Valiant Force Forum

You know my name? It's Mysterious, so I can't show anything here.
I do get your point, Something that would help would be if devs created a closed APK with some changes regarding nerfs and meta changing in Arena. They could choose some players to test those changes and report back to devs, so we can make mystics great again, their nerf was even worse than Healers.

Awfully convenient eh, claiming neutrality while keeping your lineup unrevealed?


Nothing was changed to mystics; only DEF was buffed to mitigate MAG damage, which indirectly hurt the over-dominant mystics back in the day. DEF itself needs to be reworked(to mitigate by percent instead of flat-reduction) to resolve:
1. Berserker's over-dominace
2. CRIT's interaction with DEF
3. Mystic's splash damage to actually do damage


I get the idea of your suggestion but I worry for the lack of motivation to commit resources for a PTR version so instead, I suggest a online player-vs-player arena mode where players could experiment with any sort of lineup with the ideal faith, LB-ed to level 40 and equipped with equipment of the highest tier. Players are then pit against one another to test the effectiveness of their experimental lineups. To up the stakes for a competitive version of this(where rewards are earned), points are earned for victories and lost for losses but on top of that, a pick/ban phase similar to that used in dota could be introduced. This way, players get to truly experiment for their lineups and define the meta by identifying the strongest heroes without committing their monetary resources beforehand.

No offense here to Mr.Mysterious Just giving theory. He is probably an experienced player, standing among the top guilds. Based on his knowledge to the game, I'm sure he's been playing for a long time in the game. Maybe P2P but everything is nothing more than a guess. Gaining good reputation, he can choose to reveal himself and become famous. Gaining bad reputation, he can just fade away without harming his true identity. He might be using a second account in this forum too. Seeing how often he post a post (like at least 30 posts a day), he is trying to accomplish something, like become one of the leading figures in the community.

Job balancing is one of the hardest thing to do because you can never accurately predict the result until you release the update to the public. With a small sample size you can hardly accomplish anything in time. Yes, the DEF defenitely need somemore rework. Any unit with weaker ATK will always deal low damage, my 3k attack winry always deal less than 200 with her normal attack, but when she use her skill, the damage can go up to as high as 3k.
One of the best way to fix mystic is probably making their attack deals a portion of magic damage, or purely magic damage. Right now they have low attack damage, low crit, low defense, low HP, skill CD is too long to be utilise nicely, the only thing that kill them alive is the unique skill or those players that patience enough to wait out those long skill CD. Allowing mystic to deal magic damage with their attack would probably giving them some places in the squad-building strategic, as to fight the unit with low MAG (everyone except mystic and healer).

No offense here to Mr.Mysterious Just giving theory. He is probably an experienced player, standing among the top guilds. Based on his knowledge to the game, I'm sure he's been playing for a long time in the game. Maybe P2P but everything is nothing more than a guess. Gaining good reputation, he can choose to reveal himself and become famous. Gaining bad reputation, he can just fade away without harming his true identity. He might be using a second account in this forum too. Seeing how often he post a post (like at least 30 posts a day), he is trying to accomplish something, like become one of the leading figures in the community.

Job balancing is one of the hardest thing to do because you can never accurately predict the result until you release the update to the public. With a small sample size you can hardly accomplish anything in time. Yes, the DEF defenitely need somemore rework. Any unit with weaker ATK will always deal low damage, my 3k attack winry always deal less than 200 with her normal attack, but when she use her skill, the damage can go up to as high as 3k.
One of the best way to fix mystic is probably making their attack deals a portion of magic damage, or purely magic damage. Right now they have low attack damage, low crit, low defense, low HP, skill CD is too long to be utilise nicely, the only thing that kill them alive is the unique skill or those players that patience enough to wait out those long skill CD. Allowing mystic to deal magic damage with their attack would probably giving them some places in the squad-building strategic, as to fight the unit with low MAG (everyone except mystic and healer).

