Valiant Force Forum

There are still many ways to make 4-cass user almost invulnerable to ranger teams. It will have to depend on the 5th Man on ur team. One wuold be a T-formation with arthur at front and center, and my choice of 5th man would be lucille SW. Lucille SW or any char with heal trigger aura wihll 100% do that trick to make it invul.

Most still don't get what i meant about 4-Cass breaking the game. Its not about you beating a 4-Cass user AI. What I meant by it and I have been stressing it over and over again, it will be easy for a 4-Cass user to achieve 100% win ratio, thus breaking the meta. The above sample are just my personal ideas at the top of my head. I'm pretty sure others can come up with better ideas.

Soju has a 99%/100% win rate EVEN before this Cassandra nonsense came out, and I honestly don't think he's actually getting a 100% win rate with this new squad.
In any case, AIs are retarded, why do you bother so much about offensive win rate? I think most, if not, all are concerned about not being able to beat it or finding a counter-strategy to it, you seem to be the only one concerned about the user being able to achieve 100% win rate. 
Also, and again, Rangers/Priests with Resilience can easily punish such lineup, AI or not is irrelevant, you do fuck-all for the first three turns, the AI will just rape you either way.

There are still many ways to make 4-cass user almost invulnerable to ranger teams. It will have to depend on the 5th Man on ur team. One wuold be a T-formation with arthur at front and center, and my choice of 5th man would be lucille SW. Lucille SW or any char with heal trigger aura wihll 100% do that trick to make it invul.

Most still don't get what i meant about 4-Cass breaking the game. Its not about you beating a 4-Cass user AI. What I meant by it and I have been stressing it over and over again, it will be easy for a 4-Cass user to achieve 100% win ratio, thus breaking the meta. The above sample are just my personal ideas at the top of my head. I'm pretty sure others can come up with better ideas.

Soju has a 99%/100% win rate EVEN before this Cassandra nonsense came out, and I honestly don't think he's actually getting a 100% win rate with this new squad.
In any case, AIs are retarded, why do you bother so much about offensive win rate? I think most, if not, all are concerned about not being able to beat it or finding a counter-strategy to it, you seem to be the only one concerned about the user being able to achieve 100% win rate. 
Also, and again, Rangers/Priests with Resilience can easily punish such lineup, AI or not is irrelevant, you do fuck-all for the first three turns, the AI will just rape you either way.

Using resilience on priests and rangers will diminish your attack by at least 10%, probably close to 15%, so your damage output with resilience will only be improved by less than 10%. That's why I said it seems counterproductive if you're going to reconfigure your runes to a specific type of squad but in turn makes you less efficient against the rest of the arena formations.

The reason I am focusing about 4-cass user-controlled win rate is because, every other type of squad up to this time cannot easily reach 100% win rate.  Soju is an exception because he has godly equips.  This trend concerns me, because future arena will be rigged with Dark Lord filled squad, while the rest of the population who cannot afford multiple Dark lords in their squad will be left in the dust.

Trust me, I can easily make the 4-Cass team invul against archer squad with Lucille SW.  There is a certain type of formation that can guarantee that. I'm never going to be able to afford multiple dark lords, but there are many whales out there who are going to complete it eventually.  Thus making VF completely a P2W game.

This trend of Dark Lords being too overpowered is very worrisome to me.  I believe when DL guardian comes out, this game will surely be fucked up.

There are still many ways to make 4-cass user almost invulnerable to ranger teams. It will have to depend on the 5th Man on ur team. One wuold be a T-formation with arthur at front and center, and my choice of 5th man would be lucille SW. Lucille SW or any char with heal trigger aura wihll 100% do that trick to make it invul.

Most still don't get what i meant about 4-Cass breaking the game. Its not about you beating a 4-Cass user AI. What I meant by it and I have been stressing it over and over again, it will be easy for a 4-Cass user to achieve 100% win ratio, thus breaking the meta. The above sample are just my personal ideas at the top of my head. I'm pretty sure others can come up with better ideas.

I totally understand your sentiments. However, I am more inclined on stressing the against a Cassandra over using a Cassandra lineup because this game doesn't really give you points for a successful defense in PvP. That is the reason why I didn't discuss much about being the Cassandra user. Isn't the top 1 or 2 almost a 100% winrate anyway?

I believe Soju is the only player who can achieve 100% constantly every arena season.  He is an exception to the rule.

