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Silmeria
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Re: 4x Cassadra breaks the game. What were the devs thinking?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:04 am

Because people are theorizing about how OP having 4 Cassandras is, miyu is also theorizing about ways to get through 4 Cassandras. Some of the strategy does look inefficient against other teams but it will be effective against 4 Cassandras.
She's just trying to prove the point that there are ways to counter Cassandra. So she's not breaking the game, just changing the meta.
 
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Miyu
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Re: 4x Cassadra breaks the game. What were the devs thinking?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:06 am

I've read all the post regarding 4x Cassandra on-spawn stacks and most of it made my brain hurt, I'm legit getting brain aneurysm from all the uninformed post and theorycrafting/assumptions. I almost thought the entire thread was a troll because I completely fail to see how it even remotely breaks the game. 

Firstly, let's get this out of the way. What does Cassandra's on-spawn do? It removes 20% of your overall ATK and stacks additively for each Cassandra you run, for a maximum of 80% ATK.

Secondly, against what team archetype does it affect the most? Basically Rangers and Priest triggers, the remaining archetype does not utilize ATK early in the game (for e.g. Mystic + Tank) so this is a non-issue.

Thirdly, you get 80% ATK debuff, but what do you give up? Tankiness of tank+mystic teams, an immediate offensive capability of a ranger/priest team, you run four freaking shadows that are melee and does literally nothing for the first three turns and if they don't get to hit you, plus they're relatively paper af when the debuff runs out.

Lastly, discounting ladder and bundles, you're spending basically 70,000 gems on top of those to get FOUR Cassandra for such gimmick advantage and disadvantage exchange, it is not cost-efficient for what you spend, and it definitely isn't broken at all, if I spent the 70,000 gems on a proper tank + mystic teams instead, you'd be sure I'll have a 100% win rate controlling it, and with the reaction you guys have towards 4x Cassandra, you'd be shitting bricks at the whale tank + mystic teams.

--

In any case, now that we have gotten the basic information surrounding this whole uncalled fiasco out, let's talk about how to deal with 4x Cassandra team. 

Due to boredom, I am kind enough to put up a list of potential counters with proof and a little bit of mathematics in it, enjoy!
  • Tank teams- Because they give zero shit about ATK for the first three turns so it is business as usual, it does not matter if you have 20% ATK debuff or 2147483647% ATK debuff, the debuff stacks isn't sufficient enough for them to centre their playstyle around this advantage. If anything, they gained an advantage because they're fighting four shadows instead of your usual line-up with archers putting immediate pressure or a tank + mystic teams with far more threatening synergistic effect between their skills. 
  • Archer teams with Resilience Rune- You're giving up 10% of your base ATK in exchange for 20% increase in overall ATK, that is definitely a worthy trade. When Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like Zoey, obviously running Archer + Resilience team would be more beneficial than running say, double strike or just 20% Base ATK runes. It is also important to note that against 4x Cassandra, you'd have 100% effective ATK increase against them. A 16k Archer would lose 12.8k attack and have 3.2k attack left, with Resilience, you'd have 6.4k attack now, with critical, you'd do 9.6k damage, given sufficient trigger, you'd still be able to take out Cassandra walking into the middle tile one by one even if they are defensive-based because they are shadows with limited defensive capabilities and potentials. 

    This is also assuming you only have 16k, obviously a spender whale of a much lower calibre relative to a spender capable of procuring four Cassandras in a short time is able to attain a bunch of 16k archers trivially given sufficient time and investment. With power creep factor, an 18k or 20k archer team is not far from your dream within the next couple patches. 

