badblackbishop
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Re: Cheating

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:55 pm

Thank you HouseofOrdos for taking the time to show me the math behind Snow White is was very revealing and I appreciate it. Perhaps you could explain how Leon can do 32,000 points of damage with a non critical hit. I just recently fought a player that did just that attack was against my Guardian with a 9,000 attack put the damage at over 40,000. I can't get anywhere near that number now matter what equipment/rune/insignia combinations I try. Although unlike the other players that I mentioned this one seems legitimate. For all it took was one hit from my Magebane and he was dead meaning he had everything stacked on pure attack leaving other stats really low. Which has been my sticking point almost all along. For once it was shown that certain character could attain really high stats it still left me with questions. Like with Snow White, if she has everything stacked on health then how did she just eat an attack from my Rhea in celestial from with an ATK of 21,000 and only take 4,000 points of damage? She would have to have a defense of 17,000+ and if all of her equipment/runes/talents are in health how is that possible?
 
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Xinhuan
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Re: Cheating

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:31 am

Unfortunately, his math is all wrong. All % stats boosts only apply on a hero's base stats.

Which is 10200 in his example (talents affect base stats, nothing else does) and not 14880.

You can find all the formulas, including the skill damage formula in arena (which the Chinese players derived recently), in my FAQ at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jM4 ... I21Bzahxpc

Leon with 15 points in weapon mastery deals 150% damage to the center target, Strong Leons now can reach 20k+ attack, or 30k damage (before deducting defense) on a normal non-critical attack, before considering any attack boost by auras, buffs and strike towers. Also, units standing on center capture tiles have reduced defenses and take extra damage (amount deducted depends on which tile and how many turns standing on it).
 
badblackbishop
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Re: Cheating

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:01 pm

Thank you Xinhuan for that link I can't wait to try that equation to see if it does in fact produce what I see in PvP combat. Finally answer to my question about how damage is calculated. If this is correct I will have a far better understanding of how PvP combat works and more evidence to determine if it is indeed rigged. Although in a certain sense we already know that it's rigged as the computer knows exactly what stats each of your hero's have and who the weakest is. This is proven by the fact that the computer always attacks the weakest target first (via Ranger trigger teams) regardless of class. I have even entered into combat with an completely unequipped guardian or other character and every time it goes after the weakest link. While on the other side we have no idea what the stats of our opponents or who the best target would be to attack first. This doesn't quite seem fair does it?
 
HouseofOrdos
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Re: Cheating

Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:42 pm

Xinhuan is right.
Talent tree directly adds too the base stats though so an archbishop +2 snow white with hercules faith will still have 6600+3600=10200 HP if snow max out all the Hp in her talent tree.

Now applying the hypothetical senario I previously stated that the % stats from the runes she gets +20% if she has 4 stacks of health runes. Another 30% from the 6 items each has +5% hp stats.

So the percent stats directly boost Base HP only
10200x(.20+.30)= 5100 hp bonus from the % stats

We still have the bonus HP from the rune of health
A +15 4 star size one rune will give 520 HP if you have 9 rune and fill up all 9 slots that makes it 4680 hp

4680 hp bonus from the runes. Now add it all

10200+5100+4680= 19980 hp. HP boost not includ the integer stats from the items and bonus stats from insignia.

From 21000 to 4000? That’s almost 80% dmg reduction. Or 75% dmg reduction+ snow white’s def. the only hero that can provide 75% damge reduction is an Archbishop Siena.

You also have to account for the team composition and the unit placing. There are certain units that boost defense of their allies example Arthur can persistently provide +15% def boost base on his def, there are also units that absorbs a % of the damage an adjacent ally recieves. Unit placing if the unit is that the last row in their formation that unit will only take 56% of the damage meaning Rhea will only deal 11760 damage. if the unit is in the middle row it will only take 75% of the damage that means Rhea will only deal 15750 damage. If the unit is in front row Rhea will deal full 21000 damage.

