Valiant Force Forum

Is it your first time playing mobile game like this?
IMO, VF is already one of the better mobile game with nice gameplay and good char progression.
You should check out 7K or even Dot Arena. No skills required, just throw in $$$ and hope for the best.

Have you tried the older MMO games like diablo 2 or Ragnarok online?
Or maybe even WoW?

Endless hours of grinding and killing of monsters just to get a item. More time spent into it = higher chance of getting it, Its all RNG as well. Some item have 0.01% chance of drop rate, some even lower. (RO monster/MVP cards)
I was a hardcore raider back in burning crusade in WoW. Those who raid will understand the pain.

The difference between VF and Diablo 2 RO WoW is that,
they dont limit your progression, and guess what?
Diablo 2 cost $60 back then, RO had a subscription fee of $20 a month.
Wow cost around 15 USD a month and another 60 + expansion

VF is FREE, where the peoples at the top (20-30%)pay for the rest of the F2P 70-80%. Of course, game company need to entice players to spend. Its just the way the mobile gaming is. Its also due to our own habit, why would i pay $40-60 dollars on a mobile game VS a game which is F2P, then decide if i want to spend. 

Personally, I dont mind paying 20-30 dollars a month, as i can play with my friends anywhere, where most of us dont have time, since we are all working adults now.

What isnt fun to you, maybe fun to others.
Cheers!

Except in RO there's trading so you can farm gold to trade that for a card. The problem OP mentions here is the time gating issue that limit the f2p a lot. Even in 7k, the time gating isn't too much of a problem as there is more contents and they give out more keys (energy) for players to use. The RNG isn't too limited as there is hero selector ticket that you can redeem as well as chessboard to guarantee a special hero. You don't mind paying money but some people do. I completely understand that VF is a relative new game but these issue that OP brings up is legitimate and cause real frustration and should be keep in mind for future development. It's not possible to fix everything at once but you can't just completely dismiss it because "other games is doing it too".

In addition, you can already see these two problems in this event. 250 runs in the events and two of the quests make you rely on RNG completely.

 think that sense of self entitlement is pretty wrong for a pure f2p players

especially since you are relying for the whales to keep the game going

and VF is already generous enough compared to the other f2p gacha mobile RPGs
the progress pace depends largely on your formation and strategy, in which some games like deck heroes put RNG to a whole new level with

You have to also understand that they don't just add these limitations because they hate f2p and want people to spend. Its main reason is because the game is so new there's not enough content. If everyone all can clear the story line and everything, then people will just quit.

and VF is already generous enough compared to the other f2p gacha mobile RPGs
the progress pace depends largely on your formation and strategy, in which some games like deck heroes put RNG to a whole new level with

I probably hear this defense being used for literally every mobile games. Each games have their own way to balance f2p and whale, newbie and veteran. VF isn't there yet because again, given the lack of end game content, they can't just give out many free items.

think that sense of self entitlement is pretty wrong for a pure f2p players

It's not about entitlement of wanting free stuffs. It's about the frustration of being held back due to things outside of your control. Imagine being stuck in a traffic. People would rather take the longer way if it means taking more times and gas than being stuck in the traffic doing nothing. 

well then, take a longer way, play other game while waiting the energy 

well then, take a longer way, play other game while waiting the energy 

You're essentially saying stay home and wait for the traffic to clear up before going. If you have nothing good to say don't say it. This is a suggestion thread. You don't have to dismiss an idea to the end (or even reply to it) because you personally don't agree with it. 

I'll just point out again that time gating can still be viewed positively. Majority of people doesn't have an infinite amount of time to sink into one game. We maybe busy with our work or maybe just have play another great game that we love. And this sort of even outs the playing for all of the F2P players cause I know, F2P ones can never compete with the whales. And also, if i have to just play the same game for most of the time of day, i'll just burn out and drop the game fast. 

And even for the great pay to play games like WoW, Guild Wars, they still gate people weekly from the raiding gear mainly because if they don't, people will just devour their content and the players don't have anything to do anymore. VF seems to be same, it still doesn't have a lot more content to go through.

