Valiant Force Forum

@Jaeger & Ferico, they should consider making Mystic/healer skills irresistible by PVE enemies (maybe still resistable in raid?).

@Zayler
I think the problem lies that most of the current squad formations rely on the deadly tirgger chances of archers in combination with the melee prowess of champions/shadows. Not to mention you can deal a lot of damages in 1 turn! But with the set-up I am suggesting, this opens to ideas of having a defensive-style formation where guardians/healers/mages can be a good PvE squad option

Yup, I agree with the game being too focused on "kill or be killed' at turn 1 and that burst damage is the only way to go. My suggestion would be for making mystics play a different role with quick CC / debuffs / disruptions and creating PVE scenarios where player strategy is required for certain trials. Of course there's the issue of enemies resisting everything but making everything about damage is just making this game so stale and one dimensional with no strategy at all. The Devs really need to think hard on this if they want VF to survive.

These suggestions are great, for Zedd and Kiera.

But you conveniently ignored the fact that the new mystics are good, usable and effective in arena. (Ronan has no issues btw, he's still a monster in arena when players set him up nicely to protect him smartly)

If they implement these ideas, what happens to the other mystics you mentioned? Suddenly Kiera gets a 2 turn cd while Talissa is stuck on 4. Then let's make Talissa 2 turn as well? This kind of balancing only leads to more repercussions. It's no wonder no action isn't taken yet. One move leads to another and leads to more trouble.

If anything, this thread should be #makegenesismysticsgreatagain

Of course they will have to take those in consideration. Summoners in general are slightly different like how summoner champions have shorter CD than other Champions. Talissa's 4T cd might be reduced to 3T or kept at 4T and she would still be on par with the other mystics even if they are buffed.

For cases like Ronan, his skill CD could be reduced from 6T to 4T with the number of missiles reduced so overall total damage per turn is balanced. This would mean you can knockback/delay skill more often making him more viable outside of PVP.

And obviously those mystics that are already good with low CD (eg. Zoey) would probably be left untouched (like what Ferico already mentioned above) or perhaps with minor tweaks. Based on my understanding from Ferico's main #MakeMysticsGreatAgain post is that most mystics are taking too long to come online.

These suggestions are great, for Zedd and Kiera.

But you conveniently ignored the fact that the new mystics are good, usable and effective in arena. (Ronan has no issues btw, he's still a monster in arena when players set him up nicely to protect him smartly)

If they implement these ideas, what happens to the other mystics you mentioned? Suddenly Kiera gets a 2 turn cd while Talissa is stuck on 4. Then let's make Talissa 2 turn as well? This kind of balancing only leads to more repercussions. It's no wonder no action isn't taken yet. One move leads to another and leads to more trouble.

If anything, this thread should be #makegenesismysticsgreatagain

If you HAVE READ my previous post, you would see that I mentioned That talissa's 4 turn is ALRIGHT and justified since she is a summoner and has otherwise good mechanics (poison aoe!) And taegen is good because of the 3 turns mechanic so I dont see why you are sort of accusing me that I didnt acknowldge them. So no, I DIDNT CONVENIENTLY IGNORED THEM. #ReadTheThreadBeforeAccusing


But yeah, im leaning towards the change for kiera, zedd, ellis, and ronan. Im kind of worried still with ronan though. the 6 cd cool down is still high and usually do not survive before he can cast his skill (I have level 40 ronan, max tp, but damn, I can only count few times when I have used his skill. My role for him right now is the bait for archers and it's lucky if he survived that deadly 1st-5th turn.

Are the admins and devs still taking heed of this topic? -.-
So I was so excited on Taegan, 3 cd yessssss. But got so disappointed when I tried him on PVP. Managed to reach 12k Mag on arena but 1. He still dies on archers so fast, 2. He deals funny damage on guardians at my current arena bracket.

