Valiant Force Forum

Ty Asherwind for ur support

@WhiteChocolate i will respect urs but i also disagree with ur argument, i will agree if merge rune is an end game content, but the current talent system i will consider that potential game breaking, the hint already shown unintentionally by MiloD in discussion about freiya gladiator, so i am sure this is game changing if not game breaking, so i hope dev have a proper response about this, bcs i will not go on detail in the forum bcs my 2 statement in my previous post already enough hint, if they play the game as long as i am they will catch my hint.

wow what, only whale can hit that in short time, people keep asking us to show some respect to f2p player(so we show no respect to whale?) and also, people can and eventually hit it you just need time. so if you are middle tier player i see no problem with that. feel free to discuss.

you didn't get my point,  my point is the cost is unreasonably too high, if they can lower the cost, it doesn't mean mid player can max it in a day, don't worry about that i am reasonable player, even with merge rune system i am not all *6 rune at all & i have np for that.
i will give u a hint, why the nerf cost for me it's needed even mandatory, before talent when we choose to boost damage it will make other stat stale, so it make the comptetive scene seems reasonable to do, for now the avg def for champion about 3k - 4k without buff, with talent it can reach 10k like MiloD shown in freiya gladiator, the game will enter ... Era.
so what is my propose solution? if dev won't nerf the cost flat for every TP, u can scale the TP based on how many  TP we already gain, from cheap cost & gradually become harder when we have a certain number of TP. so at least with that ppl still having some hope to increase the talent.

you mean like hero training? good idea thou, but talent system is still beta, maybe just give them sometime. (plus i really need to say this,healer talent tree really need to rework =-= )

wow what, only whale can hit that in short time, people keep asking us to show some respect to f2p player(so we show no respect to whale?) and also, people can and eventually hit it you just need time. so if you are middle tier player i see no problem with that. feel free to discuss.

you didn't get my point,  my point is the cost is unreasonably too high, if they can lower the cost, it doesn't mean mid player can max it in a day, don't worry about that i am reasonable player, even with merge rune system i am not all *6 rune at all & i have np for that.
i will give u a hint, why the nerf cost for me it's needed even mandatory, before talent when we choose to boost damage it will make other stat stale, so it make the comptetive scene seems reasonable to do, for now the avg def for champion about 3k - 4k without buff, with talent it can reach 10k like MiloD shown in freiya gladiator, the game will enter ... Era.
so what is my propose solution? if dev won't nerf the cost flat for every TP, u can scale the TP based on how many  TP we already gain, from cheap cost & gradually become harder when we have a certain number of TP. so at least with that ppl still having some hope to increase the talent.

you mean like hero training? good idea thou, but talent system is still beta, maybe just give them sometime. (plus i really need to say this,healer talent tree really need to rework =-= )

Yeah u get it right xD, & bcs this is still beta we need to give them our input, bcs dev tend to give beta test really challenging like Guild raid when in it's beta, if we don't give them input they will think we got no problem here , so i really hope we can have a healthy discussion regarding this issue

Like what Sonny6166 said, its not meant to be maxed in 1 day.

If you think its hard, let me give you some tips:  use extra copies of same heroes!

Talent Foddler %:
3* 5%
4* 15%
5* 100%
3* same hero 105%
4* same hero 215% (regardless of classes)
5* same hero 400%  (regardless of classes)

Who would in the right mind feed a same hero as fodder for talent tree when he/she has not been MLBed? And wasn't all valiants cannot be used as for fodder whatsoever (thus cannot use their own copy to make use of the same hero bonus)?

Yes, I can see the talent tree may function for regular hero to close the gap of stat to the valiants, since the latter has been buffed by a good amount in stat department. I can see that this is also a way for the less used heroes to be able to have an edge over the meta heroes,

But then again, who would bother to touch the less used heroes unless the player is eccentric, like to experiment with the underdog, and have so much time and resource to spend?

How long do you think it will take for a regular player before they can fully use this feature? A year? 2 years? The problem here is that the meta will always change. The needs for new heroes will always appear; For most players, 3-4* heroes will always be a precious commodity because it's required to advance their new hero(es).
Unless of course, they opt to use the more costly way of using 2* heroes for fodder.