Is it your first time playing mobile game like this?
IMO, VF is already one of the better mobile game with nice gameplay and good char progression.
You should check out 7K or even Dot Arena. No skills required, just throw in $$$ and hope for the best.

Have you tried the older MMO games like diablo 2 or Ragnarok online?
Or maybe even WoW?

Endless hours of grinding and killing of monsters just to get a item. More time spent into it = higher chance of getting it, Its all RNG as well. Some item have 0.01% chance of drop rate, some even lower. (RO monster/MVP cards)
I was a hardcore raider back in burning crusade in WoW. Those who raid will understand the pain.

The difference between VF and Diablo 2 RO WoW is that,
they dont limit your progression, and guess what?
Diablo 2 cost $60 back then, RO had a subscription fee of $20 a month.
Wow cost around 15 USD a month and another 60 + expansion

VF is FREE, where the peoples at the top (20-30%)pay for the rest of the F2P 70-80%. Of course, game company need to entice players to spend. Its just the way the mobile gaming is. Its also due to our own habit, why would i pay $40-60 dollars on a mobile game VS a game which is F2P, then decide if i want to spend. 

Personally, I dont mind paying 20-30 dollars a month, as i can play with my friends anywhere, where most of us dont have time, since we are all working adults now.

What isnt fun to you, maybe fun to others.
Cheers!

Except in RO there's trading so you can farm gold to trade that for a card. The problem OP mentions here is the time gating issue that limit the f2p a lot. Even in 7k, the time gating isn't too much of a problem as there is more contents and they give out more keys (energy) for players to use. The RNG isn't too limited as there is hero selector ticket that you can redeem as well as chessboard to guarantee a special hero. You don't mind paying money but some people do. I completely understand that VF is a relative new game but these issue that OP brings up is legitimate and cause real frustration and should be keep in mind for future development. It's not possible to fix everything at once but you can't just completely dismiss it because "other games is doing it too".

except in RO you are paying a subscription for $20 dollars a month. Of course they allow you to farm gold and do much more. 
Time gating for a new game isnt a bad thing, most players nowadays only have like what, 2-3 hours of free time everyday?
So those who are free for the whole day, they can keep playing non-stop and progress really far ahead VS those people like me that only have 2 hours a day, willing to pay and then i stop playing cause im lagging behind? Im sure VF dont want this. Its to keep the players together and prevent people from getting too far ahead.
This is also the issue with WoW back then, end game content only for the hardcore gamers, but most people dont have that kind of time. Casual WoW players just go PVP and raid once in a while and log off. Most content are kinda gated due to not enough gear & reputation. So WoW became more casual, raid have various difficulty to let everyone enjoy.   
Have you tried 7k when it just started? Chessboard dont exist back then, hero selector is kinda rare. First valiant at end of 7 days, 5* selector at end of 30 days(iirc) and its only those hero that you already have. The element that allow you to go up a star, 1 X 3* for each element every week. Thats a time gate right there, compared to VF, you only need to farm 3-4 days for 3* to 4*, and as you level they give you more job key (like what reizen said in this post)

VF give you valiant on the first day and another valiant at end of a month. Unhappy with the valiant? re-roll instantly.

In VF arena, at least you need some skills and understanding of hero to play properly.
In 7k arena, its pure RNG and meta is always the same, they make you chase the meta week after week. New hero = OP, no new hero = lose.