Example HD arthur has 15k def right off that’s bonus 2250 def. Archbish +2 snow hercules faith will have a base of 2561 def.
2250 + 2561 = 4811
If snow is at the middle 15750-4811= She Takes 10939 dmg
If snow is at the back row 11760-4811= She Takes 6949 dmg
The calculation didn’t include the bonus def items and insignia would provide but snow could potentially have 8k-5k def depending in team composition and item. Also items with suffix of defense can provide % stats of Def and Hp

To be honest I’ve never seen a unit other than a gaurdian tank a direct hit from Rhea Gladiator. When her lighting procs it’s usually insta kill especially if Rhea crits! My Rhea only has 17K attack in celestial form but when her lighting procs it usually game over for my enemy i could insta kill 1-2 units 1st one to go are the primary target and the rest are stunned.

It also possible that Snow white has the mystic raid set which has the miracle buff preventing instant kills.

About leon xinhuan already said it you get reduce def and mag in the mid tile you even see it pop up “def down” and “mag down” when you or an enemy occupy the mid tile. The gaurdian class has +50% dmg amp against middle target hence 150% dmg it is like every attack is a crit. The Attunement in the gaurdian talent tree also provides bonus damage at max level it converts 9% HP into Attack. If that leon focus on weapon mastery tree he can will have an additional 2300 atk plus the other atk buffs. Like xinhuan said it is possible for leon to gain an insane amount of damage and you don’t even have to worry about def and Hp coz leon is a gaudian class hero.
 
badblackbishop
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Re: Cheating

Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:11 pm

I totally believe that having a Leon with such high attack is now possible and in this instance totally realistic due to the fact he folded like cheap suit when I actually attacked him. In fact many of the examples I've seen or given are possible but it's the combination of two really high stats that I am suspicious of. For instance had that Leon that I mentioned not only attacked for an insane amount of damage but then simply ate one of my Rhea's lightening bolts like it was nothing like Snow White did, that would be a problem. Maybe I'm just totally over rated and got lucky when I made it too the Diamond 1 class. Or maybe there are a lot of new players with some serious cash to spend and they are moving their way up the ranks and I'm just unfortunate to fight them. Perhaps it's the fact that I had to disband my arena A-Team, "Elven Might" because using an all Elf team causes the game to freeze. Regardless there are some things that simply don't add up and the only way that they ever will is if there is complete transparency during PvP combat. The fact of the matter is that the computer already knows exactly what are you stats are and who your weak hero's are and from that it determines who to attack first. I don't see why they can't give us the same information it has during the actual combat. Not only would it make it more of a level playing field but it would also make cheaters much easier to spot as well.    
 
Lector5
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Re: Cheating

Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:00 pm

To badblackbishop:
1/ The only weird thing about all your encounters is the 13k poison damage from SW. Your hero gotta be a joke to be taking that much poison, or most likely, you are mistaken between poison and hex damage.

2/ The archer trigger squad is the easiest opponent you will face at high-end Arena. Its funny you cant even handle the basic Arena opponents, yet you're so confidently accusing the AI of cheating.

"They always hit my weakest hero!!!" Have you thought of placing a counter Aura hero in this weakest spot? " When hero get hit" and "When allies get hit" auras are your answers! Go to http://www.arathos.com/en/ and look them up to plan your squad.

The AI is so predictable, that the only real tier in Arena is Expert1, or above 3600, because this is where pure stats trumps over strategy. I consider everyone below 3600 to be newbies who lacks understanding of the game mechanic.

3/ There's no such thing as "Elven Might" for Arena. Each of them can be a key piece in a setup, but they're rubbish when put together, simply because all of them are considered "2nd round" hero for Arena, and they need the support from other factions to be useful in the 1st round.
 
badblackbishop
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Re: Cheating

Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:33 pm

To Lector5
1.)   If my understanding is correct the damage that is displayed in purple would be the poison damage. However I being a “newbie” I get easily confused so please correct me if I’m wrong.
 