    It is also important to note that you have Cybella Gunslinger being able to sleep a Cassandra with skill ready at turn 4 (3 if you're going second), so use that to your advantage.
  • Priest teams with Double Resilience- Remember the above post? This is basically just archer teams but with 200% effective damage increase, from retaining 20% ATK -> 60% ATK. Self-explanatory. 
  • Elves-
    Transforming a Rhea Glad and following up with a Cassandra Magebane basically means you rape them trivially.
    Transforming a Taegan MW boosts your tempo by delaying one of them and clearing yourself of debuffs, you're ready to be triggered as well.
    Tess GR is able to trigger all of them after they're transformed.
    Altima HD/Pala absorbs and protects your team/returns the damage to them.
    Rhea Dragoon jumps in and it's business as usual, put a Miracle rune and she will just counter-rape them, Death Rouletting her does fuck all because she is able to just shield everyone and trigger the other elves to attack when she drops to 1 HP.
    Raegar Magebane does the same stuff as Taegan MW.
    Emilia Inquisitor transforming and poking any of them will just cause the shadows to kill themselves.
Assuming that the players with rangers and healer triggers adapt to the threat of Cassandra, isn't that indirectly nerfing them both? Cassandra lineups are the most specific of all specific lineups and I don't think the tradeoff is worth it, to begin with. If a healer completely dumps his red attack set, he'll lose ~1.5k attack and the +20% bonus while a ranger trading losing his double strike rune trades the potential for even more triggers and loses a lot of its firepower and potential to kill every enemy lineup. A ranger with 15k attack may drop down to ~11k ATK just so it could deal with a Cassandra. 11k crits would tickle guardians and would now allow mystics to take a crit or two before dying. I think the payoff just to be ready for a Cassandra lineup is too much and I'd rather avoid a 4 Cassandra team than make my squad fare better against her and do worse versus every other relevant lineup.
The point of Cassandra is to diversify the team lineups in the top Arena from not just attrition-based tank team vs Archer/Priest teams, with the current offensive Insignia rampant, Archers are basically destroying almost every single archetype while going first. Cassandra exists to provide an alternative to deal with such heavy firepower. 
Assuming in the same vein, isn't insignias indirectly buffing archer teams greatly and nerfing tank teams greatly? I don't see why Cassandra being introduced deserved such questioning. When Merlin was introduced, I don't see people questioning that tank teams got nerfed indirectly. The nature of Arena is a rock-paper-scissors game, and you will just have to do well to adapt to the change, either way when Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like how Zoey is now, you'd just have to deal with it and use Resilience runes to make up for the effective attack returns. 
If a Healer switches to Resilience rune, you don't lose 20% base ATK, you lose 10% base ATK, in exchange for 20% overall ATK increase. 
Double Strike triggered attack does not enable new trigger like a probability tree as well.
A ranger with 15k ATK will not drop down to 11k ATK by switching the runes like I've mentioned above, you lose 10% base ATK and probably up to 1k ATK, which puts you at around 13k. 

Before Insignias were introduced, Tank team was a counter to Archer team, Archer team was a counter to fellow archer/priest teams- normalizing at around 50% win rate depending on the coin flip.

Are you implying that archers should be able to destroy everything in the first turn and basically play a coin toss in Arena if every team they met were Archer teams? The notion Archers should be way more capable than being suppressed from your implication is more destructive to the integrity of Arena than 4x Cassandra. Cassandra is definitely a healthy addition to the Arena. 
 
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Miyu
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Re: 4x Cassadra breaks the game. What were the devs thinking?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:11 am

Because people are theorizing about how OP having 4 Cassandras is, miyu is also theorizing about ways to get through 4 Cassandras. Some of the strategy does look inefficient against other teams but it will be effective against 4 Cassandras.
She's just trying to prove the point that there are ways to counter Cassandra. So she's not breaking the game, just changing the meta.
Yes, and that's what I'm trying to say, there's no one-size-fits-all team that can destroy everyone's team at 100% win rate (Except a very well-built tank + mystic team, of course, but that's an outlier).

Arena is meant to be rock-paper-scissors game, and the introduction of Insignia obviously just turned Archers into 100% win rate against every other team except for fellow archers at 50% win rate depending on the coin flip, which means the competition is unhealthy since strategy can be discarded and you just have to rely on 50% coin toss. 

Your job in obtaining an edge over others means you'd have to custom build your team revolving the metagame to have a high win rate as possible, 92%? Sure, 95%? Even better. 100% win rate? That's the best outcome. 4x Cassandra is not one of the teams where you can custom build to have 100% win rate against literally anything. 
 
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Sn1v33
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Re: 4x Cassadra breaks the game. What were the devs thinking?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:11 am

I've read all the post regarding 4x Cassandra on-spawn stacks and most of it made my brain hurt, I'm legit getting brain aneurysm from all the uninformed post and theorycrafting/assumptions. I almost thought the entire thread was a troll because I completely fail to see how it even remotely breaks the game. 

Firstly, let's get this out of the way. What does Cassandra's on-spawn do? It removes 20% of your overall ATK and stacks additively for each Cassandra you run, for a maximum of 80% ATK.

