Valiant Force Forum

Oh... I just had an idea. Dunno what you'll think about it.
I've thought of that kind of skill :

"Lower enemy's atk by 90% for 1 turns. Heals squad for 30% of the value lowered." Or something like that. The idea sounded good to me.

Unless it's a 0CD spell, it's a nerf to Inquisitor and AB while I can't say for SW since that class is horrible. Even if you put it at 3CD, supposing your up against a ranger team, They have 2 turns to pepper at your squad. With how much the actual trigger numbers are, you'd be long crippled if not completely pummeled to the ground.

It was a suggestion, it could have more effects in the spell, like damage reduc, shield, etc. but honestly, that was just a 10s idea that came through my mind. Still, didn't want to lose it.

It was a good attempt, to be honest. Problem as I've said earlier is that most offensive spells are 3-4 and healing/defense spells are usually 5+. Where's the utility in defensive spells if they aren't even ready during the occasions they need to be cast? Inqui Lucille's global immunity should be stupidly good if it's at 3-4 turn CD because it can block offensive spells on time. At 7 CD, which skills do you block? A second wave of Sacred Blaze? Heck, without protection, Kiera Ele could kill your whole team during the 3 turns of damage instances on the first cast.

Even healers need now to be "idiotic trigger teams" to work well. Sorry for those that love this kind of team, I just find it plain stupid. I like strategy... And defensive healers could bring strategy back in arena. 
What about a "20% chance to revive allies in aura when they die" for Lucille ? Wait, I didn't said anything, I'm afraid this could come with a new shitty Dark Lord instead of Lucille...

After reading a number of insights, I think I'll update my suggestions on what to do to Lucille. 

A. Inquisitor
 -4 turn CD
 -100-130% heal 
 -100% immunity for 2 turns
 -party immunity to debuffs for 2 turns
 -increases MAG by 20%
     Aura: 10% MAG
               20% DEF

B. Archbishop
-2 turn CD
-heal 160-220% of MAG
-`100% immunity for 2 turns
-cleanses ALL debuffs from party
 -reduce damage dealt to other allies by 35% for 2 turns
        Aura: Heal for 25% MAG
        reduce damage dealt to allies in aura by 30%

C. Spirit Walker
 -2 turn CD
 -reduce 1CD of all allies
 -weaken by 35% for 3 turns
 -heal for x%
       Aura: When hero and allies in aura are hit: 
                -heal for 35% of MAG
                -reflect 50% of damage taken

D. Witch Doctor
  -3 turn CD
  -weaken enemies by 50% for 2 turns
  -charms enemies to do 120% of their ATK 
  -heals for x% for 3 turns
       Aura: When allies are healed:
                 -poison for 50% of MAG for 2 turns.
                  -charms enemy at 80% of ATK

Even healers need now to be "idiotic trigger teams" to work well. Sorry for those that love this kind of team, I just find it plain stupid. I like strategy... And defensive healers could bring strategy back in arena. 
What about a "20% chance to revive allies in aura when they die" for Lucille ? Wait, I didn't said anything, I'm afraid this could come with a new shitty Dark Lord instead of Lucille...

20% is kinda bad imo. You gotta cross fingers and pray to your gods for it to occur. I don't think aura revive is a nice concept altogether since being too low in chance kinda kills it since it's all or nothing but making the proc chance too high would easily break the aura to OP land.
On a different note, I see healers as rangers with heal, simple as that. Hating healers but accepting rangers is kinda ??? for me since they essentially do the same thing.

I would like to add one more suggestion to Lucille Spirit Walker.  They should decrease CD of skill from 4 to 3.  Her 4 CD skill is practically useless.  Almost every arena meta now has at least CD 5.  Anything ore than that is just not feasible in arena anymore.  So having 4 CD will not help anyone at all.  We all do know, the end result of every arena game is mostly decided in the first round because of the very fast CD of current meta heroes.  Hope this is something the devs will consider if and when they revamp lucille.

I think it should be 2CD, tbh. If you make it 3CD, the only skills it affects are 5+CD spells and most skills from meta heroes are at 4-5. It would be one of those 'good in theory, useless in practice' skills if it is a 3CD. 

As much as I want it to be 2 CD, I doubt devs will even consider it.  3 CD still sounds very reasonable IMO.  Having 2 CD for Lucille SW can be a huge gamechanger, it will be a sure way to counter Zoey MW if you have any MW, Aden, or any char with skill delay.  Because of that, devs will bypass this idea. Because they really don't want to offend their best paying customers.

After reading a number of insights, I think I'll update my suggestions on what to do to Lucille. 