Of course, VF isnt perfect, the faith system need some balancing, curtain things need rebalancing, but the things that TS is complaining about, imo, isnt as bad as what he said if he has done his proper research.
All this issues of time gating is due to the limited content of VF, im 1000% sure it will be lifted once theres new content rolling out. They have to do it, or new players will be lagging behind badly.

except in RO you are paying a subscription for $20 dollars a month. Of course they allow you to farm gold and do much more. 
Time gating for a new game isnt a bad thing, most players nowadays only have like what, 2-3 hours of free time everyday?
So those who are free for the whole day, they can keep playing non-stop and progress really far ahead VS those people like me that only have 2 hours a day, willing to pay and then i stop playing cause im lagging behind? Im sure VF dont want this. Its to keep the players together and prevent people from getting too far ahead.
This is also the issue with WoW back then, end game content only for the hardcore gamers, but most people dont have that kind of time. Casual WoW players just go PVP and raid once in a while and log off. Most content are kinda gated due to not enough gear & reputation. So WoW became more casual, raid have various difficulty to let everyone enjoy.  
Have you tried 7k when it just started? Chessboard dont exist back then, hero selector is kinda rare. First valiant at end of 7 days, 5* selector at end of 30 days(iirc) and its only those hero that you already have. The element that allow you to go up a star, 1 X 3* for each element every week. Thats a time gate right there, compared to VF, you only need to farm 3-4 days for 3* to 4*, and as you level they give you more job key (like what reizen said in this post)

VF give you valiant on the first day and another valiant at end of a month. Unhappy with the valiant? re-roll instantly.

In VF arena, at least you need some skills and understanding of hero to play properly.
In 7k arena, its pure RNG and meta is always the same, they make you chase the meta week after week. New hero = OP, no new hero = lose.

Of course, VF isnt perfect, the faith system need some balancing, curtain things need rebalancing, but the things that TS is complaining about, imo, isnt as bad as what he said if he has done his proper research.
All this issues of time gating is due to the limited content of VF, im 1000% sure it will be lifted once theres new content rolling out. They have to do it, or new players will be lagging behind badly.

Why even bring up RO if you going to dismiss my argument with a "they're a different type of game(f2p as opposed to subscription)" then?
I understand the point of timegating. I get it. There isn't a lot of content and not everyone has the time on their hand. So by limited the amount of times the players can play, they won't get bored of the game by being able to play too much and make sure everyone will be on the same track. However, the mentioned time-gating by OP really separate the f2p with the people who pay (not necessarily to win). Job's key is probably the biggest one. Job keys is arguably one of the biggest factor that help players progress into end game. Each players get 5 job keys (more with higher prestige?) with each additional 5 keys costing 25 gem and double the cost for each additional 5. People who pay will simply buy more job keys and progress faster than f2p. I started more than a week ago and I just barely got my first 5* today. 
I played 7k 1 months after it was released and the start of it is a lot more "easy-going" than VF. They gave you 200 rubies and a 5* element necessary for you to upgrade your first 6*. As well as some hero to help you start. Their limited factor was the mastery. It costs so much to get those mastery to max to get you "equal" to someone who pay. But they make it balance by giving the f2p the ability to farm rubies.
The problem of with arena in 7k is that there will always be a strong team comp that will dominate the top. However, while not having the units and gears good enough to compete with those at the top 1%, I could still stay within top 200. The arena in VF blows. I'm facing against team with 3 5* that just one shot my team. The RNG of whoever going first doesn't help either because half the time, the first player to occupy the spot in the middle win. 
Don't get me wrong. I agree with you on the issue of time gating. VF is relative new now so I don't expect them to give out free stuff. I'm just saying, OP has a point from what he said and I can imagine that a f2p will be left behind.

The arena in VF blows. I'm facing against team with 3 5* that just one shot my team. The RNG of whoever going first doesn't help either because half the time, the first player to occupy the spot in the middle win. 

It is not exactly the game's fault if you are joining with a team of 1* and getting one shotted by 3 5*. Just come back when you have your own matching 5*. The loses in the arena didn't really bother me when I first started this game cause I know it's normal. Construct your own team of 5* and then only think of climbing the ladder. 

as for advantage for players who occupy the spot due to going first, that is also not true. this game has lots of depth and strategy. I love it when I go second. Cause when I go second, my freya will kill their back liners with pierce while heavily injuring the front liners when they occupy the middle spot. also if you invest in displacement units like warlocks for arena, you will have quite a breeze in arena.