Secondly, against what team archetype does it affect the most? Basically Rangers and Priest triggers, the remaining archetype does not utilize ATK early in the game (for e.g. Mystic + Tank) so this is a non-issue.

Thirdly, you get 80% ATK debuff, but what do you give up? Tankiness of tank+mystic teams, an immediate offensive capability of a ranger/priest team, you run four freaking shadows that are melee and does literally nothing for the first three turns and if they don't get to hit you, plus they're relatively paper af when the debuff runs out.

Lastly, discounting ladder and bundles, you're spending basically 70,000 gems on top of those to get FOUR Cassandra for such gimmick advantage and disadvantage exchange, it is not cost-efficient for what you spend, and it definitely isn't broken at all, if I spent the 70,000 gems on a proper tank + mystic teams instead, you'd be sure I'll have a 100% win rate controlling it, and with the reaction you guys have towards 4x Cassandra, you'd be shitting bricks at the whale tank + mystic teams.

--

In any case, now that we have gotten the basic information surrounding this whole uncalled fiasco out, let's talk about how to deal with 4x Cassandra team. 

Due to boredom, I am kind enough to put up a list of potential counters with proof and a little bit of mathematics in it, enjoy!
  • Tank teams- Because they give zero shit about ATK for the first three turns so it is business as usual, it does not matter if you have 20% ATK debuff or 2147483647% ATK debuff, the debuff stacks isn't sufficient enough for them to centre their playstyle around this advantage. If anything, they gained an advantage because they're fighting four shadows instead of your usual line-up with archers putting immediate pressure or a tank + mystic teams with far more threatening synergistic effect between their skills. 
  • Archer teams with Resilience Rune- You're giving up 10% of your base ATK in exchange for 20% increase in overall ATK, that is definitely a worthy trade. When Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like Zoey, obviously running Archer + Resilience team would be more beneficial than running say, double strike or just 20% Base ATK runes. It is also important to note that against 4x Cassandra, you'd have 100% effective ATK increase against them. A 16k Archer would lose 12.8k attack and have 3.2k attack left, with Resilience, you'd have 6.4k attack now, with critical, you'd do 9.6k damage, given sufficient trigger, you'd still be able to take out Cassandra walking into the middle tile one by one even if they are defensive-based because they are shadows with limited defensive capabilities and potentials. 

    This is also assuming you only have 16k, obviously a spender whale of a much lower calibre relative to a spender capable of procuring four Cassandras in a short time is able to attain a bunch of 16k archers trivially given sufficient time and investment. With power creep factor, an 18k or 20k archer team is not far from your dream within the next couple patches. 

    It is also important to note that you have Cybella Gunslinger being able to sleep a Cassandra with skill ready at turn 4 (3 if you're going second), so use that to your advantage.
  • Priest teams with Double Resilience- Remember the above post? This is basically just archer teams but with 200% effective damage increase, from retaining 20% ATK -> 60% ATK. Self-explanatory. 
  • Elves-
    Transforming a Rhea Glad and following up with a Cassandra Magebane basically means you rape them trivially.
    Transforming a Taegan MW boosts your tempo by delaying one of them and clearing yourself of debuffs, you're ready to be triggered as well.
    Tess GR is able to trigger all of them after they're transformed.
    Altima HD/Pala absorbs and protects your team/returns the damage to them.
    Rhea Dragoon jumps in and it's business as usual, put a Miracle rune and she will just counter-rape them, Death Rouletting her does fuck all because she is able to just shield everyone and trigger the other elves to attack when she drops to 1 HP.
    Raegar Magebane does the same stuff as Taegan MW.
    Emilia Inquisitor transforming and poking any of them will just cause the shadows to kill themselves.
Assuming that the players with rangers and healer triggers adapt to the threat of Cassandra, isn't that indirectly nerfing them both? Cassandra lineups are the most specific of all specific lineups and I don't think the tradeoff is worth it, to begin with. If a healer completely dumps his red attack set, he'll lose ~1.5k attack and the +20% bonus while a ranger trading losing his double strike rune trades the potential for even more triggers and loses a lot of its firepower and potential to kill every enemy lineup. A ranger with 15k attack may drop down to ~11k ATK just so it could deal with a Cassandra. 11k crits would tickle guardians and would now allow mystics to take a crit or two before dying. I think the payoff just to be ready for a Cassandra lineup is too much and I'd rather avoid a 4 Cassandra team than make my squad fare better against her and do worse versus every other relevant lineup.
The point of Cassandra is to diversify the team lineups in the top Arena from not just attrition-based tank team vs Archer/Priest teams, with the current offensive Insignia rampant, Archers are basically destroying almost every single archetype while going first. Cassandra exists to provide an alternative to deal with such heavy firepower. 
Assuming in the same vein, isn't insignias indirectly buffing archer teams greatly and nerfing tank teams greatly? I don't see why Cassandra being introduced deserved such questioning. When Merlin was introduced, I don't see people questioning that tank teams got nerfed indirectly. The nature of Arena is a rock-paper-scissors game, and you will just have to do well to adapt to the change, either way when Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like how Zoey is now, you'd just have to deal with it and use Resilience runes to make up for the effective attack returns. 
If a Healer switches to Resilience rune, you don't lose 20% base ATK, you lose 10% base ATK, in exchange for 20% overall ATK increase. 
Double Strike triggered attack does not enable new trigger like a probability tree as well.
A ranger with 15k ATK will not drop down to 11k ATK by switching the runes like I've mentioned above, you lose 10% base ATK and probably up to 1k ATK, which puts you at around 13k. 