As I have said before, arena ranking dynamics is determined by the strength of top archer squads.  I was able to achieve top 2 or 3 rank in arena before the end of the season on several occasions because of certain factors.  Getting in top 5 arena, as for me personally, it requires 1x orb recharge per day, no repick for the entire season, and about 99% win rate, that will be approximately 190 wins and around 5 loss or less before arena season ends.  My success in arena is always determined by the strength of top archers.  There will be days when I can achieve 100% win rate against any archer team in the server, but whenever a new content gets implemented for archers, I take a dive again in my arena rank.  Like I said, there is a push and pull between the strength of archers and tank teams.  This is basically the dynamics in arena that determines top arena ranking.  That's why I've been stressing that I appreciate the presence of archers now more than ever, because they are dictating the type of meta for top players.

That's why I got infuriated with the introduction of the 2nd Dark Lord being too OP once again.   Having multiple Dark Lords can easily overcome the dynamics I have stated above.  And I'm seeing a very terrible trend, and the future of arena meta is going to be really ugly, strictly a P2W scenario.

There are still many ways to make 4-cass user almost invulnerable to ranger teams. It will have to depend on the 5th Man on ur team. One wuold be a T-formation with arthur at front and center, and my choice of 5th man would be lucille SW. Lucille SW or any char with heal trigger aura wihll 100% do that trick to make it invul.

Most still don't get what i meant about 4-Cass breaking the game. Its not about you beating a 4-Cass user AI. What I meant by it and I have been stressing it over and over again, it will be easy for a 4-Cass user to achieve 100% win ratio, thus breaking the meta. The above sample are just my personal ideas at the top of my head. I'm pretty sure others can come up with better ideas.

I totally understand your sentiments. However, I am more inclined on stressing the against a Cassandra over using a Cassandra lineup because this game doesn't really give you points for a successful defense in PvP. That is the reason why I didn't discuss much about being the Cassandra user. Isn't the top 1 or 2 almost a 100% winrate anyway?

I believe Soju is the only player who can achieve 100% constantly every arena season.  He is an exception to the rule.

As I have said before, arena ranking dynamics is determined by the strength of top archer squads.  I was able to achieve top 2 or 3 rank in arena before the end of the season on several occasions because of certain factors.  Getting in top 5 arena, as for me personally, it requires 1x orb recharge per day, no repick for the entire season, and about 99% win rate, that will be approximately 190 wins and around 5 loss or less before arena season ends.  My success in arena is always determined by the strength of top archers.  There will be days when I can achieve 100% win rate against any archer team in the server, but whenever a new content gets implemented for archers, I take a dive again in my arena rank.  Like I said, there is a push and pull between the strength of archers and tank teams.  This is basically the dynamics in arena that determines top arena ranking.  That's why I've been stressing that I appreciate the presence of archers now more than ever, because they are dictating the type of meta for top players.

That's why I got infuriated with the introduction of the 2nd Dark Lord being too OP once again.   Having multiple Dark Lords can easily overcome the dynamics I have stated above.  And I'm seeing a very terrible trend, and the future of arena meta is going to be really ugly, strictly a P2W scenario.

Are you implying that you do not want the introduction of Cassandra because the archer teams that you can handle pretty well will have to react and potentially be outperformed by another lineup which you are not sure you can reliably beat? I don't like the existence of rangers because they totally limit what is viable among squad lineups but I don't want them gone, that's for sure. Having a lineup that actually checks trigger teams is so nice for a change so a shift in meta will occur. With this meta shift, hopefully it may open up squad formations that we very rarely see.

On a side note, isn't the higher tiers almost a P2W meta, to begin with? I totally understand what can happen with the introduction of Cassandra but before she arrived, isn't the top 50 almost infested by whales already?

PS: I don't mean to offend in any way.

I totally understand your sentiments. However, I am more inclined on stressing the against a Cassandra over using a Cassandra lineup because this game doesn't really give you points for a successful defense in PvP. That is the reason why I didn't discuss much about being the Cassandra user. Isn't the top 1 or 2 almost a 100% winrate anyway?

I believe Soju is the only player who can achieve 100% constantly every arena season.  He is an exception to the rule.