Haha, I was thinking he could be Leonzai, lol!


Dealing pure magic damage for regular auto attacks would make the class a little bit too strong, but a mix of ATK and MATK could work. On top of everything else, DEF needs to be reworked ASAP.


The developers have been incredibly slow on balancing and reworks, but I reckon that they fear backlashes from the community should they introduce a large change too suddenly(which is exactly what they've been doing, lol). That's why I've been looking forward to small, minor buffs and changes in every patch so as to mitigate the potential backlash, while increasing the viability of off-meta heroes and increasing the hero variety in the arena.

I think you don't really remember what happened with mystics, but let's remind ourselves:

Nerf by Skill Area -> From Full Board to 3x3 Grid
Some Nerf on Aura Skill - Elementalist Kiera used to Buff 35% MAG based on her MAG
Nerf by new DEF mechanics -> Now DEF also Mitigates MAG damage in Arena
Nerf by lowering Skill Damage -> Kiera Elementalist could reach like 200%+ total MAG Based Skill + 2 Turns Burn, they lowered Skill Damage 40% (total) at average
Indirect Nerf by Buffing all Melee heroes by 15% status at average, Mystics, Healers and Rangers didn't get boost.

Now tell me if Mystics didn't get the nerf hammer? You don't see too many mystics on top Arena, maybe you will see some more Ronan now, but he has a mechanic that makes him more useful right now.

About the suggestion, there are some games that do this, mostly when they are more established, those chosen players even tease new content. It's a trend, even more in the era of streamers.

About Real Time Arena, give them time, it is really server stressful to do something like that, they will need a 3x better server for this.

Awfully convenient eh, claiming neutrality while keeping your lineup unrevealed?


Nothing was changed to mystics; only DEF was buffed to mitigate MAG damage, which indirectly hurt the over-dominant mystics back in the day. DEF itself needs to be reworked(to mitigate by percent instead of flat-reduction) to resolve:
1. Berserker's over-dominace
2. CRIT's interaction with DEF
3. Mystic's splash damage to actually do damage


I get the idea of your suggestion but I worry for the lack of motivation to commit resources for a PTR version so instead, I suggest a online player-vs-player arena mode where players could experiment with any sort of lineup with the ideal faith, LB-ed to level 40 and equipped with equipment of the highest tier. Players are then pit against one another to test the effectiveness of their experimental lineups. To up the stakes for a competitive version of this(where rewards are earned), points are earned for victories and lost for losses but on top of that, a pick/ban phase similar to that used in dota could be introduced. This way, players get to truly experiment for their lineups and define the meta by identifying the strongest heroes without committing their monetary resources beforehand.

No offense here to Mr.Mysterious Just giving theory. He is probably an experienced player, standing among the top guilds. Based on his knowledge to the game, I'm sure he's been playing for a long time in the game. Maybe P2P but everything is nothing more than a guess. Gaining good reputation, he can choose to reveal himself and become famous. Gaining bad reputation, he can just fade away without harming his true identity. He might be using a second account in this forum too. Seeing how often he post a post (like at least 30 posts a day), he is trying to accomplish something, like become one of the leading figures in the community.

Job balancing is one of the hardest thing to do because you can never accurately predict the result until you release the update to the public. With a small sample size you can hardly accomplish anything in time. Yes, the DEF defenitely need somemore rework. Any unit with weaker ATK will always deal low damage, my 3k attack winry always deal less than 200 with her normal attack, but when she use her skill, the damage can go up to as high as 3k.
One of the best way to fix mystic is probably making their attack deals a portion of magic damage, or purely magic damage. Right now they have low attack damage, low crit, low defense, low HP, skill CD is too long to be utilise nicely, the only thing that kill them alive is the unique skill or those players that patience enough to wait out those long skill CD. Allowing mystic to deal magic damage with their attack would probably giving them some places in the squad-building strategic, as to fight the unit with low MAG (everyone except mystic and healer).

