• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 16
 
User avatar
Ryozanki
Valiant Administrator
Valiant Administrator
Topic Author
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:07 pm

Updates and feedback on Guild Raid

Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:11 pm

[Beta Version Update 2 - 30th March 2017]

Dear Valiants,

Thank you for all your feedback thus far regarding the beta version of the new Guild Raid system.  

Based on community suggestions and internal testing, we have revised the difficulty of first 2 raid bosses on 30th March 2017.

Please take note that the update is now live.

Emerald Serpent

1. Reduce Head attack by 30%
2. Reduce Tail attack by 30%
3. Reduce Head defense by 30%
4. Reduce Tail defense by 30%
5. Reduce Mini Snake attack by 25%
6. Reduce Mini Snake defense by 25%
7. Increase “Sting” skill CD from 1 to 2 turns
8. Slightly reduce overtime damage from “Acid pool” skill for both phases
9. Slightly reduce damage caused by “Venom Curse” skill for both phases
10. Slightly reduce damage caused by “Tail Swept” skill for both phases

Important note: The skill damage for Emerald Serpent's "Venom Curse I" was bugged, causing it to deal extremely low damage. It will be fixed on 30th March at 13:30 server time (GMT +8).

Cyclops Chieftain

1. Reduce Head attack by 30%
2. Reduce Arms attack by 30%
3. Reduce Head defense by 30%
4. Reduce Arms defense by 30%
5. Reduce Ogre attack by 20%
6. Reduce Ogre defense by 20%
7. Greatly reduce damage caused by “Cyclops Gaze” skill for both phases
8. Slightly reduce damage caused by “Earth Spike” skill for both phases

We will have a new Developer Blog on the upcoming changes to the Guild Raid and game! The Developer Blog will be ready by next week, and we can't wait to share the details with everyone.

In the meantime, each and every feedback is valuable as we continue to refine the Guild Raid system, so please continue to give us your thoughts in the forum. Thank you for your support! 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Beta Version Update 1 - 16th March 2017]

Dear Valiants, 

Thank you for all your feedback thus far regarding the beta version of the new Guild Raid system.  

Based on community suggestions and internal testing, we have now revised the difficulty of first 2 raid bosses on 16th March 2017.

We are also currently working on some upcoming improvements: 

- Guild quest revamp, with new quests related to Guild Raid 

- Guild members to be rewarded for achieving certain milestones even if the raid boss is not defeated 

More rewarding changes are being planned, so stay tuned!

In the meantime, each and every feedback is valuable, so please continue to give us your thoughts in the forum. Thank you for your support! 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Original Post

Guild Raid developer blog: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3394

Please provide BOTH criticism AND suggestions, instead of just complaints. Examples from other games (mobile, PC, web, etc) can also be mentioned.

Together, let us improve the Guild Raid feature!
 
User avatar
exi
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:00 pm

Re: [OPEN] Feedback about beta version of Guild Raid

Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:06 pm

I'm looking at this treasure tab and it seems that rewards are divided in tier which basically mean you're in direct competition with your own guild member. 

I think this is quite bad because:

_Basically this is a punishment to people who are not able to get top 6. You try your best but other is just better. You know this so you know no matter how much you try, you still can't beat the top players in your guild for reward. In long term, the weaker players in your guild will have less incentives to try.

_Members should be helping each other instead of competing. You will now have less incentive to share your strategy to your guildmate because you want to keep your score higher and this is bad.

Concern:

_If free rider is a concern, then it's up to the guild to discipline the free-rider. Damage log is available so guild can judge who isn't putting in effort and can discipline themselves. It shouldn't be up to the system to punish people for scoring low or not trying.

Suggestion:
_A uniform reward like castle rush in seven knights where if guild past a threshold, all the members will get rewards. If you want, you can add the current reward as a bonus to reward high scorer. 
 
User avatar
rylou13
Official Member
Official Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:22 am

Re: [OPEN] Feedback about beta version of Guild Raid

Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:25 pm

"I'm looking at this treasure tab and it seems that rewards are divided in tier which basically mean you're in direct competition with your own guild member. 

