Valiant Force Forum

AI Summoners (specifically Guardian/Summoner) teams are still so strong, yet strangely weak on your player side. What gives?

Archer trigger teams still wipe out all your squishes in the first wave of attacks.

The summoner changes have cultivated a seriously toxic arena environment. So much advantage for whales versus dolphins/F2P's/casual players. Most especially evident when fighting summoner/archer teams... It's horribly unfun. Back then it was easy to accept the loss against a really powerful player since they were quite rare (meet Emperor in arena? No problem, he's really giving it his all to be have one of the scariest arena teams anyway), while it was almost on even terms even with slightly more powerful players with full 5 star sets, MLB's and the whole enchilada against my mediocre team full of partially LB'ed characters and some heirloom/5 star sets...

Prior to the arena change I've been able to make it up until Master 2/3 with ease, even before the summoner release. But now I can barely touch the top 100, or I have these massive lose streaks because the very arena teams I have managed to consistently defeat before are now suddenly goddamn immortal, or I have to rely on some really extreme RNG mechanics with Sven/archers just to get past them. 

Sure sure,  this is an opinion - it doesn't necessarily reflect everyone else's arena experience, but honestly arena feels less like a fun past-time and more like a daily masochistic chore where you just watch your team die most of the time. I just don't like it more than I used to. It's horrible and I would skip it in a heartbeat if there were other ways to gradually obtain Blood Tokens..

Makes me think the whole Summoner thing was just a huge mistake. They probably should have just avoided releasing these type of characters altogether. If they haven't released them, then we wouldn't have grown so highly dependent on them in the first place.

Lol wait till arena gets filled with world of tanks

I seriously feel you bro. I had a stable arena line-up before the summoner meta came and I could say it was a balanced one composed of my own champ/healer/guardian/ninja/archer (All jobs!). What made summoner overpowering is the area they cover and particularly low cool down, specially Talissa and Sven. Though one thing for sure is we had to "Re-build" our arena teams with these era-change.  I had also streaks of losses and frustration got the better of me but then again, I had to play with the cards I only had. Mix match your arena squad and try Friendly matches with your guildies/friends to see if you can solve the code of the meta shift. Good luck to you!

I seriously feel you bro. I had a stable arena line-up before the summoner meta came and I could say it was a balanced one composed of my own champ/healer/guardian/ninja/archer (All jobs!). What made summoner overpowering is the area they cover and particularly low cool down, specially Talissa and Sven. Though one thing for sure is we had to "Re-build" our arena teams with these era-change.  I had also streaks of losses and frustration got the better of me but then again, I had to play with the cards I only had. Mix match your arena squad and try Friendly matches with your guildies/friends to see if you can solve the code of the meta shift. Good luck to you!

Oh I tell ya, I've tried everything. I have pretty much nearly every meta arena unit in my arsenal and I've tried every combination. Without monstrous stats it's really just impossible to have a stable team with this current arena meta. The initial summoner releases were at least a bit bearable - while Summoners did become extremely popular almost immediately, everybody pretty much access to them with ease. During the pre-nerf era player side has a decent advantage against AI which made it possible for me to even fight against teams with much better stats. The developers are just pushing us to buy more gems and get better prestige levels... Sleazy but I admit it's quite effective to break some people perhaps.

Lol wait till arena gets filled with world of tanks

It's pretty much already begun... I see them from time to time in arena. It's a WHOLE lot more easier to handle though, so I don't really mind it. It's more of just taking some spaces early on and playing with a bit of knockback.

its the meta right now... like the archer team before.... you cant expect to use the same team forever in arena 

i am an F2p player and had minor luck with summons...ive experienced the ups and downs of the arena you cant really blame whales because basically they are the major source of the devs income which makes the game alive.... 
whales use real money to easily adapt to the meta 
devs cant really make the arena fair for everyone its impossible to make arena fair for everyone without decreasing the amount of income devs get from it
this is just a small price to pay for f2p players to enjoy the game freely

just wait until the meta shifts in your favor or save gems and try to predict where will the meta shift so you can easily adapt

P.S My love for the game does not really provide any food on the devs table so i just need to suck it up and and wait until the Lord chicken favor my side in arena

P.S.S oh and yeah if you actually try to predict usual ai movements, that could actually benefit in fight with strong enemies..

Most of the time I just auto for the first 3~5 days since you will meet a lot of whales with bunch of summoners. It's perfectly fine for me as the arena ranking reward isn't much different. The only thing that affects me the most is I gain less blood gem than ever since lose streak is very common now.

its the meta right now... like the archer team before.... you cant expect to use the same team forever in arena 

i am an F2p player and had minor luck with summons...ive experienced the ups and downs of the arena you cant really blame whales because basically they are the major source of the devs income which makes the game alive.... 
whales use real money to easily adapt to the meta 
devs cant really make the arena fair for everyone its impossible to make arena fair for everyone without decreasing the amount of income devs get from it
this is just a small price to pay for f2p players to enjoy the game freely

just wait until the meta shifts in your favor or save gems and try to predict where will the meta shift so you can easily adapt

P.S My love for the game does not really provide any food on the devs table so i just need to suck it up and and wait until the Lord chicken favor my side in arena

P.S.S oh and yeah if you actually try to predict usual ai movements, that could actually benefit in fight with strong enemies..

It was fine during pre-Summoner/pre-summoner nerf eras. It's obvious that there are really some insane teams  out there and I'm really fine with that. My problem is that, after the latest nerf on summoners, everything's gone pretty much to hell for some players, me included, regardless of fighting a whale or not, because when they nerfed summoners they indirectly shifted ALL advantage towards the AI rather than the player. It's not as consistent as it was before, and that's the problem. 

