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rylou13
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Re: Talent Tree Feedback and Suggestions

Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:20 pm

@milo

How does Skill Overdrive really works? 

the description says " Increases max active level skill by 3/6/10", so does it mean that the maximum level of active skill would be 33/36/40? 
Hi rylou13! That's correct! The maximum amount will go up as you stated!
oh I see, only the effect can grow per level will increase. thank you =)
 
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Nekonase
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Re: Talent Tree Feedback and Suggestions

Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:16 pm

It would be nice if trained unit can give more exp, e.g. a +2 fully trained unit gives 7 tp while a max limit break unit gives 27tp to itself. After all, a raw 5* needs 60 three star fodders to get to +2 fully trained.

Btw, are there any benefits/compensation for those who upgrade during beta? I'm afraid that after I spammed my fodder, the system might get change and I lost tp that I could have get if I didn't spammed. There are too huge risk involved.
Hi there! There will be a small token of appreciation for all players.
The developers are mainly keen to adjust the skills for the talents to make it more fun for everyone. 
Stats will generally not be affected too much (Example, if there are increases or decreases, it probably should be like 125->100 for mag or 200-250 for hp rather than a gigantic cut.)
No promises though! 
Hmm, I think I will wait for the actual implementation then.
 
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Ferico
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Re: Talent Tree Feedback and Suggestions

Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:58 am

Hey, MiloD!

What do you think of the idea that with every limit break it grants a hero at least 2 TP? This way, it will address the increasing gap of P2P to Dolphins/F2P. Since most will prioritize max limit breaking their heroes to 40 then going to max talent tree, it would be a good incentive to those who limit break first. P2P has lots of duplicate heroes that are readily available to be used as Talent points and on the other hand, Dolphins/F2P hardly have duplicate heroes to limit break their core heroes.

In summary:
By the hero reaches level 40 (Max Limit Break), he/she will have at least 11 Talent Points (1 free from reaching training +2 100%)
Then duplicate heroes can be used as fodders for talent points:
3 star = 1 TP
4 star = 2 TPs
5 star = 3 TPs

With this system, players will only need to have 6-7x of 5 star heroes to fully reach the Max talent tree which will still require lots of time/lucky gacha. The current system is geared towards P2P and might not attract new players. 
 
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ashenwind
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Re: Talent Tree Feedback and Suggestions

Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:47 am

Hey, MiloD!

What do you think of the idea that with every limit break it grants a hero at least 2 TP? This way, it will address the increasing gap of P2P to Dolphins/F2P. Since most will prioritize max limit breaking their heroes to 40 then going to max talent tree, it would be a good incentive to those who limit break first. P2P has lots of duplicate heroes that are readily available to be used as Talent points and on the other hand, Dolphins/F2P hardly have duplicate heroes to limit break their core heroes.

In summary:
By the hero reaches level 40 (Max Limit Break), he/she will have at least 11 Talent Points (1 free from reaching training +2 100%)
Then duplicate heroes can be used as fodders for talent points:
3 star = 1 TP
4 star = 2 TPs
5 star = 3 TPs

With this system, players will only need to have 6-7x of 5 star heroes to fully reach the Max talent tree which will still require lots of time/lucky gacha. The current system is geared towards P2P and might not attract new players. 
quite a good idea to have limit breaking a hero also gives 2 talent points.
But as I have pointed out in my previous post here, some heroes simply benefits more in using their copies for talent tree more than limit breaking. But nonetheless it's a good idea to make limit breaking more worthwhile. Though it doesn't change the fact that high roller will benefits more from this, but Valiants hero might have some use for it, since they can't use same unit bonus like all other regular heroes.

As for extra TP given when we use same named hero, I believe it's already there. Quoting MiloD's opening post:
What’s up everyone! Let’s talk Talent Tree!
 
First of all, a quick introduction to using the Talent tree! You are able to fuse 3*, 4* and 5* units into your Hero to help them gain Talent Points. Using units with the same name will grant bonus talent fusion %!
 
100% from 3*, 200% from 4* and 300% from 5*!
 
(And no, don’t try Mecha Drake with Drake)
 
Though he made a mistake here saying 5* of same hero will give 300% talent bar. It's actually 400% now. I know because I tested it out myself using a warlord Sven to raise my Berserker Sven's talent tree.

In contrast, using 5^ of different name will only give us 100% talent bar.
 
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whodahackii
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Re: Talent Tree Feedback and Suggestions

Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:28 am

I might be evil.

I did a comparison between the number difference of MLB & Talent Tree growth for Ares Sven Berserker.