Before Insignias were introduced, Tank team was a counter to Archer team, Archer team was a counter to fellow archer/priest teams- normalizing at around 50% win rate depending on the coin flip.

Are you implying that archers should be able to destroy everything in the first turn and basically play a coin toss in Arena if every team they met were Archer teams? The notion Archers should be way more capable than being suppressed from your implication is more destructive to the integrity of Arena than 4x Cassandra. Cassandra is definitely a healthy addition to the Arena. 
Oh, I was not in any way arguing with you. I think I've expressed my clear pleasure in having Cassandra in the game in this thread and you said you read the posts above, right? Anything that fucks up rangers, I give a thumbs up :) I was simply trying to point out what I am foreseeing and I'm sure you've seen that. 
 
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Bansky
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Re: 4x Cassadra breaks the game. What were the devs thinking?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:07 pm

Not everybody has 4 Cass, and to Meet Soju in arena is unlikely, u need to be in the TOP 10 or less to even meet him.

More often maybe you meet up with ppl that have 1 or 2 Cass max.
This is what I've been saying earlier, too. Almost nobody will have 4 unless the mega ultra whales( most likely from the top 20s), probably. You'll only be groaning if you're in that bracket. Even then, isn't the top 100 whales, anyway? That tier is like a battlefield of whales, to begin with.
This is a shortsighted point of view.  As of now, there are already a lot of players with 2 Cass, after the ladder, there will be many more with 3 Cass.  It's only a matter of time before most top arena players will be using 4 Cass.  Cass is relatively easier to acquire for whale players compared to Zoey. 
 
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Re: 4x Cassadra breaks the game. What were the devs thinking?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:27 pm

I've read all the post regarding 4x Cassandra on-spawn stacks and most of it made my brain hurt, I'm legit getting brain aneurysm from all the uninformed post and theorycrafting/assumptions. I almost thought the entire thread was a troll because I completely fail to see how it even remotely breaks the game. 

Firstly, let's get this out of the way. What does Cassandra's on-spawn do? It removes 20% of your overall ATK and stacks additively for each Cassandra you run, for a maximum of 80% ATK.

Secondly, against what team archetype does it affect the most? Basically Rangers and Priest triggers, the remaining archetype does not utilize ATK early in the game (for e.g. Mystic + Tank) so this is a non-issue.

Thirdly, you get 80% ATK debuff, but what do you give up? Tankiness of tank+mystic teams, an immediate offensive capability of a ranger/priest team, you run four freaking shadows that are melee and does literally nothing for the first three turns and if they don't get to hit you, plus they're relatively paper af when the debuff runs out.

Lastly, discounting ladder and bundles, you're spending basically 70,000 gems on top of those to get FOUR Cassandra for such gimmick advantage and disadvantage exchange, it is not cost-efficient for what you spend, and it definitely isn't broken at all, if I spent the 70,000 gems on a proper tank + mystic teams instead, you'd be sure I'll have a 100% win rate controlling it, and with the reaction you guys have towards 4x Cassandra, you'd be shitting bricks at the whale tank + mystic teams.