I think this is quite bad because:

_Basically this is a punishment to people who are not able to get top 6. You try your best but other is just better. You know this so you know no matter how much you try, you still can't beat the top players in your guild for reward. In long term, the weaker players in your guild will have less incentives to try.

_Members should be helping each other instead of competing. You will now have less incentive to share your strategy to your guildmate because you want to keep your score higher and this is bad."
My thoughts, exactly.. how I wish the rewards are the same for all the guild members since it is a guild effort.. 
 
User avatar
davidkim
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: [OPEN] Feedback about beta version of Guild Raid

Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:49 pm

Based on my experience in gaming. Esp for raid, if the person is not contributing, or not high enough, he or she will be kick out of the raid. It is very true in real time gaming.

But for valiant force, it is an idea to try this method, and yes, if the person is very strong, he or she might not share his strag, but then, is he right??

I think thats when the guild leader come in and say something, and communication become important then.

Going to try the raid later and feedback if i have pointers also.
 
Pat437
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:25 pm

Re: [OPEN] Feedback about beta version of Guild Raid

Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:34 pm

I'm looking at this treasure tab and it seems that rewards are divided in tier which basically mean you're in direct competition with your own guild member. 

I think this is quite bad because:

_Basically this is a punishment to people who are not able to get top 6. You try your best but other is just better. You know this so you know no matter how much you try, you still can't beat the top players in your guild for reward. In long term, the weaker players in your guild will have less incentives to try.

_Members should be helping each other instead of competing. You will now have less incentive to share your strategy to your guildmate because you want to keep your score higher and this is bad.

Concern:

_If free rider is a concern, then it's up to the guild to discipline the free-rider. Damage log is available so guild can judge who isn't putting in effort and can discipline themselves. It shouldn't be up to the system to punish people for scoring low or not trying.

Suggestion:
_A uniform reward like castle rush in seven knights where if guild past a threshold, all the members will get rewards. If you want, you can add the current reward as a bonus to reward high scorer. 
I agree mostly with this. A ladder within our own guild doesn't promote guild/team spirit. It makes us compete against one another in the guild and could potentially de-harmonise a guild. Why would the top people share their strategy when they risk losing out if they do so.

This isn't the same as an event ladder as:
1) the number of people competing is incredibly small and knowing a better strategy will probably make or break a person making the top few spots.
-- an event ladder isn't the same because the number of people competing are much larger and even if you know the strategy you might not cut it due to many other factors like time, money spent etc which brings us to the next point;

2) Every day there is a fix amount of tries for each person, and there's no way (yet) to increase that, making each try valuable in itself. Hence it would not be in someone's best interests to share his strategy in the view of that.
-- however, "selling" raid orbs/keys will not be a solution as well as it will further increase competition between guildies. (Please please please do not sell raid keys in shop or anywhere)

In other games like WOW, there are damage meters yes, and under-performing players are often told to buck up or eventually replaced if they continue not performing. But nevertheless, everyone present will be awarded the SAME amount of DKP no matter how well they do as it is recognised that it is a guild/team effort to down a boss. While I understand it's hard to replicate that kind of system in a mobile game, I hope a better system than the current ladder system can be found.

(Imagine rewarding people more DKP for doing more dps, who would want to tank/heal? Imagine people standing in fire just to max dps, making the job of the healers harder and if they survive and top the damage meters they are rewarded more DKP... How fair is that?)

PS. Those freaking snakes need to have at least a 2 turn CD on their bloody skills....
 
User avatar
davidkim
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: [OPEN] Feedback about beta version of Guild Raid

Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:35 pm

Finally got the chance to try it and ok. I have to take back my words as it does give me the feeling that I need to compete with my guildmate, which is not nice, and further more, we still lack the communicate.
In my opinion, to promote communication, we should remove the tier system and use a health reduction system.
The more the boss is damaged, the higher the tier reward is, so it help teammate to share their highest damage team to bring down the boss, (if boss is killed, top tier) so the problem is how to reward each team mate that contribute?
The total damage distribution will only be revealed after each week event ends and the history will show all the biggest damage makers and the rewards will then be distributed based on the remaining health the boss have, and the ranking of damages done. So everyone win win, but min damage must be more than 0 in order to gain at least the lowest tier, maybe 1 token.
So in short, hide the damage meter, and rank the health meter(like achievement percentage) and award accordingly to 2 of them
 
User avatar
uratex16
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 212
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:39 am

Re: [OPEN] Feedback about beta version of Guild Raid

Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:21 pm

First of all devs, thanks for thhis guild raid content.

