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Sn1v33
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Re: Cheating

Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:08 pm

I think it's hex then. The missiles may hit somebody twice so that instantly procs hex damage. Hell, I even had an experience that 4 missiles hit one hero and that was 4 of my team alive.
 
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whodahackii
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Re: Cheating

Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:24 pm

Replying to Black (i hate the quoting, make the screen too long for me)

It is definitely hex like othet mentioned. the skill launch 4 missiles, each will land TWO stacks, if not resisted, 1 unit can take 4 missile (or 8 stacks = TWO 30k).

And to clarify (obviously you don't know how SnowWhite skill function _visually_)
The pop up number of her skill is 1 dmg, and applying 2 stacks, if there is a HUGE number popping up, it is the HEX STACK.
The poison will be like all other Mystic's poison which has a Purple bubble on the unit, AND WILL ONLY DMG between turns. (changing player side)
 
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Re: Cheating

Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:29 pm

Thank you for that clarification. But I would really like to know if there is an official page where all of this information is posted or is this purely speculation on the part of others? For instance I was told that physical damage is ATK-DEF, but if you look at combat in story mode that equation simple isn't true. And you can verify this because YOU CAN SEE THE OPPONENTS STATS, as opposed to arena combat where to opponents stats are hidden. Are there different combat mechanisms for story and arena mode?
 
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Xinhuan
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Re: Cheating

Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:01 pm

badblackbishop wrote:
Thank you for that clarification. But I would really like to know if there is an official page where all of this information is posted or is this purely speculation on the part of others? For instance I was told that physical damage is ATK-DEF, but if you look at combat in story mode that equation simple isn't true. And you can verify this because YOU CAN SEE THE OPPONENTS STATS, as opposed to arena combat where to opponents stats are hidden. Are there different combat mechanisms for story and arena mode?

The formula is known by us only through observing the game numbers, for Atk - Def. This is perfectly matched in Story mode for physical damage, but the minimum amount of damage that can be done is capped at 5% (i think), so it doesn't go negative otherwise. The arena may use different formulas that haven't been fully determined by the players, but for physical attacks it should still be Atk - Def.

For example, DEF reduces skill (magic) damage in arena only, not in Story mode.
 
badblackbishop
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Re: Cheating

Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:55 am

So if I understand correctly no one knows for sure how the combat mechanics work. In story mode where you can see the opponents stats some basic conclusions can be drawn like what you pointed out with the minimum amount of damage that can be done. But I question how anyone can make any assumptions or draw any conclusions when you don't have all the data in arena play. What people are doing is guessing about how this game works. You mentioned that the DEF stat reduces damage skill damage in area combat only. Is this an assumption or is it offically posted somewhere in the game?
 
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Sn1v33
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Re: Cheating

Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:02 pm

badblackbishop wrote:
So if I understand correctly no one knows for sure how the combat mechanics work. In story mode where you can see the opponents stats some basic conclusions can be drawn like what you pointed out with the minimum amount of damage that can be done. But I question how anyone can make any assumptions or draw any conclusions when you don't have all the data in arena play. What people are doing is guessing about how this game works. You mentioned that the DEF stat reduces damage skill damage in area combat only. Is this an assumption or is it offically posted somewhere in the game?

I'm very sure MiloD said DEF reduces skill damage in a thread here. I forgot which, though. However, he said he's not sure how much value of DEF is considered iirc.
 
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Re: Cheating

Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:39 pm

He did state that but my question is how did he reach that conclusion? There are only a few things that I know for a fact are true in arena combat because you can follow along by doing the math. One is that healing is halved and I know this is true because my healer has a 8,000 MAG stat and his healing skiill is 60% of his MAG stat. So in Arena combat she should heal 4,800 hits points which is verified by what I see actually happening in the game during combat. I don't see how anyone can state how any combat mechanics work without being able to prove it by showing the math behind it. And because we cannot see what the other players stats are we cannot prove how anything works. Furthermore because it's not even a real human your fighting you cannot even chat with him to get the information that way. If i was going to create a system that was rigged this one would be perfect. Which is why I haven't retracted my statement or made a public apology. Also if they really wanted to solve the problem of cheating, making the other players stats visible would clearly show who the cheaters were. By not telling how combat works and not showing what all the stats are prevents us the community from making sure the game is legitmate and fair.
 
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Sn1v33
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Re: Cheating

Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:59 pm

badblackbishop wrote:
He did state that but my question is how did he reach that conclusion? There are only a few things that I know for a fact are true in arena combat because you can follow along by doing the math. One is that healing is halved and I know this is true because my healer has a 8,000 MAG stat and his healing skiill is 60% of his MAG stat. So in Arena combat she should heal 4,800 hits points which is verified by what I see actually happening in the game during combat. I don't see how anyone can state how any combat mechanics work without being able to prove it by showing the math behind it. And because we cannot see what the other players stats are we cannot prove how anything works. Furthermore because it's not even a real human your fighting you cannot even chat with him to get the information that way. If i was going to create a system that was rigged this one would be perfect. Which is why I haven't retracted my statement or made a public apology. Also if they really wanted to solve the problem of cheating, making the other players stats visible would clearly show who the cheaters were. By not telling how combat works and not showing what all the stats are prevents us the community from making sure the game is legitmate and fair.