Mystic teams sux very much in PVP well unless you got Zoey and a grand MLB and talent spree on ur mystics they just might fall into oblivion into the following cases:
A. die easily on archers on turn 1
B. they manage to reach cd on guardian teams but only pops resilience
C. Manage to reach cd but faye/arthur's shield is already up
D. Manage to cast successfully but only deals 2k to 5k dmg on 20k hp guardians (lets face it even a 8k def guardian can tank a 12k MAG mystic, such imbalance!)

So I propose the following cures to the near extinction of Mystics:
1. Guardians' Mag DEf should only be based on their MAG stat. So that players can separate raising a Magic Defender and a Physical Defender.
2. Limit resistance counters in PVP to only 1 layer. Rune/Eqp Set/ Talent won't stack. More than 1 stack of resilience is just too broken on PVP, esp tanks.
3. More utility on Mystics MAG stat. Hp shield on spawn based on MAG stat perhaps? Or it could be different for each mage. Some would be:
a.) Reactive Mana shield - return damage to attacker,
b.) Concussive Mana Shield - high chance to deflect projectiles,
c.) Blur - evade chance,
d.) Timewalk - when receiving damage, avoid damage and go back in time and add 1 turn to CD)
4. Make Mystics' base attack damage as a multiplier of their atk and mag stat (elemental attacks???)
5. 2nd skill with lower cooldown maybe? Like hp shields, self invulnerability, cd redux, amplify damage etc.
6. Include a piercing mystic talent, chance to bypass all sorts of enemy protection. Hp shield, resilience, dodge, and invulnerability too perhaps?
7. Add a status from fire and ice and lightning based skills: Burning - reduces healing effect by half. Frostbite - cannot be healed. Chronosphere - cd wont move unless hero move out of the tile.
8. Ethereal form - for all mages maybe? *works well with miracle* When unit's hp falls to 1 becomes immune to physical attack and gains hp = 100% of MAG but receive 200% damage from magic attacks.

Well thats all I got for now. Some might hurt players who invested so much in resilence but I think its for the sustenance of arena. Its getting tiring to see the same meta over and over again. And hopefully some of those will
#MAKEMYSTICSGREATAGAIN!!!!

@Jaeger & Ferico, they should consider making Mystic/healer skills irresistible by PVE enemies (maybe still resistable in raid?).

The better question is why does it need to resist everything, only stun isn't enough? 
How about only resist few status effect instead of everything ( and make each boss has different kind of resistant to make it more appealing )? 
What about making enemy cannot be stunned again for 1 turn after stun duration end?


There're a lot of room to try here, anything is better than this current poor design choice. It's laughable when you create so many kind of status effects but, none of them work. Not to mention that enemy has stupid on hit effect like 100% to stun (Why???).

Crowd control skill does not belong to mystics alone... Some other classes also have status effects applied into their skills and aura.

Tho I must agree that designing a boss that resist all crowd control skill is a horrible idea. It's a lazy way to improve difficulty.
Resisting knock back, stun and sleep is fine since those status disables almost all action.
But also resisting skill delay and status debuff just does not make sense. What's the point of having a debuffer then? This is also the reason some of classes sucks. E.g paladin with taunt and samurais as Debuffer.

Anyway onto topic, Ellis revamp brought a new hope for mystics since Ellis have low cool down and decent design.

I think the whole old mystic should also have 3-4 turn cool down skills with lowered skill effect.
For example mind warder should have 1 turn skill delay with 3 turn cooldown
Talissa can summon a pet at turn 3 with 50% poison damage and her pet's buff and skill delay increased by 1.
Elementalist has lower damage with 4 turn cooldown.

healers should also have reduced cool down with reduced skill effect.
for example inquisitor Lucille having 4 turn cooldown with only 1 turn invincibility would be nice to have.
While archbishop have 3 turn single target skill with 2 turn invincibility.

Are the admins and devs still taking heed of this topic? -.-
So I was so excited on Taegan, 3 cd yessssss. But got so disappointed when I tried him on PVP. Managed to reach 12k Mag on arena but 1. He still dies on archers so fast, 2. He deals funny damage on guardians at my current arena bracket.