Subject: One Base Unit, and Five Limit Break/Talent Fodder

MLB Path : The difference between a lv30+2 100% Sven and a lv40+2 100% has a difference of 3800 TOTAL stat (including 1136 Attack Growth)

Talent Path : 5 Fodder = 20 Talent Points, which translate to 16 attack node (mixed and non-mixed, Total stat is 2650 stat (including 2300 atk) and extra 4 nodes to the three attack variant skill.

-------------------------borderline-------------------------------
I don't want to bash specifically anyone, but I do hope Limit Break is still MAIN and PRIORITY ways of strengthening hero rather than Talent Point (shortcut to maximize any ONE stat, such as Champion/Ranger/Shadow sacrifice total stat to Pure Attack Stat, Guardian to Pure Def/HP stat, Mytsic and/or Healer to go full Defensive or Magic)

Suggestion :
1) Lower Stat growth in Talent Tree AND increase overall 3* and 4* Fusion Bonus to at least : 3* = 10% , 4* = 25% ; Dup. 3* = 150%, Dup. 4* = 250%
2) Or 'limits' Heroes with at least +3 limit breaks to use Talent (but still lower the overall stat growth)
3) Or 'limits' Heroes with Max Limit Breaks to use Talent (but still lower the overall stat growth in Talent Tree, and not adjusting the Fusion Rate)

What will happen to currently Talented heroes and their fodders? (also a suggestion)
1) Hard Reset to EVERY SINGLE HERO, but refund all the points to them, such as Kai 20TP with 2 skills, reset it, but Kai still have 20TP, and may only use them 'IF' the MLB Limitation is there~ otherwise, a MLB HERO can still use the TP right a way.
2) If the 'Limit Breaks Limitation' is not there in latest patch, then, well, just reset it for everyone, incase there is a Skill rework or Overall Stat adjustment. (and still refund all heroes' TP)

**Disclaimer, if anyone want to come bashing at me, feel free to, but all I did was suggesting and sharing what I've seen...Thank You
**Current Talent Point Experience: Sven Berserker, Kai Ninja, Drake Dragoon, Cybella Gunslinger, Kane Grand Ranger, Vincent Berserker (Around 60 TP in total)
 
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MiloDinosaur
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Re: Talent Tree Feedback and Suggestions

Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:37 am

Hey, MiloD!

What do you think of the idea that with every limit break it grants a hero at least 2 TP? This way, it will address the increasing gap of P2P to Dolphins/F2P. Since most will prioritize max limit breaking their heroes to 40 then going to max talent tree, it would be a good incentive to those who limit break first. P2P has lots of duplicate heroes that are readily available to be used as Talent points and on the other hand, Dolphins/F2P hardly have duplicate heroes to limit break their core heroes.

In summary:
By the hero reaches level 40 (Max Limit Break), he/she will have at least 11 Talent Points (1 free from reaching training +2 100%)
Then duplicate heroes can be used as fodders for talent points:
3 star = 1 TP
4 star = 2 TPs
5 star = 3 TPs

With this system, players will only need to have 6-7x of 5 star heroes to fully reach the Max talent tree which will still require lots of time/lucky gacha. The current system is geared towards P2P and might not attract new players. 
quite a good idea to have limit breaking a hero also gives 2 talent points.
But as I have pointed out in my previous post here, some heroes simply benefits more in using their copies for talent tree more than limit breaking. But nonetheless it's a good idea to make limit breaking more worthwhile. Though it doesn't change the fact that high roller will benefits more from this, but Valiants hero might have some use for it, since they can't use same unit bonus like all other regular heroes.

As for extra TP given when we use same named hero, I believe it's already there. Quoting MiloD's opening post:
What’s up everyone! Let’s talk Talent Tree!
 
First of all, a quick introduction to using the Talent tree! You are able to fuse 3*, 4* and 5* units into your Hero to help them gain Talent Points. Using units with the same name will grant bonus talent fusion %!
 
100% from 3*, 200% from 4* and 300% from 5*!
 
(And no, don’t try Mecha Drake with Drake)
 
Though he made a mistake here saying 5* of same hero will give 300% talent bar. It's actually 400% now. I know because I tested it out myself using a warlord Sven to raise my Berserker Sven's talent tree.

In contrast, using 5^ of different name will only give us 100% talent bar.
There's NUUU mistake!
All 5* will give you 1 Talent point which is 100%. The same copy gives you 300%! So 300% + 100% = 400% --> 4 Talent Points ;) I mentioned bonus talent fusion mwahha 
 
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MiloDinosaur
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Re: Talent Tree Feedback and Suggestions

Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:40 am

I might be evil.

I did a comparison between the number difference of MLB & Talent Tree growth for Ares Sven Berserker.

