facing. You give me one lineup that can counter 4 Cass and maybe 1 zoey MW support.

Cassandra Magebane has 4 CD skill, meaning even if you go first or second- Raegar Magebane got it covered, Taegan MW got it covered.

Kiera RM, Dragoon Rhea, Taegan MW, Magebane Cassandra, Merlin Warlock.
Any trigger teams with Resilience can rape them. 
Any variation of tank + mystic teams with Taegan MW and/or Raegar Magebane included.

Just to add to this thread, I would rather fight Soju's 4 Cass team than his previous Merlin + tank team. The 4 Cass team has way more counters than his Merlin + tank team.

That is beside the point of discussion.  What I am trying to stress here is you are the player in control of the squad.  The 4 Cass meta is the probably going to be the first meta that is almost invincible.  Meaning you would be able to attain 100% or close to 100% win rate in arena.  I only implore everyone to have a little foresight. 

As for the current arena scene, we are seeing a push and pull between the firepower of archer squads versus the defense tank teams.  No tank team can truly have 100% win rate against the strongest archers at the moment.  Probably only Soju at the moment can attain 100% against the strongest archer team because of his godly equips.  The 4 Cass can easily beat any top caliber archer squad with just decent equipment.

The issue at hand is about arena meta diversity.  That's why I said I this is the first time I appreciate the presence of archer teams in arena because it prevents one type of meta from completely dominating in the arena.  The 4 Cass will ruin arena diversity.

What I actually fear is that the devs will just leave it as is and just implement another dark lord to counter Cass team, then that will probably be the end of the road for me in VF, when VF dev team will pursue the path of making the arena scene a dark lord only friendly environment.

All this theorycrafting hulabaloo, your'e missing one big point about Cassandra, it's their skills that are pretty much OP.  They can rape whatever tank teams you have at your disposal.  They have very fast CD.  The samurai can drop your mystic's magic and make them futile.  They pretty much have it covered against whatever team they are facing. You give me one lineup that can counter 4 Cass and maybe 1 zoey MW support.

Cassandra Magebane has 4 CD skill, meaning even if you go first or second- Raegar Magebane got it covered, Taegan MW got it covered.

Kiera RM, Dragoon Rhea, Taegan MW, Magebane Cassandra, Merlin Warlock.
Any trigger teams with Resilience can rape them. 
Any variation of tank + mystic teams with Taegan MW and/or Raegar Magebane included.

There's your first mistake.  No amount of resilience can help you against 4x Cass.  It will have 4x resilience debuff at spawm.

When you employ Taegen and/or Rheagar in your squad, you will be facing a dilemma which Cass to target.  Each one of them are equally deadly. MB has magic debuff with moderate damage, Samurai will have insane amount of damage against non-tank teams, probably party wipe with his omnislash against non-tank teams, ninja can jump within your backline before 1st round ends, and probably wipe your entire team with one swing on 2nd round, and assassin skill is deadly whatever way you look at it and also very hard to kill.

But the real issue I am trying to stress here, please check my post above.