A. Inquisitor
 -4 turn CD
 -100-130% heal 
 -100% immunity for 2 turns
 -party immunity to debuffs for 2 turns
 -increases MAG by 20%
     Aura: 10% MAG
               20% DEF

B. Archbishop
-2 turn CD
-heal 160-220% of MAG
-`100% immunity for 2 turns
-cleanses ALL debuffs from party
 -reduce damage dealt to other allies by 35% for 2 turns
        Aura: Heal for 25% MAG
        reduce damage dealt to allies in aura by 30%

C. Spirit Walker
 -2 turn CD
 -reduce 1CD of all allies
 -weaken by 35% for 3 turns
 -heal for x%
       Aura: When hero and allies in aura are hit: 
                -heal for 35% of MAG
                -reflect 50% of damage taken

D. Witch Doctor
  -3 turn CD
  -weaken enemies by 50% for 2 turns
  -charms enemies to do 120% of their ATK 
  -heals for x% for 3 turns
       Aura: When allies are healed:
                 -poison for 50% of MAG for 2 turns.
                  -charms enemy at 80% of ATK

No.
All of them have one too short cooldown.
Too short cooldown would make tank teams too OP.
Lucille Inquisitor's 15% mag and 15% def aura is fine as it is. She also benefits from mag.

Same with Archbishop, 2 turn 35% damage reduction is better than inquisitor in PvE. Should be 20-25%. Same with aura.

2 turn cooldown for -1 cooldown to all allies is also too powerful. Tanks with shield skills would be unkillable. 3 turn cool down skill with -1 cool down to an ally is better, but heal all allies instead.

3 turn cooldown charm is also too powerful, should be 4 turn cool down, 100% atk is enough as 120% will outright kill ranger teams.
Charm + skill delay for 2 turn is better as it's useful against both physical damage team and skill damage team.
Charm aura is also too powerful, paired with archbishop, she can kill one enemy per turn.
Poison + lure would be better.

After reading a number of insights, I think I'll update my suggestions on what to do to Lucille. 

A. Inquisitor
 -4 turn CD
 -100-130% heal 
 -100% immunity for 2 turns
 -party immunity to debuffs for 2 turns
 -increases MAG by 20%
     Aura: 10% MAG
               20% DEF

B. Archbishop
-2 turn CD
-heal 160-220% of MAG
-`100% immunity for 2 turns
-cleanses ALL debuffs from party
 -reduce damage dealt to other allies by 35% for 2 turns
        Aura: Heal for 25% MAG
        reduce damage dealt to allies in aura by 30%

C. Spirit Walker
 -2 turn CD
 -reduce 1CD of all allies
 -weaken by 35% for 3 turns
 -heal for x%
       Aura: When hero and allies in aura are hit: 
                -heal for 35% of MAG
                -reflect 50% of damage taken

D. Witch Doctor
  -3 turn CD
  -weaken enemies by 50% for 2 turns
  -charms enemies to do 120% of their ATK 
  -heals for x% for 3 turns
       Aura: When allies are healed:
                 -poison for 50% of MAG for 2 turns.
                  -charms enemy at 80% of ATK

No.
All of them have one too short cooldown.
Too short cooldown would make tank teams too OP.
Lucille Inquisitor's 15% mag and 15% def aura is fine as it is. She also benefits from mag.

Same with Archbishop, 2 turn 35% damage reduction is better than inquisitor in PvE. Should be 20-25%. Same with aura.

2 turn cooldown for -1 cooldown to all allies is also too powerful. Tanks with shield skills would be unkillable. 3 turn cool down skill with -1 cool down to an ally is better, but heal all allies instead.

3 turn cooldown charm is also too powerful, should be 4 turn cool down, 100% atk is enough as 120% will outright kill ranger teams.
Charm + skill delay for 2 turn is better as it's useful against both physical damage team and skill damage team.
Charm aura is also too powerful, paired with archbishop, she can kill one enemy per turn.
Poison + lure would be better.

I can accept the Inq AB and WD +1 CD but i really think that SW should get the 2 turn CD. While somebody brought up being able to counter MW Zoey, I think it's nice to have counters to them as it forces the meta to adapt to a new threat. Maybe all allies is too powerful, I also acknowledge that so what about making the cast range a line? That means, a max of 3 units can have the -CD. It can also be designed to not affect Lucille so she doesn't get essentially a 1 turn skill.

About the 120% charm, rangers would kill each other through the charm at 100% anyway so that bonus 20% is somewhat irrelevant to them. Besides, ranger teams are the most consistent squad formations in this game as a whole. I think this game should focus on giving counters to aggressive teams to revitalize the meta. It's been rangers for such a long time now. Is it so bad that we add more headaches to trigger teams to discourage them? By discouraging players from being too aggressive, this should diversify squad formations which would be refreshing to see. Unless they reduce the crit cap or the trigger chance of rangers, I don't think they'll ever die out of the meta. On. A side note, I like your lure idea as it can potentially stop trigger teams from pulverizing your team.

Even healers need now to be "idiotic trigger teams" to work well. Sorry for those that love this kind of team, I just find it plain stupid. I like strategy... And defensive healers could bring strategy back in arena. 
What about a "20% chance to revive allies in aura when they die" for Lucille ? Wait, I didn't said anything, I'm afraid this could come with a new shitty Dark Lord instead of Lucille...

20% is kinda bad imo. You gotta cross fingers and pray to your gods for it to occur. I don't think aura revive is a nice concept altogether since being too low in chance kinda kills it since it's all or nothing but making the proc chance too high would easily break the aura to OP land.
On a different note, I see healers as rangers with heal, simple as that. Hating healers but accepting rangers is kinda ??? for me since they essentially do the same thing.