--

In any case, now that we have gotten the basic information surrounding this whole uncalled fiasco out, let's talk about how to deal with 4x Cassandra team. 

Due to boredom, I am kind enough to put up a list of potential counters with proof and a little bit of mathematics in it, enjoy!
  • Tank teams- Because they give zero shit about ATK for the first three turns so it is business as usual, it does not matter if you have 20% ATK debuff or 2147483647% ATK debuff, the debuff stacks isn't sufficient enough for them to centre their playstyle around this advantage. If anything, they gained an advantage because they're fighting four shadows instead of your usual line-up with archers putting immediate pressure or a tank + mystic teams with far more threatening synergistic effect between their skills. 
  • Archer teams with Resilience Rune- You're giving up 10% of your base ATK in exchange for 20% increase in overall ATK, that is definitely a worthy trade. When Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like Zoey, obviously running Archer + Resilience team would be more beneficial than running say, double strike or just 20% Base ATK runes. It is also important to note that against 4x Cassandra, you'd have 100% effective ATK increase against them. A 16k Archer would lose 12.8k attack and have 3.2k attack left, with Resilience, you'd have 6.4k attack now, with critical, you'd do 9.6k damage, given sufficient trigger, you'd still be able to take out Cassandra walking into the middle tile one by one even if they are defensive-based because they are shadows with limited defensive capabilities and potentials. 

    This is also assuming you only have 16k, obviously a spender whale of a much lower calibre relative to a spender capable of procuring four Cassandras in a short time is able to attain a bunch of 16k archers trivially given sufficient time and investment. With power creep factor, an 18k or 20k archer team is not far from your dream within the next couple patches. 

    It is also important to note that you have Cybella Gunslinger being able to sleep a Cassandra with skill ready at turn 4 (3 if you're going second), so use that to your advantage.
  • Priest teams with Double Resilience- Remember the above post? This is basically just archer teams but with 200% effective damage increase, from retaining 20% ATK -> 60% ATK. Self-explanatory. 
  • Elves-
    Transforming a Rhea Glad and following up with a Cassandra Magebane basically means you rape them trivially.
    Transforming a Taegan MW boosts your tempo by delaying one of them and clearing yourself of debuffs, you're ready to be triggered as well.
    Tess GR is able to trigger all of them after they're transformed.
    Altima HD/Pala absorbs and protects your team/returns the damage to them.
    Rhea Dragoon jumps in and it's business as usual, put a Miracle rune and she will just counter-rape them, Death Rouletting her does fuck all because she is able to just shield everyone and trigger the other elves to attack when she drops to 1 HP.
    Raegar Magebane does the same stuff as Taegan MW.
    Emilia Inquisitor transforming and poking any of them will just cause the shadows to kill themselves.
All this theorycrafting hulabaloo, your'e missing one big point about Cassandra, it's their skills that are pretty much OP.  They can rape whatever tank teams you have at your disposal.  They have very fast CD.  The samurai can drop your mystic's magic and make them futile.  They pretty much have it covered against whatever team they are facing. You give me one lineup that can counter 4 Cass and maybe 1 zoey MW support.
Last edited by Bansky on Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: 4x Cassadra breaks the game. What were the devs thinking?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:47 pm

Assuming that the players with rangers and healer triggers adapt to the threat of Cassandra, isn't that indirectly nerfing them both? Cassandra lineups are the most specific of all specific lineups and I don't think the tradeoff is worth it, to begin with. If a healer completely dumps his red attack set, he'll lose ~1.5k attack and the +20% bonus while a ranger trading losing his double strike rune trades the potential for even more triggers and loses a lot of its firepower and potential to kill every enemy lineup. A ranger with 15k attack may drop down to ~11k ATK just so it could deal with a Cassandra. 11k crits would tickle guardians and would now allow mystics to take a crit or two before dying. I think the payoff just to be ready for a Cassandra lineup is too much and I'd rather avoid a 4 Cassandra team than make my squad fare better against her and do worse versus every other relevant lineup.
The point of Cassandra is to diversify the team lineups in the top Arena from not just attrition-based tank team vs Archer/Priest teams, with the current offensive Insignia rampant, Archers are basically destroying almost every single archetype while going first. Cassandra exists to provide an alternative to deal with such heavy firepower. 
Assuming in the same vein, isn't insignias indirectly buffing archer teams greatly and nerfing tank teams greatly? I don't see why Cassandra being introduced deserved such questioning. When Merlin was introduced, I don't see people questioning that tank teams got nerfed indirectly. The nature of Arena is a rock-paper-scissors game, and you will just have to do well to adapt to the change, either way when Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like how Zoey is now, you'd just have to deal with it and use Resilience runes to make up for the effective attack returns. 
If a Healer switches to Resilience rune, you don't lose 20% base ATK, you lose 10% base ATK, in exchange for 20% overall ATK increase. 
Double Strike triggered attack does not enable new trigger like a probability tree as well.
A ranger with 15k ATK will not drop down to 11k ATK by switching the runes like I've mentioned above, you lose 10% base ATK and probably up to 1k ATK, which puts you at around 13k. 