Subject: One Base Unit, and Five Limit Break/Talent Fodder

MLB Path : The difference between a lv30+2 100% Sven and a lv40+2 100% has a difference of 3800 TOTAL stat (including 1136 Attack Growth)

Talent Path : 5 Fodder = 20 Talent Points, which translate to 16 attack node (mixed and non-mixed, Total stat is 2650 stat (including 2300 atk) and extra 4 nodes to the three attack variant skill.

-------------------------borderline-------------------------------
I don't want to bash specifically anyone, but I do hope Limit Break is still MAIN and PRIORITY ways of strengthening hero rather than Talent Point (shortcut to maximize any ONE stat, such as Champion/Ranger/Shadow sacrifice total stat to Pure Attack Stat, Guardian to Pure Def/HP stat, Mytsic and/or Healer to go full Defensive or Magic)

Suggestion :
1) Lower Stat growth in Talent Tree AND increase overall 3* and 4* Fusion Bonus to at least : 3* = 10% , 4* = 25% ; Dup. 3* = 150%, Dup. 4* = 250%
2) Or 'limits' Heroes with at least +3 limit breaks to use Talent (but still lower the overall stat growth)
3) Or 'limits' Heroes with Max Limit Breaks to use Talent (but still lower the overall stat growth in Talent Tree, and not adjusting the Fusion Rate)

What will happen to currently Talented heroes and their fodders? (also a suggestion)
1) Hard Reset to EVERY SINGLE HERO, but refund all the points to them, such as Kai 20TP with 2 skills, reset it, but Kai still have 20TP, and may only use them 'IF' the MLB Limitation is there~ otherwise, a MLB HERO can still use the TP right a way.
2) If the 'Limit Breaks Limitation' is not there in latest patch, then, well, just reset it for everyone, incase there is a Skill rework or Overall Stat adjustment. (and still refund all heroes' TP)

**Disclaimer, if anyone want to come bashing at me, feel free to, but all I did was suggesting and sharing what I've seen...Thank You
**Current Talent Point Experience: Sven Berserker, Kai Ninja, Drake Dragoon, Cybella Gunslinger, Kane Grand Ranger, Vincent Berserker (Around 60 TP in total)
I won't let anyone bash you for sharing an honest open opinion. Our forum is more civilized than that!
 
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whodahackii
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Re: Talent Tree Feedback and Suggestions

Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:42 am

Hey, MiloD!

What do you think of the idea that with every limit break it grants a hero at least 2 TP? This way, it will address the increasing gap of P2P to Dolphins/F2P. Since most will prioritize max limit breaking their heroes to 40 then going to max talent tree, it would be a good incentive to those who limit break first. P2P has lots of duplicate heroes that are readily available to be used as Talent points and on the other hand, Dolphins/F2P hardly have duplicate heroes to limit break their core heroes.

In summary:
By the hero reaches level 40 (Max Limit Break), he/she will have at least 11 Talent Points (1 free from reaching training +2 100%)
Then duplicate heroes can be used as fodders for talent points:
3 star = 1 TP
4 star = 2 TPs
5 star = 3 TPs

With this system, players will only need to have 6-7x of 5 star heroes to fully reach the Max talent tree which will still require lots of time/lucky gacha. The current system is geared towards P2P and might not attract new players. 
quite a good idea to have limit breaking a hero also gives 2 talent points.
But as I have pointed out in my previous post here, some heroes simply benefits more in using their copies for talent tree more than limit breaking. But nonetheless it's a good idea to make limit breaking more worthwhile. Though it doesn't change the fact that high roller will benefits more from this, but Valiants hero might have some use for it, since they can't use same unit bonus like all other regular heroes.

As for extra TP given when we use same named hero, I believe it's already there. Quoting MiloD's opening post:
What’s up everyone! Let’s talk Talent Tree!
 
First of all, a quick introduction to using the Talent tree! You are able to fuse 3*, 4* and 5* units into your Hero to help them gain Talent Points. Using units with the same name will grant bonus talent fusion %!
 
100% from 3*, 200% from 4* and 300% from 5*!
 
(And no, don’t try Mecha Drake with Drake)
 
Though he made a mistake here saying 5* of same hero will give 300% talent bar. It's actually 400% now. I know because I tested it out myself using a warlord Sven to raise my Berserker Sven's talent tree.

In contrast, using 5^ of different name will only give us 100% talent bar.
There's NUUU mistake!
All 5* will give you 1 Talent point which is 100%. The same copy gives you 300%! So 300% + 100% = 400% --> 4 Talent Points ;) I mentioned bonus talent fusion mwahha 
To clear things up: (all numbers are in Final Count)
Non-duplicated Heroes -
3* 5%
4* 15%
5* 100%
Duplicated Heroes -
3* 105%
4* 215%
5* 400%
 
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ashenwind
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Re: Talent Tree Feedback and Suggestions

Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:31 pm

I might be evil.