As I have said before, arena ranking dynamics is determined by the strength of top archer squads.  I was able to achieve top 2 or 3 rank in arena before the end of the season on several occasions because of certain factors.  Getting in top 5 arena, as for me personally, it requires 1x orb recharge per day, no repick for the entire season, and about 99% win rate, that will be approximately 190 wins and around 5 loss or less before arena season ends.  My success in arena is always determined by the strength of top archers.  There will be days when I can achieve 100% win rate against any archer team in the server, but whenever a new content gets implemented for archers, I take a dive again in my arena rank.  Like I said, there is a push and pull between the strength of archers and tank teams.  This is basically the dynamics in arena that determines top arena ranking.  That's why I've been stressing that I appreciate the presence of archers now more than ever, because they are dictating the type of meta for top players.

That's why I got infuriated with the introduction of the 2nd Dark Lord being too OP once again.   Having multiple Dark Lords can easily overcome the dynamics I have stated above.  And I'm seeing a very terrible trend, and the future of arena meta is going to be really ugly, strictly a P2W scenario.

Are you implying that you do not want the introduction of Cassandra because the archer teams that you can handle pretty well will have to react and potentially be outperformed by another lineup which you are not sure you can reliably beat? I don't like the existence of rangers because they totally limit what is viable among squad lineups but I don't want them gone, that's for sure. Having a lineup that actually checks trigger teams is so nice for a change so a shift in meta will occur. With this meta shift, hopefully it may open up squad formations that we very rarely see.

On a side note, isn't the higher tiers almost a P2W meta, to begin with? I totally understand what can happen with the introduction of Cassandra but before she arrived, isn't the top 50 almost infested by whales already?

PS: I don't mean to offend in any way.

No offense taken. What I am saying is it takes a monumental effort to build a squad capable of handling top arena archers even for whales and most espevially the non-whales such as myself, but the dawn of multi DL squad takes the easy route.


But anyway, this topic has dragged on for far too long. I have stated everyrthing I needed to say to the VF team. I will just agree to disagree with the rest of the forumers here.

4x cass in one squad equals to very happy devs

End of discussion

You did not acknowledged miyu's statement and your argument was ambiguous whether you supported or against her argument. I took that as missing the point.

I guess I'll make where I stand clear, then. I personally think 4 Cassandra is ridiculously powerful. However, I second SOME of Miyu's points about her opinion on this squad lineup. There are some counters but they are not hard counters, that's for sure. I also think that ranger teams have a chance versus 4 Cassandra lineup but it needs a bit of luck. If a Cassandra is built offensively, that means her DEF stat would hardly reach 4k and -80% of 15k ATK is still ~3k ATK for a ranger. Rangers could still take out a Cassandra or two during the debuff but they must be able to bring down at least one to have a chance(isn't a ranger squad's win condition delete everybody before they delete you, anyway?) of winning. I also agree that this will diversify the PvP meta because I might not be at the top 100 but I'm dangling close (~130 in my server currently) so I do think my experiences are fairly credible. Every PvP match, I get matched with 4 or 5 rangers and RNGesus blesses the whales who can afford to buy the luck, if you know what I mean. Therefore, seeing how rangers would now have some tricky matchups against them would make some players adapt to this, allowing some of the obscure squad lineups to have a better time versus trigger lineups.

However, I also acknowledge the fact that 4 Cassandra is OP and has very niche counters and checks and I can definitely see it crowding the top 100 soon because top 100=top whales mostly, anyway. What I am emphasizing on is that the devs will most likely not do anything about it because come on, why would they want to hurt their paying customers, especially those who they can milk GOLD? If I were a businessman, I'd be pleasing them because that's where I get the most value. Therefore, don't expect the devs to do anything about it. Lately, they've no shame in expressing their love for whales and I think most of us can see it.

This mostly points out what I am trying to say.  The entire reason behind my rant is that devs are continuously moving forward towards paid exclusive meta.  And I seriously doubt they would do anything to remedy this. Especially when there is seemingly lack of outrage towards this trend.  Instead, what I think the devs would do about this issue is to introduce another OP Dark Lord character which will be able to counter this meta.  This will be the future of arena.  It's going to be a Dark Lord only friendly environment.  That's just what the people who think that this is issue is just pointless whining fail to grasp.  They are not looking at the bigger picture here.

I do recognize that Devs want to pamper the whales, but what they also fail to realize, 90% of the community are F2P to mid-range spenders.  This business strategy may make the whales happy, but you will be alienating 90% of population.  The game population is what really makes any game vibrant and truly alive. If these, 90% finally get's exasperated, the server or the entire game will start to die a slow death.

