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ScherBR
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Why bad pull rates are not always a bad thing

Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:25 pm

First of all, I'm not defending this practice at all, but I think we need to rethink the mindset that bad bull rates are a bad thing for Valiant Force in the long run.
 
This game was not designed so that everyone can have 2584 copies of the same hero to limit break everyone of then in every possible job available.
 
Limit Breaking at least right now is not necessary for anything; you gain some better status but only this will not make you win the game. Without strategy, your squad may be good for nothing. With a good strategy you can certainly win against a full limit broken enemy in the arena per example.
 
Putting things in perspective: Right now, I think that the chances to get a 5* possible hero from premium summon is something like 10%. Let’s say, if the game had triple rates for 5* capable heroes. We would be getting an average of 3 5* capable units from a 10x Premium Summon. Well, how this could break the game in the long run?
 
Bad rates limit your resources for you to be creative with what you have, if the rates are too high, everyone would have the same heroes eventually, everyone using the same formations and the same strategies following some defined meta. What good this can bring?
 
The game gives you a Valiant Hero Ticket every 28 days of login, so even if you have some really bad luck you can at least get a valiant every month, a lot of other games don’t do that, you can even choose the path the job for your valiant, opening even more options for players.
 
If everyone can grab the new hero for every new banner, how would they moderate their income to keep the game alive? If a large number of players can have the same hero they will have to create a new hero that can attract that player to summon for him, creating what we call POWERCREEP, if everyone has access to every hero that becomes available in the summon gate people will make good balanced squads for every purpose in the game, so why would they summon again? Unless if the hero is a real upgrade of the past heroes, they will not summon! And this will affect the devs income. So they start to creat unbalanced heroes that attracts people attention to get more stronger heroes. The cycle will repeat himself, so the devs may get to the point of adding a new evolution, like 6* heroes. Invalidating our heroes to create a new urge to summon new heroes that can survive the new content. This destroys the game little by little.
 
Brave Frontier is a good example of this kind of practice. In the beginning, heroes were really diverse, each one worked differently from one another, you needed to think about a suitable team for every need, as every hero had different uses. The rates were not that bad, people eventually started getting all the meta heroes fast and clearing all hard content. To capitalize, they started to create more powerful heroes that were like the junction of two different heroes, so it was like this: - “Oh, You have a Healer and you have a Tank… but now there is a Tank Healer in the Summon Gates!! Go summon!” And they created content were that kind of hero were almost obligated to clear. So, now that I have a Tank Healer I’m safe, why I would need another Healer? - “We know that everyone has a Tank Healer now days! So, what you think of an Tank Healer Support that also mitigates damage? Go Summon!” And the rates were dropping, and dropping, and dropping… and the do-all heroes getting more and more absurd.
 
This kept going on and on, and on with powercreep units with more than 20 buffs being applied on a single attack! BAD DESIGN! BAD DECISIONS FROM THE GAME DEVS! Now Brave Frontier is a shadow of his past, and already lost more than 50% of his fanbase in the last year.
 
Powercreep is an ugly thing and is what destroys a lot of gacha games, you will see 8* heroes (hello again Brave Frontier) with huge difference from other heroes, they quickly becoming mandatory to clear content, breaking past even the game mechanics (is been more than 2 years since heroes can break the damage cap there).
 
Back to Valiant Force, this game does not have an abysmal difference in performance from a 4* Hero Limit Broken (not so difficult to get) to a 5* Hero not Limit Broken. I’m still using two 4* Heroes in the Arena!
 
Valiant Force wants you to keep summoning, so they give you lots of ways to earn Gems (Gem Cavern helps a lot). Their generosity with gems justify the so called “Bad Rates” from premium heroes. Another thing that also helps: The Gem price is not something outrageous as I’ve seen in some other games (hello Tales of Link). The devs here know that you will be getting 5* capable heroes with time but with a lot of jobs, you will need time and think about what path you want to go, leaving some strategies to build in the future, and in the future, there will be new strategies that new heroes will bring, no one needs to have every hero to clear content! Be creative with what you have, ask for help and keep progressing, you will get stronger with time.
 
So guys, think a little about pushing the Devs to better the rates from pulls, do you want everyone to be able to get every single hero released every single banner? Staling the meta and creating possible powercreep to keep interest from paying players? Or you guys want to have more options to build your team? With new diverse heroes that brings new mechanics and strategies to the table, without really surpassing old units? If you can’t get one banner hero, try latter, and if you still can’t get it? I’m sure you will eventually get another Hero that can also do the job.
 