And don't forget RNG (It took me 2 months before I got my second vincent, a month before I got my 2nd drake, I lost count of how long I've been waiting for my 3rd Cybella, and it's only recently I got my 2nd Freya. I do have several copies of luthor, teresa, theia, izumi, and sora, and my fifth Faye just recently.)


Yes, we now get gems, golds, and phoenix hatchling from raising a hero. The hatchling especially help in raising a 5*, releasing some weight and the needs to use extra 3* or 4* for traiining fodder. If they one day they make the soul warden a permanent drop instead of a week event only drop, it will be even more helping. Also, I saw a post regarding recipe where we can get a particular hero from it. I just hope the recipe feature won't be some 'end game content disguised as general use feature' like some other (if not all) extra features the dev has been introducing to us recently.

Until then, I will just say that only the most determined of normal player, or one that can see where the game is going (thus can easily make the most effective investment in building hero), will be the only ones that can make use of the hero talent feature (other than the whales of course).

By the way, thank you for the information. It's nice to know there is some more depth to this feature.

I agree. This talent tree itself is consider an end game enhancement. However, if we were to be fair to the entire community regardless of the players who spend or not, may I suggest a form of miscellaneous drop in a dedicated dungeon like Capital dungeon or Mine dungeon alike to drop this miscellaneous enhancement item like maybe a stone.

With that, everyone can slowly build up and focus on the talent tree for their herors instead of using fodders. As we all know that fodders in this game is considered an expensive resource. So if we have a separate form of enhancement, the players won't be so pressured.

Have some grading for this stone for example a red 3☆ stone can upgrade the ATK node for about 12% while using any other coloured stone aside from red (assuming 3☆) to upgrade an ATK node 3%.

To address abundance of unused stones, say maybe you are not using them, you can introduce a salvage system to turn these stones into pebbles or something and these can be used to craft the stone type that you require.

Like what Sonny6166 said, its not meant to be maxed in 1 day.

If you think its hard, let me give you some tips:  use extra copies of same heroes!

Talent Foddler %:
3* 5%
4* 15%
5* 100%
3* same hero 105%
4* same hero 215% (regardless of classes)
5* same hero 400%  (regardless of classes)

Who would in the right mind feed a same hero as fodder for talent tree when he/she has not been MLBed? And wasn't all valiants cannot be used as for fodder whatsoever (thus cannot use their own copy to make use of the same hero bonus)?

Thank you, thats exactly the point. Its an end-game feature. You only see it as a problem because you want to be able to move up the talent tree quickly.
I do have a marksman aaron with 17/25 talent points..  you CAN go through the talent trees quickly if you get creative. Also there's the issue of resource management, instead of deeming the talent system useless because you cannot fully benefit it at this point of time, why not focus on what you can do?  If you think talent system is game breaking, you can stop using your 3* fodder to train your heroes and dump it all as talent fodder.instead.   

I dont actually mind about the length of time I need to get a single talent point. I'm already very familiar with long grinding from years of experience in playing generic mmorpg.

I also know that with some planning, it's possible to set aside enough fodder to accomodate the talent system. Just need to plan it through and ignore some temptations.

What I'm worried about is the gap that will appear in the meantime. Heavy spender will be able to speed things up, quickly widening the already huge gap between them and light spenders/f2p players.

Edit: well, scratch that. I honestly dont really care about the gap as I'm not even playing competitively.

All I want when I posted in this thread was just added convinience in using lower rarity of heroes as fodder.


I just cant help but to think that it's actually the dev's concealed message that says "go buy some gems already". Hahaha

I dont actually mind about the length of time I need to get a single talent point. I'm already very familiar with long grinding from years of experience in playing generic mmorpg.

I also know that with some planning, it's possible to set aside enough fodder to accomodate the talent system. Just need to plan it through and ignore some temptations.

What I'm worried about is the gap that will appear in the meantime. Heavy spender will be able to speed things up, quickly widening the already huge gap between them and light spenders/f2p  players.