You Sr. MrLocket does not offend me, as you speak with you heart, I'm not sure what you call an experienced player, but I play since the beginning and I sure love this game!

I respect your guesses about me, but who knows, let's keep it a mystery, like my name, shall we?

Yes, balance is the most terrible thing to do in a online game, everything is a constancy, just a misstep and you will have to fix, sometimes when you do notice, it's too late and to change it you may bring uproar to you player base, just like launch patch.

There's a lot of ways to make mystics great again, some options from my head right now:
Normal ATK based on ATK but deals MAG Damage.
Lower CD to some jobs or Change the CD at least for PVE
Modify damage scaling of Skill MAG damage.

About a closed ongoing test, they really need to do this, maybe with dummy account handled to top Arena players, they may give a better feedback than the devs internal feedback.

I think you don't really remember what happened with mystics, but let's remind ourselves:

Nerf by Skill Area -> From Full Board to 3x3 Grid
Some Nerf on Aura Skill - Elementalist Kiera used to Buff 35% MAG based on her MAG
Nerf by new DEF mechanics -> Now DEF also Mitigates MAG damage in Arena
Nerf by lowering Skill Damage -> Kiera Elementalist could reach like 200%+ total MAG Based Skill + 2 Turns Burn, they lowered Skill Damage 40% (total) at average
Indirect Nerf by Buffing all Melee heroes by 15% status at average, Mystics, Healers and Rangers didn't get boost.

Now tell me if Mystics didn't get the nerf hammer? You don't see too many mystics on top Arena, maybe you will see some more Ronan now, but he has a mechanic that makes him more useful right now.

About the suggestion, there are some games that do this, mostly when they are more established, those chosen players even tease new content. It's a trend, even more in the era of streamers.

About Real Time Arena, give them time, it is really server stressful to do something like that, they will need a 3x better server for this.

Oh darn it, I guess I miss our beloved leonzai and his insightful advices too much! D'X


No one's denying kiera was hit hard by the nerf hammer, but I actually love what the developers have been doing, steadily nerfing her back when she was so strong. Dev's be like, "Look, I just nerfed her again! Stop abusing her in the arena and give the rest of the heroes a look!" until one day, "Oh, that's it! Enough with Kiera auto-winning the arena with her skill! Off to the shadow realm you go!"


Despite the nerf, I could still see her potential in a PVE "raid boss mode", featuring a high-DEF, 0-MAG 3x3-tile-size (affected by Kiera elementalist's entire skill) boss that deals high single-target, ATK-based attack but can be taunted(here comes Darrion's turn to shine!). Boss drops raid-exclusive crafting materials that can be used to craft 5/6* equipment but limited to once-a-month per type of equipment. See, while she has fallen off from being a demi-goddess in the arena, the developers should be creating an alternative platform/mode for non-PVP oriented heroes to shine.


P.S. Took a lot from 7Knights but hey, look at how successful they are! Huge player pool and so well-crafted, but I really like VF's aura system

No offense here to Mr.Mysterious Just giving theory. He is probably an experienced player, standing among the top guilds. Based on his knowledge to the game, I'm sure he's been playing for a long time in the game. Maybe P2P but everything is nothing more than a guess. Gaining good reputation, he can choose to reveal himself and become famous. Gaining bad reputation, he can just fade away without harming his true identity. He might be using a second account in this forum too. Seeing how often he post a post (like at least 30 posts a day), he is trying to accomplish something, like become one of the leading figures in the community.