I believe the VF team has already recouped its investment and is now starting to make VF it's cash cow with no long-term investment in the game.

by the time only dark lord can compete in arena, that's the time i will say farewell to vf

I really need to pull the big thinker out of the box. As the x4 Cassandra of this topic is quite Mis-leading.

To be realistic, there will be close to 1%(or more) of player who will buy bundles or get reward in top 100 for At least One Cassandra.
Then, about less than 1% of players will do BOTH of above to get AT least Two Cassandra.
Lastly, it will be less than 100 person to get Three or More Cassandra.

What really matters here, IS DEFITENLY not Sojudog's x4 Cassandra squad, but the possibly more than 1% user who get 1~2 Cassandra.
No matter which Tier they are currently at, they will step up the rank quickly and put a middle finger in EVERYone else face who didnt own at least 1 Dark Lord (Zoey or Cassandra), because as of one, Two Dark Lord automatically put the tanks at freezer, unless you also have 2 dark lords up to your sleeves.
---------------above is what I'm trying to make clear direction of this post intention, which I think it has swayed off too much ---------
---------------below is what I'm Fed up with Valiant Force as a long time player and payer (whom stopped supporting with even emiko now)----------
Then, my point is how the majority of top 200, or maybe even top 5000 players will deal with such power creep. Making Cassandra avaible AS SHARDS and fucking 30-pity-giveaway does not justify this is an act of PAYWALL, and this is against many many ethics in gaming industry. I hope one day all other game outside of Japan will die off within 1 year or even less before hurting more players on the market. (Congrats VF, you survived more than 1 year, but can you do it for another year?)

Make things transparency, and don't fucking impose a Cash-only content, what the fuck with the Cash Bundle Skin? (Calendar or on-shot, does not matter)
When you first introduced Gems-Skin, it was expensive, but accepted by most. But why did you turn greedy and launch a 15 Valinite price tag? (which is definitely more expansive than even, say 800 gems), and lastly, the Ultimate Cash-grab, with 2000 gems or 100 Valinite, if you are not a real currency payer, just Fuck off - said VF.

I really need to pull the big thinker out of the box. As the x4 Cassandra of this topic is quite Mis-leading.

To be realistic, there will be close to 1%(or more) of player who will buy bundles or get reward in top 100 for At least One Cassandra.
Then, about less than 1% of players will do BOTH of above to get AT least Two Cassandra.
Lastly, it will be less than 100 person to get Three or More Cassandra.

What really matters here, IS DEFITENLY not Sojudog's x4 Cassandra squad, but the possibly more than 1% user who get 1~2 Cassandra.
No matter which Tier they are currently at, they will step up the rank quickly and put a middle finger in EVERYone else face who didnt own at least 1 Dark Lord (Zoey or Cassandra), because as of one, Two Dark Lord automatically put the tanks at freezer, unless you also have 2 dark lords up to your sleeves.
---------------above is what I'm trying to make clear direction of this post intention, which I think it has swayed off too much ---------
---------------below is what I'm Fed up with Valiant Force as a long time player and payer (whom stopped supporting with even emiko now)----------
Then, my point is how the majority of top 200, or maybe even top 5000 players will deal with such power creep. Making Cassandra avaible AS SHARDS and fucking 30-pity-giveaway does not justify this is an act of PAYWALL, and this is against many many ethics in gaming industry. I hope one day all other game outside of Japan will die off within 1 year or even less before hurting more players on the market. (Congrats VF, you survived more than 1 year, but can you do it for another year?)

Make things transparency, and don't fucking impose a Cash-only content, what the fuck with the Cash Bundle Skin? (Calendar or on-shot, does not matter)
When you first introduced Gems-Skin, it was expensive, but accepted by most. But why did you turn greedy and launch a 15 Valinite price tag? (which is definitely more expansive than even, say 800 gems), and lastly, the Ultimate Cash-grab, with 2000 gems or 100 Valinite, if you are not a real currency payer, just Fuck off - said VF.

The moment this games become a dark lord meta, I am sure everyone not in the top 200 in their servers and even some from there will say goodbye to this game. Therefore, with the direction this game is going, I don't think this'll last another year, tbh.

Brave Frontier has been around for 4 years with their obnoxious powercreeping and maybe you'd need to spend more cash and even more often just to get newer, stronger units.

VF is like you pay certain amount and do mild grinding to get one of the strongest units. And we all see how Zoey who is half a year old still doing great. In BF I dont think an unit wont get outclassed for more than a month.

VF is very desperate for money not because they're lacking funds. It's because we gave them too much they are asking for more.