Before Insignias were introduced, Tank team was a counter to Archer team, Archer team was a counter to fellow archer/priest teams- normalizing at around 50% win rate depending on the coin flip.

Are you implying that archers should be able to destroy everything in the first turn and basically play a coin toss in Arena if every team they met were Archer teams? The notion Archers should be way more capable than being suppressed from your implication is more destructive to the integrity of Arena than 4x Cassandra. Cassandra is definitely a healthy addition to the Arena. 
Oh, I was not in any way arguing with you. I think I've expressed my clear pleasure in having Cassandra in the game in this thread and you said you read the posts above, right? Anything that fucks up rangers, I give a thumbs up :) I was simply trying to point out what I am foreseeing and I'm sure you've seen that. 
Actually, for the first time, I appreciate the presence of archer teams in arena now more than ever.  Simple because they are the ones preventing one type of meta from dominating arena. I'm referring to the double zoey. 
 
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YayuSheng
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Re: 4x Cassadra breaks the game. What were the devs thinking?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:22 pm

Because people are theorizing about how OP having 4 Cassandras is, miyu is also theorizing about ways to get through 4 Cassandras. Some of the strategy does look inefficient against other teams but it will be effective against 4 Cassandras.
She's just trying to prove the point that there are ways to counter Cassandra. So she's not breaking the game, just changing the meta.
sorry, i am not theoryzing, i experienced it, i can give u any scenario as long it's not archer scenario(i don't have the descent one for arena)
 
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Re: 4x Cassadra breaks the game. What were the devs thinking?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:33 pm

Because people are theorizing about how OP having 4 Cassandras is, miyu is also theorizing about ways to get through 4 Cassandras. Some of the strategy does look inefficient against other teams but it will be effective against 4 Cassandras.
She's just trying to prove the point that there are ways to counter Cassandra. So she's not breaking the game, just changing the meta.
sorry, i am not theoryzing, i experienced it, i can give u any scenario as long it's not archer scenario(i don't have the descent one for arena)
I'm just explaining miyu's argument to sniv33 because he keeps missing the point.
I'm neutral about the whole cassandra situation, so just argue with other guys please.
 
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Re: 4x Cassadra breaks the game. What were the devs thinking?

Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:41 pm

I've read all the post regarding 4x Cassandra on-spawn stacks and most of it made my brain hurt, I'm legit getting brain aneurysm from all the uninformed post and theorycrafting/assumptions. I almost thought the entire thread was a troll because I completely fail to see how it even remotely breaks the game. 

Firstly, let's get this out of the way. What does Cassandra's on-spawn do? It removes 20% of your overall ATK and stacks additively for each Cassandra you run, for a maximum of 80% ATK.

Secondly, against what team archetype does it affect the most? Basically Rangers and Priest triggers, the remaining archetype does not utilize ATK early in the game (for e.g. Mystic + Tank) so this is a non-issue.

Thirdly, you get 80% ATK debuff, but what do you give up? Tankiness of tank+mystic teams, an immediate offensive capability of a ranger/priest team, you run four freaking shadows that are melee and does literally nothing for the first three turns and if they don't get to hit you, plus they're relatively paper af when the debuff runs out.

Lastly, discounting ladder and bundles, you're spending basically 70,000 gems on top of those to get FOUR Cassandra for such gimmick advantage and disadvantage exchange, it is not cost-efficient for what you spend, and it definitely isn't broken at all, if I spent the 70,000 gems on a proper tank + mystic teams instead, you'd be sure I'll have a 100% win rate controlling it, and with the reaction you guys have towards 4x Cassandra, you'd be shitting bricks at the whale tank + mystic teams.