You need not apologize tbh lol. This game is heavily p2w with a seemingly f2p environment. Back on topic, I don't think cheating is possible in PvP because that would've been so obvious. Myself being in the top 200 of my server and I know there are a lot of whales. Knowing that, it doesn't surprise me at all when my 11k DEF Altima gets twoshotted by a ranger because I know they peak at 18-20k ATK.
 
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Xinhuan
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Re: Cheating

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:12 pm

badblackbishop wrote:
So if I understand correctly no one knows for sure how the combat mechanics work. In story mode where you can see the opponents stats some basic conclusions can be drawn like what you pointed out with the minimum amount of damage that can be done. But I question how anyone can make any assumptions or draw any conclusions when you don't have all the data in arena play. What people are doing is guessing about how this game works. You mentioned that the DEF stat reduces damage skill damage in area combat only. Is this an assumption or is it offically posted somewhere in the game?

We know that the game works correctly because what the enemy does to us, we can also do to the enemy with enough stats on our units. The game works both ways you know. If the enemy skills can do X damage to my units, and if I use the same unit and do X damage back to other players, then it's working fine.

If you insist on trying to prove that someone is cheating then by all means provide some actual proof, instead of rambling on and on about how nobody knows the formulas. The numbers and damages you have given all sound perfectly plausible from our collective experiences in the game. In fact, the entire arena battle is hosted on your own mobile phone, so if anyone is cheating, it has to be a modified APK on your own phone since the server doesn't host the battle, and all the server does is provide the stats of your opponent's units to your game client, and your phone merely plays out the battle and tells the server if you win or lose. The stats of your opponents cannot be hacked since they are stored server side and sent to your game client when you fight them. The stats of a hero is based on adding up his talent point allocations, and his gear and runes. All gear and runes have a min/max range of possible stats gain, all controlled server side.

If you want to help reverse engineer the game formulas, by all means do so instead of making ridiculous demands, and belittling everyone else in this thread about how nobody should be assuming anything and we aren't allowed to draw conclusions.

If you still think someone is cheating, report them in game or to Valiant Force Facebook, or in the Hacker Report forum - viewforum.php?f=27 - everyone else here has told you they see nothing out of the ordinary. We may not know the exact formulas, but the numbers given are all within the range of expectations. You can tell us all you want that you think someone is cheating, but until you actually make a report for the developers to investigate the target player, nothing's going to happen.
 
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Sn1v33
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Re: Cheating

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:34 pm

Xinhuan wrote:
badblackbishop wrote:
So if I understand correctly no one knows for sure how the combat mechanics work. In story mode where you can see the opponents stats some basic conclusions can be drawn like what you pointed out with the minimum amount of damage that can be done. But I question how anyone can make any assumptions or draw any conclusions when you don't have all the data in arena play. What people are doing is guessing about how this game works. You mentioned that the DEF stat reduces damage skill damage in area combat only. Is this an assumption or is it offically posted somewhere in the game?

We know that the game works correctly because what the enemy does to us, we can also do to the enemy with enough stats on our units. The game works both ways you know. If the enemy skills can do X damage to my units, and if I use the same unit and do X damage back to other players, then it's working fine.

If you insist on trying to prove that someone is cheating then by all means provide some actual proof, instead of rambling on and on about how nobody knows the formulas. The numbers and damages you have given all sound perfectly plausible from our collective experiences in the game. In fact, the entire arena battle is hosted on your own mobile phone, so if anyone is cheating, it has to be a modified APK on your own phone since the server doesn't host the battle, and all the server does is provide the stats of your opponent's units to your game client, and your phone merely plays out the battle and tells the server if you win or lose. The stats of your opponents cannot be hacked since they are stored server side and sent to your game client when you fight them. The stats of a hero is based on adding up his talent point allocations, and his gear and runes. All gear and runes have a min/max range of possible stats gain, all controlled server side.

If you want to help reverse engineer the game formulas, by all means do so instead of making ridiculous demands, and belittling everyone else in this thread about how nobody should be assuming anything and we aren't allowed to draw conclusions.


To his defense, he already acknowledged that a >18k MAG Kiera is possible. However, I did mention that the way he posts and comments has this certain degree of sarcasm and authority that gets on my nerves which was why I previously called him out for it. This is only a game so I don't hold any sort of grudge for him but I think the OP should mellow down with his choice of words.

To add to tagged reply, we may not know the exact formula for skill damage but I think it's already enough that we can tell if the damage is alright. If my 8k DEF kiera in the 3rd row takes around 7k damage from a ranger crit, I think that ranger might've had ~15k. I see no problem with that knowing thathat a 15k Ranger is totally possible. If she oneshots my Kiera, she might have had 18k or more ATK. Again, I see no problem with that since that ATK is still achievable. Since I'm at the upper brackets, i know for a fact that a lot of players have maxxed units.