Secondly, I am one with most people here. A ladder within the guild most certainly gives a feeling of competition instead of promoting cooperation between guildmates.

Random suggestions:
- Give a fixed reward when a certain damage is reached. Like everyone gets the same reward if they reached 5% damage, so on and so forth.
- Additional rewards for everyone if by the end of the week, boss drops at a certain HP%.
 
User avatar
airkon
Official Member
Official Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:44 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: [OPEN] Feedback about beta version of Guild Raid

Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:15 am

Finally got the chance to try it and ok. I have to take back my words as it does give me the feeling that I need to compete with my guildmate, which is not nice, and further more, we still lack the communicate.
In my opinion, to promote communication, we should remove the tier system and use a health reduction system.
The more the boss is damaged, the higher the tier reward is, so it help teammate to share their highest damage team to bring down the boss, (if boss is killed, top tier) so the problem is how to reward each team mate that contribute?
The total damage distribution will only be revealed after each week event ends and the history will show all the biggest damage makers and the rewards will then be distributed based on the remaining health the boss have, and the ranking of damages done. So everyone win win, but min damage must be more than 0 in order to gain at least the lowest tier, maybe 1 token.
So in short, hide the damage meter, and rank the health meter(like achievement percentage) and award accordingly to 2 of them
+1. The new raid should force guilds to work together, not against each other.
 
User avatar
ghostautonomy
Official Member
Official Member
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:42 pm
Location: Manila
Contact:

Re: [OPEN] Feedback about beta version of Guild Raid

Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:36 pm

I LOVE THE ADDITION OF GUILD RAIDS.
OH MY GOD <3
 
Pat437
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:25 pm

Re: [OPEN] Feedback about beta version of Guild Raid

Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:15 pm

 
People in other games' raids work together to try to come up with strategies to down a boss; a ladder for raid seems very counter-intuitive.
 
Perhaps the reward system could take into account BOTH the TOTAL number of tries as well as the TOTAL amount of damage done and the rewards are broken down into a few tiers.
 
Rewards in each tier increases as the amount of life left on the boss decreases.
 
For example (Feel free to adjust actual token amounts/type accordingly to boss etc):
If boss is left with 50% health by the time the dungeon resets:
Tier 1a rewards: 2 Raid Armor tokens, 2 Random Raid Token Ticket, 100K Gold
Tier 2a rewards: 2 Raid Armor tokens, 1 Random Raid Token Ticket, 50K Gold
Tier 3a rewards: 1 Raid Armor tokens, 1 Random Raid Token Ticket, 25K Gold
Tier 4a rewards: 1 Raid Armor token
 
If the boss is left with 20% health by the time the dungeon resets:
Tier 1b rewards: 3 Raid Armor tokens, 2 Random Raid Token Ticket, 250K Gold
Tier 2b rewards: 2 Raid Armor tokens, 2 Random Raid Token Ticket, 100K Gold
Tier 3b rewards: 2 Raid Armor token, 1 Random Raid Token Ticket, 50K Gold
Tier 4b rewards: 1 Raid Armor token
 
If the boss is dead,
Tier 1c rewards: 3 Raid Armor tokens, 3 Random Raid Token Ticket, 500K Gold
Tier 2c rewards: 3 Raid Armor tokens, 2 Random Raid Token Ticket, 250K Gold
Tier 3c rewards: 2 Raid Armor token, 1 Random Raid Token Ticket, 100K Gold
Tier 4c rewards: 1 Raid Armor token
 