--

In any case, now that we have gotten the basic information surrounding this whole uncalled fiasco out, let's talk about how to deal with 4x Cassandra team. 

Due to boredom, I am kind enough to put up a list of potential counters with proof and a little bit of mathematics in it, enjoy!
  • Tank teams- Because they give zero shit about ATK for the first three turns so it is business as usual, it does not matter if you have 20% ATK debuff or 2147483647% ATK debuff, the debuff stacks isn't sufficient enough for them to centre their playstyle around this advantage. If anything, they gained an advantage because they're fighting four shadows instead of your usual line-up with archers putting immediate pressure or a tank + mystic teams with far more threatening synergistic effect between their skills. 
  • Archer teams with Resilience Rune- You're giving up 10% of your base ATK in exchange for 20% increase in overall ATK, that is definitely a worthy trade. When Cassandra becomes the norm in Arena like Zoey, obviously running Archer + Resilience team would be more beneficial than running say, double strike or just 20% Base ATK runes. It is also important to note that against 4x Cassandra, you'd have 100% effective ATK increase against them. A 16k Archer would lose 12.8k attack and have 3.2k attack left, with Resilience, you'd have 6.4k attack now, with critical, you'd do 9.6k damage, given sufficient trigger, you'd still be able to take out Cassandra walking into the middle tile one by one even if they are defensive-based because they are shadows with limited defensive capabilities and potentials. 

    This is also assuming you only have 16k, obviously a spender whale of a much lower calibre relative to a spender capable of procuring four Cassandras in a short time is able to attain a bunch of 16k archers trivially given sufficient time and investment. With power creep factor, an 18k or 20k archer team is not far from your dream within the next couple patches. 

    It is also important to note that you have Cybella Gunslinger being able to sleep a Cassandra with skill ready at turn 4 (3 if you're going second), so use that to your advantage.
  • Priest teams with Double Resilience- Remember the above post? This is basically just archer teams but with 200% effective damage increase, from retaining 20% ATK -> 60% ATK. Self-explanatory. 
  • Elves-
    Transforming a Rhea Glad and following up with a Cassandra Magebane basically means you rape them trivially.
    Transforming a Taegan MW boosts your tempo by delaying one of them and clearing yourself of debuffs, you're ready to be triggered as well.
    Tess GR is able to trigger all of them after they're transformed.
    Altima HD/Pala absorbs and protects your team/returns the damage to them.
    Rhea Dragoon jumps in and it's business as usual, put a Miracle rune and she will just counter-rape them, Death Rouletting her does fuck all because she is able to just shield everyone and trigger the other elves to attack when she drops to 1 HP.
    Raegar Magebane does the same stuff as Taegan MW.
    Emilia Inquisitor transforming and poking any of them will just cause the shadows to kill themselves.
okay i will answer only regarding guardian squad then, we can't hold them, u must remember almost Guardian squad using resilence rune so we can't maximize our def, we only can optimize it, if u think guardian can hold theiir physical damage(with full intention to maximize the damage bcs they don't need defense), u are wrong, actually in theory guardian counter is champion, but bcs champion can't hold last in arena they can't do their job,  but recently bcs guardian intent to use resilence skill, shadow also enter the list to be their counter, i will give u an example one of the regular that using shadow in everglades his name Oteph,
to fight any archer except the one that using strong Rhea Dragoon(i forgot his name) or Otepth if i am attacking first, i will push my guardian to the line so she can be mild shield or at least give advantage 75% dmg reduction to all my mystic squad, against Oteph even i am in state of attacking i will not push my guardian, because his shadow(Ninja Shizu if i am not mistaken) is very strong 

my point is i can manage to any squad, like if i am unlucky i will lose, if i am lucky i will win the example about this Xinhuan Squad.
but for 4 Cassandra there is no play in it, the only thing i can think right now maybe Zoey can handle them(bcs she have skill to delay skill & muulti target), what about Teigen(he has & only 2 turn) but teigen only target 1,  Cassandra skill rythm will make us choke, bcs u have feeling that almost no opening to blow them, with 5th Merlin Like sojubeer, completed ur misery i assure u, if u can try it, bcs i already try it many time. 
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