It's easy to predict AI. Problem is that you can't find a consistent countermeasure now besides upping everyone's stats to the crazy levels, as there isn't enough turns to actively pursue such a countermeasure. Once you get to end game arena you'll see how it is, you're probably not fighting the same people we are fighting with, or you simply don't care enough to observe arena mechanics to similarly find what we have been noticing. And mind you, I've spent a fairly average sum on the game, though not just as much as the really bigger spending players.

I kind of prefer the new summoner mechanics. There's a semblance of fairness despite the so called advantage shift (don't really feel it)

I still think the issue lies with Talissa's AOE and Sven's CD. Apart from that, Summoners are just... normal.

Sora Ninja? Needs an expensive squad to be fabulous
Sora Sin? Fun and cool but meh
Sven WL? Raid king, lame in PvP
Matilda WD? All hail the goddess of SDD
Matilda SW? Cool beans, freaking hard to make a fantastic SW (Ares or Athena??)
Talissa Ele? Nice damage output, super hard to use

Problems are:
Talissa WL? Brainless hero
Sven Zerk? WTF is that trigger. Honestly, I can accept his damage as there's practically not a single anti-tank in this game except him. But triggering 6 times in arena is just...

So I find that summoners period aren't as bad as people say it is, it's just these 2 heroes that are causing chaos for players who aren't as well geared.

its the meta right now... like the archer team before.... you cant expect to use the same team forever in arena 

i am an F2p player and had minor luck with summons...ive experienced the ups and downs of the arena you cant really blame whales because basically they are the major source of the devs income which makes the game alive.... 
whales use real money to easily adapt to the meta 
devs cant really make the arena fair for everyone its impossible to make arena fair for everyone without decreasing the amount of income devs get from it
this is just a small price to pay for f2p players to enjoy the game freely

just wait until the meta shifts in your favor or save gems and try to predict where will the meta shift so you can easily adapt

P.S My love for the game does not really provide any food on the devs table so i just need to suck it up and and wait until the Lord chicken favor my side in arena

P.S.S oh and yeah if you actually try to predict usual ai movements, that could actually benefit in fight with strong enemies..

It was fine during pre-Summoner/pre-summoner nerf eras. It's obvious that there are really some insane teams  out there and I'm really fine with that. My problem is that, after the latest nerf on summoners, everything's gone pretty much to hell for some players, me included, regardless of fighting a whale or not, because when they nerfed summoners they indirectly shifted ALL advantage towards the AI rather than the player. It's not as consistent as it was before, and that's the problem. 

It's easy to predict AI. Problem is that you can't find a consistent countermeasure now besides upping everyone's stats to the crazy levels, as there isn't enough turns to actively pursue such a countermeasure. Once you get to end game arena you'll see how it is, you're probably not fighting the same people we are fighting with, or you simply don't care enough to observe arena mechanics to similarly find what we have been noticing. And mind you, I've spent a fairly average sum on the game, though not just as much as the really bigger spending players.

i mean .... my rank is usually 100-70 since the summoner nerf.... and my team comp has been always been point oriented rather than pure brute force...... in my experience with my comp 3tanks 1 stun 1 dps .... with the summoners AI they always do the same thing and most team comps at the top may consist of svens ,aden, talissa , faye ,CK, any trigger archer , ronan(biggest pain in the ass IMO) and some other heroes from time to time like ninja,lucille and kierra ....

i dont really get it ....."It's easy to predict AI. Problem is that you can't find a consistent countermeasure now besides upping everyone's stats to the crazy levels," this is your problem...im not calling you lazy or anything but if you already know how will the AI react on the next turn then you should be able to guess on what would be the best way for you to kill them or win by points .......

"regardless of fighting a whale or not, because when they nerfed summoners they indirectly shifted ALL advantage towards the AI rather than the player. It's not as consistent as it was before, and that's the problem" the nerfs where applied to all of us... how can you say that the power was shifted to the AI.... ugh i just dont get it.....think of the people facing your team arent they having the same issue as you? if everyone is having the same experience as you then thats freaking "FAIR" ... 

dont you think you are being unfair to other people who paid or worked hard to set up there team so they can have an advantage in arena? the teams that they make not only get them points but also defy points from enemies facing them...thus making sure that only the strongest or richest will be at the top....
to make it short "its the meta"
if you cant adjust(equipments upgrade , better runes, better stats and etc) just suck it up and wait until it changes and  favors your team comp

I kind of prefer the new summoner mechanics. There's a semblance of fairness despite the so called advantage shift (don't really feel it)

I still think the issue lies with Talissa's AOE and Sven's CD. Apart from that, Summoners are just... normal.

Sora Ninja? Needs an expensive squad to be fabulous
Sora Sin? Fun and cool but meh
Sven WL? Raid king, lame in PvP
Matilda WD? All hail the goddess of SDD
Matilda SW? Cool beans, freaking hard to make a fantastic SW (Ares or Athena??)
Talissa Ele? Nice damage output, super hard to use

Problems are:
Talissa WL? Brainless hero
Sven Zerk? WTF is that trigger. Honestly, I can accept his damage as there's practically not a single anti-tank in this game except him. But triggering 6 times in arena is just...

So I find that summoners period aren't as bad as people say it is, it's just these 2 heroes that are causing chaos for players who aren't as well geared.

thats why i dont really get there point.....but you forgot ronan dude... that fucker  is the clean up if you survive the talissa and sven attack