How it could work:
First and foremost:
If a boss is dead -
As long as a raider has at least one try on the boss and also killed off at least 2.85% of boss total HP: Reward Tier 1c (boss is dead, hooray! And I have also done my part in the killing)
As long as a raider has at least one try on the boss and killed off between 1.42% and 2.85% of total boss HP: Rewards Tier 2c (boss is dead, hooray! I have tried my best but the important thing is the boss is dead!)
As long as a raider has at least one try on the boss and killed off between 1% and 1.42% of total boss HP: Rewards Tier 3c (yay, boss is dead but I can do better)
As long as a raider has at least one try on the boss but didn't manage to kill off at least 1% of total boss HP: Rewards Tier 4c (ok I got to stop leeching to earn anything OR I need to train/gear up before trying to Raid more effectively, thus helping the guild and earning better rewards but meanwhile I'll take the free token as a bonus, thanks!)
 
 
Next, going onto uncleared bosses (tries on bosses)
 
Maximum number of keys/possible tries in a given week = 21
If a raider attended at least 85% of the raid, i.e. he used a minimum of 18 keys throughout the week:
 
He will be entitled to these rewards if: (I've done my part but we weren't good enough, perhaps I should encourage my other guildmates and help them help us down the boss so we can advance)
The boss is between 20% and 50% health and he has done at least 2.85% of the total damage done on the boss: Reward Tier 1a
 
If the boss is not dead but under 20% health and he has done at least 2.85% of the total damage done on the boss: Reward Tier 1b
 
 
If a raider attended at least 50% of the raid, i.e. he used a minimum of 11 keys throughout the week:
 
He will be entitled to these rewards if: (perhaps if I could do more tries on the boss, we may have down it.)
The boss is between 20% and 50% health and he has done at least 2.85% of the total damage done on the boss: Reward Tier 2a
 
If the boss is not dead but under 20% health and he has done at least 2.85% of the total damage done on the boss: Reward Tier 2b
 
 
If a raider attended at least 85% of the raid, i.e. he used a minimum of 18 keys throughout the week: (I need to improve my squad/strategy to be more effective, maybe I can ask my better guildmates how)
 
He will be entitled to these rewards if:
The boss is between 20% and 50% health and he has done between 1% and 2.85% of the total damage done on the boss: Reward Tier 3a
 
If the boss is not dead but under 20% health and he has done between 1% and 2.85% of the total damage done on the boss: Reward Tier 3b
 
 
If a raider used at least 1 key throughout the week but did not do at least 1% of the total damage done on the boss: (I need to stop slacking/leeching if I want any better rewards OR I am just not ready for raid and I accept that fact)
 
He will be entitled to these rewards if:
The boss is between 20% and 50% health: Reward Tier 4a
 
If the boss is not dead but under 20% health: Reward Tier 4b
 
 
Reasoning/Logic/FAQ behind the above reward system.
1)     No limits on Tier 1 rewards means no competition between guild members, as long as you have done your part you will get rewarded accordingly. Guildmates are more likely to help one another if they are not about to get the shorter end of the stick due to their kindness.
2)     Why 2.85%? In a guild of 35, each member need to do 2.85% damage to pull their own weight.
3)     Why are people who attempted less tries but still managed to do 2.85% damage rewarded lesser? Because it seriously does not take very long to use 3 raid keys every day and if you could do that amount of damage in lesser tries, your guild would have benefited if you actually participated more. i.e. you pulled down your guild’s advancement. (Attendance is always important in raids in every other game out there.)
4)     Tier 4 rewards are to prevent leechers. Also, people who are not ready for raid shouldn’t be rewarded for doing almost nothing. In most games, raids are the endgame content and newbies shouldn’t expect to jump into it day 1 and be greatly rewarded. Take it as a bonus if you like. Of course, if the developers are feeling generous, they could always increase the rewards in this tier as well as the other tiers appropriately.
 
Disclaimer: Please do not think I’m suggesting this to benefit myself. On the contrary, I’m not that hardcore and probably doesn’t do enough damage to fit into tier 1 or 2 anyway. I’ll probably earn more with the current system, but in my opinion, a ladder reward system will never work to encourage teamwork in a guild setting.
 
P.S again. Those summoned snakes need to get their skills nerfed from 1-turn CD Stun to 2-turn CD!
Last edited by Pat437 on Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 16