Mystic teams sux very much in PVP well unless you got Zoey and a grand MLB and talent spree on ur mystics they just might fall into oblivion into the following cases:
A. die easily on archers on turn 1
B. they manage to reach cd on guardian teams but only pops resilience
C. Manage to reach cd but faye/arthur's shield is already up
D. Manage to cast successfully but only deals 2k to 5k dmg on 20k hp guardians (lets face it even a 8k def guardian can tank a 12k MAG mystic, such imbalance!)

So I propose the following cures to the near extinction of Mystics:
1. Guardians' Mag DEf should only be based on their MAG stat. So that players can separate raising a Magic Defender and a Physical Defender.
2. Limit resistance counters in PVP to only 1 layer. Rune/Eqp Set/ Talent won't stack. More than 1 stack of resilience is just too broken on PVP, esp tanks.
3. More utility on Mystics MAG stat. Hp shield on spawn based on MAG stat perhaps? Or it could be different for each mage. Some would be:
a.) Reactive Mana shield - return damage to attacker,
b.) Concussive Mana Shield - high chance to deflect projectiles,
c.) Blur - evade chance,
d.) Timewalk - when receiving damage, avoid damage and go back in time and add 1 turn to CD)
4. Make Mystics' base attack damage as a multiplier of their atk and mag stat (elemental attacks???)
5. 2nd skill with lower cooldown maybe? Like hp shields, self invulnerability, cd redux, amplify damage etc.
6. Include a piercing mystic talent, chance to bypass all sorts of enemy protection. Hp shield, resilience, dodge, and invulnerability too perhaps?
7. Add a status from fire and ice and lightning based skills: Burning - reduces healing effect by half. Frostbite - cannot be healed. Chronosphere - cd wont move unless hero move out of the tile.
8. Ethereal form - for all mages maybe? *works well with miracle* When unit's hp falls to 1 becomes immune to physical attack and gains hp = 100% of MAG but receive 200% damage from magic attacks.

Well thats all I got for now. Some might hurt players who invested so much in resilence but I think its for the sustenance of arena. Its getting tiring to see the same meta over and over again. And hopefully some of those will
#MAKEMYSTICSGREATAGAIN!!!!

Maybe the devs are listening after all. Idk, but Merlin WL has 50% hp shield based on MAG. That coinsides with my #3 suggestion. Hmmmm, baby steps but great! Hope to see the old mystics getting back to the game real soon too.

Yea resisting status debuff shouldnt happen, though resisting bad status is ok. For example Shin megami tensei series, bosses may resist stuff like charm or confuse but will never resist def down or attack down, otherwise the game will be too difficult at higher difficulties. 

Yea resisting status debuff shouldnt happen, though resisting bad status is ok. For example Shin megami tensei series, bosses may resist stuff like charm or confuse but will never resist def down or attack down, otherwise the game will be too difficult at higher difficulties. 

YEA! i wasn't really understand why the boss resist stat debuff TOTALLY, very strange. because with stat debuff, those debuffer type hero are very not welcomed, as everyone might as well go for full party buff and roll over the dead bodies.

OK. seems like devs are really listening this time but I aint stopping to #MakeOldMysticsGreatAgain !!

Yea resisting status debuff shouldnt happen, though resisting bad status is ok. For example Shin megami tensei series, bosses may resist stuff like charm or confuse but will never resist def down or attack down, otherwise the game will be too difficult at higher difficulties. 

YEA! i wasn't really understand why the boss resist stat debuff TOTALLY, very strange. because with stat debuff, those debuffer type hero are very not welcomed, as everyone might as well go for full party buff and roll over the dead bodies.

another example of why boss should not resist status debuff. I play Persona 5, and I play last dungeon on hard mode. Boss uses a charging attack. First time i underestimate it's power, without def up, only attack down on boss. Party wiped at almost full health. To survive that I have to attack down AND def up. 
Not to say Master is that hard but some heroes can only take so much hits before dying, and its just wasting energy and time, as well as the usability of those heroes that can debuff. I gladly bring Samurai Shizu to any match because of her awesome aura but she is half useless if her debuff doesnt connect, to help survive the wrath of master enemies.