Job balancing is one of the hardest thing to do because you can never accurately predict the result until you release the update to the public. With a small sample size you can hardly accomplish anything in time. Yes, the DEF defenitely need somemore rework. Any unit with weaker ATK will always deal low damage, my 3k attack winry always deal less than 200 with her normal attack, but when she use her skill, the damage can go up to as high as 3k.
One of the best way to fix mystic is probably making their attack deals a portion of magic damage, or purely magic damage. Right now they have low attack damage, low crit, low defense, low HP, skill CD is too long to be utilise nicely, the only thing that kill them alive is the unique skill or those players that patience enough to wait out those long skill CD. Allowing mystic to deal magic damage with their attack would probably giving them some places in the squad-building strategic, as to fight the unit with low MAG (everyone except mystic and healer).

You Sr. MrLocket does not offend me, as you speak with you heart, I'm not sure what you call an experienced player, but I play since the beginning and I sure love this game!

I respect your guesses about me, but who knows, let's keep it a mystery, like my name, shall we?

Yes, balance is the most terrible thing to do in a online game, everything is a constancy, just a misstep and you will have to fix, sometimes when you do notice, it's too late and to change it you may bring uproar to you player base, just like launch patch.

There's a lot of ways to make mystics great again, some options from my head right now:
Normal ATK based on ATK but deals MAG Damage.
Lower CD to some jobs or Change the CD at least for PVE
Modify damage scaling of Skill MAG damage.

About a closed ongoing test, they really need to do this, maybe with dummy account handled to top Arena players, they may give a better feedback than the devs internal feedback.

The best way to bring mystic back to live is probably shorten the skill cooldown while reducing the damage, making them more of a skill spammer rather than 1 time nuker.
As for now, Kiera the elementalist can deals a total of 235% magic damage for every 7 turn. She doesn't really stand a chance in arena as the cooldown is too long to be useful, basically using a 235% magic damage with a cost of 2 move, it become even worse when there is only 1~2 squadmates left. Yes the skill is very painful when the AoE caught all the enemy unit, but most of the time it doesn't kill anyone unless the HP is low. The best way to rework them is probably changing the skill cooldown to somewhere of 3 or 4 turns, while nerfing the damage to 100% initial damage and 20% DoT perhaps. In this way, Kiera can reliably deal 100% magical "attack" every turn in arena, an easy counter to this would be silence, which makes a lot of sense as silence is the worst nightmare to a spell user in logical thinking.

P.S. the term "experience player" simply means a player who used to the game.

You Sr. MrLocket does not offend me, as you speak with you heart, I'm not sure what you call an experienced player, but I play since the beginning and I sure love this game!

I respect your guesses about me, but who knows, let's keep it a mystery, like my name, shall we?

Yes, balance is the most terrible thing to do in a online game, everything is a constancy, just a misstep and you will have to fix, sometimes when you do notice, it's too late and to change it you may bring uproar to you player base, just like launch patch.

There's a lot of ways to make mystics great again, some options from my head right now:
Normal ATK based on ATK but deals MAG Damage.
Lower CD to some jobs or Change the CD at least for PVE
Modify damage scaling of Skill MAG damage.

About a closed ongoing test, they really need to do this, maybe with dummy account handled to top Arena players, they may give a better feedback than the devs internal feedback.

The best way to bring mystic back to live is probably shorten the skill cooldown while reducing the damage, making them more of a skill spammer rather than 1 time nuker.
As for now, Kiera the elementalist can deals a total of 235% magic damage for every 7 turn. She doesn't really stand a chance in arena as the cooldown is too long to be useful, basically using a 235% magic damage with a cost of 2 move, it become even worse when there is only 1~2 squadmates left. Yes the skill is very painful when the AoE caught all the enemy unit, but most of the time it doesn't kill anyone unless the HP is low. The best way to rework them is probably changing the skill cooldown to somewhere of 3 or 4 turns, while nerfing the damage to 100% initial damage and 20% DoT perhaps. In this way, Kiera can reliably deal 100% magical "attack" every turn in arena, an easy counter to this would be silence, which makes a lot of sense as silence is the worst nightmare to a spell user in logical thinking.

P.S. the term "experience player" simply means a player who used to the game.