Edit: well, scratch that. I honestly dont really care about the gap as I'm not even playing competitively.

All I want when I posted in this thread was just added convinience in using lower rarity of heroes as fodder.


I just cant help but to think that it's actually the dev's concealed message that says "go buy some gems already". Hahaha

I'm glad we're at the same page , in contrary to you i play mostly bcs the arena, but i'm glad u understand that in arena/competitive it will give a huge margin of gap, My experience about gaming maybe similiar like yours, generally i just play pc game like MMORPG & others, but when i got recomended by my friend about VF i am about skeptical, bcs based on my research on mobile gaming, mobile game tend to extremely P2W, but not with VF, bcs VF still giving some creativity to give us not a whaler to compete, That also why VF is my first mobile game that breaking my skeptical behaviour toward mobile gaming, but in the end if they are the same as any other mobile game, maybe i will say farewell to my first mobile game. but don't worry i still trust vf dev & admin bcs they are very active to work on our input, 
my example regarding this is the guild raid, they make guild raid reasonable gradually almost every patch, but i only suggest don't to slow pls, bcs guild raid already give many victim within my friend & my previous guild already disband, & i hope u really take this matters seriously.
PS: This matters might be not a big issue yet, but trust me it will eventually, if the majority can accept the current system, u might be only losing me

Hey guys!

Great feedback! Please look out for my thread in a couple of hours regarding this new feature in this section! The devs would like to hear more from you!

Remember, constructive conversations help EVERYONE. 

Cheers! I love you guys!

Hey guys!

Great feedback! Please look out for my thread in a couple of hours regarding this new feature in this section! The devs would like to hear more from you!

Remember, constructive conversations help EVERYONE. 

Cheers! I love you guys!

Thank you for taking care of us
We love you too (even if maybe not all of us, at least I do )


Anyway, I need to correct myself about my opinion of limit break vs talent system on my earlier post.

After some discussing with my guildsmates concerning the talent system, we came into conclusion that some heroes might profit more in using talent system more than limit break. Some heroes like Drake who can ignore the growth of other stats outside of his attack will benefit more in using copies of himself to raise talent points rather than be used to limit break.

A max limit break Dragoon Drake with Ares faith has 5585 base attack, while a +2 lvl 30 and fully trained Drake has 4509 base attack (source: VF gallery)
That means Drake gains around 1k base attack from sacrificing 5 copies of himself to reach max limit break.

In contrast, using 5 copies of 5* Dragoon Drake to fuel talent tree will garner us 20 talent points. There are 16 nodes in the talent tree that adds base attack only. Each nodes on attack talent tree gives 125 base attack. Which mean it will give us 2000 base attack, plus extra 5 talent points (4 + 1 free talent point we get from max train and level +2 hero) that we can freely use on anything else (increasing secondary damage from Dragoon's pierce attack, or maybe to other stat path), at the same cost needed to Max Limit Break Dragoon Drake.

Dragoon Drake being the core member of SDD team that can continuously deal attack trigger damage right from the start  may ditch defense and hp stat because if everything went well, enemy won't even have the chance to attack at all.

Other heroes that can benefit well from talent tree more than limit breaking also include: Victoria CK (pumping Defense for extreme amount of survivability and more benefit from her aura), all Sharpshooters (because they generally scale well with higher attack stat), Nadia (all of her classes), all shadows that can take roguekensei path (kensei paths tend to scale on attack more than crit. One talent skill can convert base crit into attack. And to reach that node, we have to get past several nodes of attack tree, which translates to more attack), Vincent Gladiator (you'd want to pump his attack anyway in order to toughen his hp shield and benefit more from his aura), Sven (berserker wyvern's stat scales from his attack. Also being part of trigger team which makes counter attack from enemies less worrisome).

For now that's all the heroes I can think about. Feel free to add more into the list if you find any worthy addition

The main problem is, bonus stat is too high and it will add to base stat, it means all percentage from eq will also increase, it so costly at all, for f2p player its so hard to fight, and its like u have to pay more for win