Sorry for the long wall of text again.
Good luck to all of us :)
 
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Celty
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Re: Why bad pull rates are not always a bad thing

Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:58 pm

i agree i have no problem with the rates at all neither with the friends i invited to play with me for official launch... they may have many winrys but they have lots of 5 star potential units too. even with bad luck you will eventually have a full 5 star party and more.

the one thing which annoys me the most is the strict job restriction which may affect the more casual players who didn't do much research before selecting their jobs, or even if a meta change occurs those without spare 5 star potential units will suffer for a long course of time due to the amount of resources and planning required to make a new party.

i dont know how to fix this though and i dont think removing the restriction is a good idea at all because the game is balanced based on that.
 
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Crazyfight
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Re: Why bad pull rates are not always a bad thing

Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:03 pm

The rate must be suck
If you have a building that give you gem and high pull rate
more fodder, job keys and gold require for each hero come to your tavern
You angry for not getting 5* potential, if they give you what you need you will lack job key and gold when spender will just walk to the shop and turn this game to p2w, if you suggest to solve problem with increase 5* hero summon, you will complain about bad faith and stuff
Also they don't create a bunch of 3* and 4* for no reason
 
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Celty
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Re: Why bad pull rates are not always a bad thing

Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:32 pm

1 thing to help the newer players more willing and an incentive to spend and stay on the game is make something like suggested here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=910
something like first time bonus or bonus pull or whatever helps in case someone gets bad pulls many times in a row.

definitely not increasing the rate itself.
 
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Cremathick
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Re: Why bad pull rates are not always a bad thing

Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:49 pm

Personally, I have no problem with the draw rates.
I see that bunch of people are complaining about the rates, which made me cringe a lot.
I must say that, even with bad heroes or whatever you got from summons, it will become your foundations.
"How so? I only have 4* potential units, with bad faiths! This is just plain ridiculous!"
We does have a starter Valiant. 5* able, and will help you progress through (Except if you start with a Lucille, then you decided to draw, only to pull more healers. But, hey, teleporting stuffs, AoE disables, poisons, and more seems fun!).
For example, an invested team that consist of Slayer Dante/Fiona, Crusader Leon, Hunter/Marksman Aaron, Hunter Winry, and Inquisitor Lucille, regardless the faith, is still a good composition.
"Whoa, I got a 5* potential! But, I wasted resources on those measly 4*! Regret! Huuuge mistakes!"
Nope, you are not. Even if you won't be using them anymore after you have those 5* to replace them, they are the results of your hard work of not giving up, and the trust you still have.
They are not wasting your time. They are what you have at the earlier stage, and you need them to progress. With a 5*, you can progress even more! (If you know what you're doing).
There are lots of people with works to do. I know. Games like this requires lots of time to be spent in order to be enjoyable, as you'll unlock more contents as you level up.
I also believe that there are those still actively playing even with only 4* squads. And yes, eventually you'll get those 5*.
What I'm trying to say is, even with bad rates, as long as you can enjoy and be grateful to what is being given to you, you'll survive.
I honestly appreciate the devs for creating this game.
It hasn't been such a long time since this game was released, the devs will keep improving it, learning from mistakes, and hands out the right judgement. Not everything is perfectly done. Even amongst perfection, there bounds to be flaws in the eyes of different people.
This is just my personal opinion about people that are complaining about draw rates. Feel free to agree/disagree :D
 
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Kristofbruyninckx
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Re: Why bad pull rates are not always a bad thing

Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:11 pm

Personally, I have no problem with the draw rates.
I see that bunch of people are complaining about the rates, which made me cringe a lot.
I must say that, even with bad heroes or whatever you got from summons, it will become your foundations.
"How so? I only have 4* potential units, with bad faiths! This is just plain ridiculous!"
We does have a starter Valiant. 5* able, and will help you progress through (Except if you start with a Lucille, then you decided to draw, only to pull more healers. But, hey, teleporting stuffs, AoE disables, poisons, and more seems fun!).
For example, an invested team that consist of Slayer Dante/Fiona, Crusader Leon, Hunter/Marksman Aaron, Hunter Winry, and Inquisitor Lucille, regardless the faith, is still a good composition.
"Whoa, I got a 5* potential! But, I wasted resources on those measly 4*! Regret! Huuuge mistakes!"
Nope, you are not. Even if you won't be using them anymore after you have those 5* to replace them, they are the results of your hard work of not giving up, and the trust you still have.
They are not wasting your time. They are what you have at the earlier stage, and you need them to progress. With a 5*, you can progress even more! (If you know what you're doing).
There are lots of people with works to do. I know. Games like this requires lots of time to be spent in order to be enjoyable, as you'll unlock more contents as you level up.
I also believe that there are those still actively playing even with only 4* squads. And yes, eventually you'll get those 5*.
What I'm trying to say is, even with bad rates, as long as you can enjoy and be grateful to what is being given to you, you'll survive.
I honestly appreciate the devs for creating this game.
It hasn't been such a long time since this game was released, the devs will keep improving it, learning from mistakes, and hands out the right judgement. Not everything is perfectly done. Even amongst perfection, there bounds to be flaws in the eyes of different people.
This is just my personal opinion about people that are complaining about draw rates. Feel free to agree/disagree :D
Thank you for explaining how i feel about the situation in a very poetic way. I almost had a tear in my eyes. Very good lecture, kuddos to you.
 
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Celty
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Re: Why bad pull rates are not always a bad thing

Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:28 pm

btw investing in 4 stars isn't a bad thing as some trials require you to not use 5 star heroes. the next event will most likely feature this and you'll a strong 4 star party to clear the 100% achievement. 3 star too. you'll need to make those parties eventually so what you invested isn't wasted at all.
 
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Cremathick
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Re: Why bad pull rates are not always a bad thing

Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:29 pm

Personally, I have no problem with the draw rates.
I see that bunch of people are complaining about the rates, which made me cringe a lot.
I must say that, even with bad heroes or whatever you got from summons, it will become your foundations.
"How so? I only have 4* potential units, with bad faiths! This is just plain ridiculous!"
We does have a starter Valiant. 5* able, and will help you progress through (Except if you start with a Lucille, then you decided to draw, only to pull more healers. But, hey, teleporting stuffs, AoE disables, poisons, and more seems fun!).
For example, an invested team that consist of Slayer Dante/Fiona, Crusader Leon, Hunter/Marksman Aaron, Hunter Winry, and Inquisitor Lucille, regardless the faith, is still a good composition.
"Whoa, I got a 5* potential! But, I wasted resources on those measly 4*! Regret! Huuuge mistakes!"
Nope, you are not. Even if you won't be using them anymore after you have those 5* to replace them, they are the results of your hard work of not giving up, and the trust you still have.
They are not wasting your time. They are what you have at the earlier stage, and you need them to progress. With a 5*, you can progress even more! (If you know what you're doing).
There are lots of people with works to do. I know. Games like this requires lots of time to be spent in order to be enjoyable, as you'll unlock more contents as you level up.
I also believe that there are those still actively playing even with only 4* squads. And yes, eventually you'll get those 5*.
What I'm trying to say is, even with bad rates, as long as you can enjoy and be grateful to what is being given to you, you'll survive.
I honestly appreciate the devs for creating this game.
It hasn't been such a long time since this game was released, the devs will keep improving it, learning from mistakes, and hands out the right judgement. Not everything is perfectly done. Even amongst perfection, there bounds to be flaws in the eyes of different people.
This is just my personal opinion about people that are complaining about draw rates. Feel free to agree/disagree :D
Thank you for explaining how i feel about the situation in a very poetic way. I almost had a tear in my eyes.  Very good lecture, kuddos to you.
Thanks and you're welcome! :D
I kinda have an impulse when writing stuffs, but I don't really want to pry further and make it into an object of hate and disgust for people.
Each persons have their own way of thinking. We are free to express what we honestly feel. :)
 
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ZhenX
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Re: Why bad pull rates are not always a bad thing

Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:01 pm

5* for me is like less than 1%

in fact most of my x10 pulls do not have a single 5*able 3 stars
 
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kyon
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Re: Why bad pull rates are not always a bad thing

Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:14 pm

Never pulled a 5*and only managed to pull a 5* capable hero with the perfect faith once (2 Athena Zedds but mages are somewhat useless outside of gold event right now). Still waiting for the better Faith reroll system to justify the "bad" pull rates.