Devs would never reduce Skill CD to less than 5 turns because of Arena balance. That's something difficult you know, thinking about CD skill that is balanced for Arena and PVE, that's why the attack rework for mystics is more easy to implement without disrupting balance. I suggested on the other reply how it could work.

The best way to bring mystic back to live is probably shorten the skill cooldown while reducing the damage, making them more of a skill spammer rather than 1 time nuker.
As for now, Kiera the elementalist can deals a total of 235% magic damage for every 7 turn. She doesn't really stand a chance in arena as the cooldown is too long to be useful, basically using a 235% magic damage with a cost of 2 move, it become even worse when there is only 1~2 squadmates left. Yes the skill is very painful when the AoE caught all the enemy unit, but most of the time it doesn't kill anyone unless the HP is low. The best way to rework them is probably changing the skill cooldown to somewhere of 3 or 4 turns, while nerfing the damage to 100% initial damage and 20% DoT perhaps. In this way, Kiera can reliably deal 100% magical "attack" every turn in arena, an easy counter to this would be silence, which makes a lot of sense as silence is the worst nightmare to a spell user in logical thinking.

P.S. the term "experience player" simply means a player who used to the game.

Devs would never reduce Skill CD to less than 5 turns because of Arena balance. That's something difficult you know, thinking about CD skill that is balanced for Arena and PVE, that's why the attack rework for mystics is more easy to implement without disrupting balance. I suggested on the other reply how it could work.

There are skills with less than 5 turn CD. Plus if you have refresh, you can use skill with 7 turn CD during the first round (the turns before all unit has finished their moves). It is viable for mystic to have 3 or 4 turn cd skill, remember that the initial damage is only 100%, which is way lower than other nuke of other job.

Devs would never reduce Skill CD to less than 5 turns because of Arena balance. That's something difficult you know, thinking about CD skill that is balanced for Arena and PVE, that's why the attack rework for mystics is more easy to implement without disrupting balance. I suggested on the other reply how it could work.

There are skills with less than 5 turn CD. Plus if you have refresh, you can use skill with 7 turn CD during the first round (the turns before all unit has finished their moves). It is viable for mystic to have 3 or 4 turn cd skill, remember that the initial damage is only 100%, which is way lower than other nuke of other job.

That would be too OP, locket. If you haven't noticed, skills with 4-turn cooldown-s are utility-based skills meant to stun/swap places. A purely damage skill should never be able to be used every of the mystic's turn in the arena.

The best way to bring mystic back to live is probably shorten the skill cooldown while reducing the damage, making them more of a skill spammer rather than 1 time nuker.
As for now, Kiera the elementalist can deals a total of 235% magic damage for every 7 turn. She doesn't really stand a chance in arena as the cooldown is too long to be useful, basically using a 235% magic damage with a cost of 2 move, it become even worse when there is only 1~2 squadmates left. Yes the skill is very painful when the AoE caught all the enemy unit, but most of the time it doesn't kill anyone unless the HP is low. The best way to rework them is probably changing the skill cooldown to somewhere of 3 or 4 turns, while nerfing the damage to 100% initial damage and 20% DoT perhaps. In this way, Kiera can reliably deal 100% magical "attack" every turn in arena, an easy counter to this would be silence, which makes a lot of sense as silence is the worst nightmare to a spell user in logical thinking.

P.S. the term "experience player" simply means a player who used to the game.

Devs would never reduce Skill CD to less than 5 turns because of Arena balance. That's something difficult you know, thinking about CD skill that is balanced for Arena and PVE, that's why the attack rework for mystics is more easy to implement without disrupting balance. I suggested on the other reply how it could work.

There are skills with less than 5 turn CD. Plus if you have refresh, you can use skill with 7 turn CD during the first round (the turns before all unit has finished their moves). It is viable for mystic to have 3 or 4 turn cd skill, remember that the initial damage is only 100%, which is way lower than other nuke of other job.