2.)   With my limited knowledge of the game I have heard that one can create an anti-archer trigger team. In fact I have even read an article or two about it. But be honest the thought that there are only two real possibilities for PvP (Archer-trigger and anti-archer trigger teams) is quite boring and lacks imagination. With the veritable cornucopia of hero’s that one can choose it’s disappointing that viable options are so limited. As for the “They always hit my weakest hero” comment that was made to show that the AI indeed knows everything about your team while we are left completely in the dark about our opponent. And I’m glad you mentioned my lack of understanding with regards to the game mechanics. I was under the impression that no one knows the game mechanics for certain and that at best they have educated guesses. But it sounds like you’ve got it all figured out. So please by all means enlighten the rest of us with you wisdom. Because I would really like to know how the game really works and not be an ignorant newbie anymore. And I ask you this, if you cannot see the other opponents stats how do you know for sure that’s it legitimate? And the fact that the developers continue to leave us in the dark about certain things one cannot remove the possibility that I started this topic on.
 
3.)   Perhaps you are correct about my former team “Elven Might” I wouldn’t know because I had to disband them not because I was losing in the Arena and they didn’t work. They were disbanded because the game continued to freeze when they transformed into Celestial form. Maybe I would have gotten to a point when they were no longer a viable option.
 
Lector5
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Re: Cheating

Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:19 am

Badblackbishop,

Who exactly on your team received 13k poison ? It's weird, because people who can pull off that much poison, won't do so as it isn't ideal to build SW that way. Go ahead and record your fights if you believe the AI is cheating, so we can see who this wonderful SW is , and more importantly, to see if it's actually happened !

"We are left completely in the dark against the AI" Are you serious ? The stats range and abilities of heroes are known. Many players regard the AI as dumb computer. Battles are so repetitive that sometimes they're completely identical, like you are watching a replay. In fact, at the top, the competition is all about how much you're willing to spend on orbs, cause everybody has over 95% wine rate when the AI can't defend itself no matter how good of a team you set up for it.

Many people read this thread but nobody is helping you cause you insulted the player base. The players are all incompetent fools that do not realize the AI is cheating while you do ?

Btw, it's not just archers vs anti-archer, there are a lot more to the Arena. Feel free to use the archers if you believe they're so broken, see how far you get. You think the archers themselves don't have to worry about archers enemies ?
 
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Zvalmiekloranesh
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Re: Cheating

Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:51 am

badblackbishop wrote:
Maybe I'm just totally over rated and got lucky when I made it too the Diamond 1 class. Or maybe there are a lot of new players with some serious cash to spend and they are moving their way up the ranks and I'm just unfortunate to fight them.   

Actually, when an old player stops playing for a while in arena, his ranking drops and he's going from a checkpoint to the nearest lower one. 
Someone from my guild (zuebi) has a "be 1st in arena 3 times" frame on his profile, but he was diamond when I came in the guild because he left the game. He's probably Bronze or not even in the arena list anymore since, but you can find sometimes really good opponents back in the rankings.
 
badblackbishop
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Re: Cheating

Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:04 pm

My response to Lector5,
First I never said anyone was an incompetent fool nor have I implied it. All I have ever done was ask a few simple questions like "How do you know the AI isn't cheating if you don't know exactly how things are calculated in PvP?" And your are correct in the fact that we know what the hero's max stats can be and there skills and so forth. However we do not know if a particular hero has those stats necessary to perform that attack. And I apologize if offended anyone but saying the AI is cheating, as that was not my intent. Now why someone would be offered by the fact that I stated that the AI is cheating is beyond me. Now it would be a different story if I accused someone personally of cheating but I haven't done that. And if the player base finds it offensive that I question things that cannot be supported by facts, then they might want to a look at why they are getting so upset in the first place. I have never personal attacked someone for blindly believing in something nor have I ever intentionally belittle or insulted them. All I have done is asked how can they be certain of something if they don't know how it works. I now asked the one simple question that I have not found viable answer for and that is, Why can't we see the opponents stats during arena combat. I completely understand why you shouldn't get to see them before the battle starts but I have not heard a legitimate for not showing them during combat. This kind of transparency would not only make it a level playing field with regards to knowing what stats a player has, it will also allow us to verify how PvP combat works (As you would have all the number that went into the equation) it would also make spotting cheaters easier as well. And the fact that the developers refuse to not only tell us how PvP works but prevent us from reverse engineering it I find very suspicious. So call me what you will but I just don't like it when we are told everything is totally legitimate but they won't show us how it works.