I did a comparison between the number difference of MLB & Talent Tree growth for Ares Sven Berserker.

Subject: One Base Unit, and Five Limit Break/Talent Fodder

MLB Path : The difference between a lv30+2 100% Sven and a lv40+2 100% has a difference of 3800 TOTAL stat (including 1136 Attack Growth)

Talent Path : 5 Fodder = 20 Talent Points, which translate to 16 attack node (mixed and non-mixed, Total stat is 2650 stat (including 2300 atk) and extra 4 nodes to the three attack variant skill.

-------------------------borderline-------------------------------
I don't want to bash specifically anyone, but I do hope Limit Break is still MAIN and PRIORITY ways of strengthening hero rather than Talent Point (shortcut to maximize any ONE stat, such as Champion/Ranger/Shadow sacrifice total stat to Pure Attack Stat, Guardian to Pure Def/HP stat, Mytsic and/or Healer to go full Defensive or Magic)

Suggestion :
1) Lower Stat growth in Talent Tree AND increase overall 3* and 4* Fusion Bonus to at least : 3* = 10% , 4* = 25% ; Dup. 3* = 150%, Dup. 4* = 250%
2) Or 'limits' Heroes with at least +3 limit breaks to use Talent (but still lower the overall stat growth)
3) Or 'limits' Heroes with Max Limit Breaks to use Talent (but still lower the overall stat growth in Talent Tree, and not adjusting the Fusion Rate)

What will happen to currently Talented heroes and their fodders? (also a suggestion)
1) Hard Reset to EVERY SINGLE HERO, but refund all the points to them, such as Kai 20TP with 2 skills, reset it, but Kai still have 20TP, and may only use them 'IF' the MLB Limitation is there~ otherwise, a MLB HERO can still use the TP right a way.
2) If the 'Limit Breaks Limitation' is not there in latest patch, then, well, just reset it for everyone, incase there is a Skill rework or Overall Stat adjustment. (and still refund all heroes' TP)

**Disclaimer, if anyone want to come bashing at me, feel free to, but all I did was suggesting and sharing what I've seen...Thank You
**Current Talent Point Experience: Sven Berserker, Kai Ninja, Drake Dragoon, Cybella Gunslinger, Kane Grand Ranger, Vincent Berserker (Around 60 TP in total)
 I made similar post concerning this same dillemma, but it was drowned by other posts because it's on the first page :lol:
In my opinion, it's already fine the way it is. The time when it's finally usable I mean.

Having a tab on your hero window remain locked for who know how long (like how conquest has been in guild menus) may just serve to annoy some people. Afterall, for some people, MLBing a hero is like trying to reach the horizon  ;) (RNG and available resource to be blamed :lol:)

The way it is now, it gives some form of freedom to players, whether he/she wants overall growth or simply wants specific stat to rise. LBing can be used when there is no more talent point to apply (since overall cost for LB is higher than talent, especially if player uses copy of same named hero), or vice versa since both improve hero stats anyway. In my opinion, the ability to customize a hero the way we want has always been the plus and the attractive part of this feature (even for newer players). Why limit it to be available only for those who have reached the very top?

Just that the cost is a bit less universal to be used by newer player without certain planning and determination.

But it's just how I see it though.. :D
 
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ashenwind
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Re: Talent Tree Feedback and Suggestions

Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:45 pm

I have one little suggestion to make.

This is mainly to address the ongoing problem of mystics generally being useless on pve content.

What if we change Fortification talent skill of mystic to haste their skill cd instead of healing? Something like:
lvl 1: reduce incoming damage by 3% and reduce skill cooldown of this hero by 1 turn when defending
lvl 2: reduce incoming damage by 6% and reduce skill cooldown of this hero by 1 turn when defending
lvl 3: reduce incoming damage by 9% and reduce skill cooldown of this hero by 2 turns when defending

Also Desperation talent skill to be something like:
lvl 1: reduce skill cooldown of this hero by 2 turns when hp falls below 30% (once per wave)
lvl 2: reduce skill cooldown of this hero by 3 turns when hp falls below 30% (once per wave)
lvl 3: reduce skill cooldown of this hero by 4 turns when hp falls below 30% (once per wave)

What do you guys think about this suggestion? I don't think this suggested version of Fortification talent will make mystics become imbalanced on arena (in fact, kinda useless in arena because defending takes their turn), and Desperation will only benefits the mystic IF he/she survives to cast the skill (this one might have some use in arena and may add some more strategic value)