I also don't like ranger teams. Efficacity over fun. Meh. It's like playing chess with only queens for me.


A. Inquisitor
 - 4 or 5 turns CD ?
 - 140% heal 
 - 100% immunity for 2 turns
 - party immunity to debuffs for 2 turns
 - increases MAG by 20%
     Aura : Sacred Realm
Increase MAG of this hero and allies in aura by 15 % of hero's MAG + increase DEF of this hero and allies in aura by 15 % of hero's MAG.

B. Archbishop
- 3 turns CD
- heals 210% of hero's MAG to two target in a raw (kinda like Cassandra Assassin)
- gives them immunity for 2 turns
- cleanses any debuffs on them and immunes them to any debuffs for 2 turns
        Aura : Rejuvanating Oasis
Heals this hero and allies for 35% of hero's MAG every turn
        

C. Spirit Walker
 - 2 turns CD
 - adds 10% more damage for all allies for 2 turns
 - gives 60% MAG into a HP shield for all allies for 2 turns
 - reduces damage taken by 10% for 2 turns for all allies 
       Aura : Combative Spirit
When allies in aura are hit, 40% chance to: 
                - heal hero and allies for 40% of hero's MAG
                - reduce cooldown of allies in aura by one turn.

D. Witch Doctor
  - 5 turns CD
  - Reduces DEF of all enemies by 50%
  - Heals squad for 50% of hero's MAG for 3 turns
  - Charms all enemies, forcing them to attack its allies for 1 turns.
       Aura : Everlasting Nightmares
When allies are hit, there is a 40% chance to :
                 - trigger this hero to inflict 50% of hero's MAG as poison damage for 3 turns.
                 - silence enemy's aura for 1 turn

I know you want the Inquisitor to get the 4 turns immunity, but I think the insane defensive combos which would be born from that would be...I don't know. Maybe irritating, maybe interesting ?
Like Lucille SW T2, Altima HD T3, Lucille IQST T4, Lucille WD T5... (Well, in fact, a Lucille team could be fun)
Mmh... Why not for the arena... But the 4 turns CD seems insane in PvE to me, even if I take into account what you said earlier. After the first 4 turns of waiting, it's half of the time being invulnerable, isn't it ?

Even healers need now to be "idiotic trigger teams" to work well. Sorry for those that love this kind of team, I just find it plain stupid. I like strategy... And defensive healers could bring strategy back in arena. 
What about a "20% chance to revive allies in aura when they die" for Lucille ? Wait, I didn't said anything, I'm afraid this could come with a new shitty Dark Lord instead of Lucille...

20% is kinda bad imo. You gotta cross fingers and pray to your gods for it to occur. I don't think aura revive is a nice concept altogether since being too low in chance kinda kills it since it's all or nothing but making the proc chance too high would easily break the aura to OP land.
On a different note, I see healers as rangers with heal, simple as that. Hating healers but accepting rangers is kinda ??? for me since they essentially do the same thing.

I also don't like ranger teams. Efficacity over fun. Meh. It's like playing chess with only queens for me.


A. Inquisitor
 - 4 or 5 turns CD ?
 - 140% heal 
 - 100% immunity for 2 turns
 - party immunity to debuffs for 2 turns
 - increases MAG by 20%
     Aura : Sacred Realm
Increase MAG of this hero and allies in aura by 15 % of hero's MAG + increase DEF of this hero and allies in aura by 15 % of hero's MAG.

B. Archbishop
- 3 turns CD
- heals 210% of hero's MAG to two target in a raw (kinda like Cassandra Assassin)
- gives them immunity for 2 turns
- cleanses any debuffs on them and immunes them to any debuffs for 2 turns
        Aura : Rejuvanating Oasis
Heals this hero and allies for 35% of hero's MAG every turn
        

C. Spirit Walker
 - 2 turns CD
 - adds 10% more damage for all allies for 2 turns
 - gives 60% MAG into a HP shield for all allies for 2 turns
 - reduces damage taken by 10% for 2 turns for all allies 
       Aura : Combative Spirit
When allies in aura are hit, 40% chance to: 
                - heal hero and allies for 40% of hero's MAG
                - reduce cooldown of allies in aura by one turn.

D. Witch Doctor
  - 5 turns CD
  - Reduces DEF of all enemies by 50%
  - Heals squad for 50% of hero's MAG for 3 turns
  - Charms all enemies, forcing them to attack its allies for 1 turns.
       Aura : Everlasting Nightmares
When allies are hit, there is a 40% chance to :
                 - trigger this hero to inflict 50% of hero's MAG as poison damage for 3 turns.
                 - silence enemy's aura for 1 turn

I know you want the Inquisitor to get the 4 turns immunity, but I think the insane defensive combos which would be born from that would be...I don't know. Maybe irritating, maybe interesting ?
Like Lucille SW T2, Altima HD T3, Lucille IQST T4, Lucille WD T5... (Well, in fact, a Lucille team could be fun)
Mmh... Why not for the arena... But the 4 turns CD seems insane in PvE to me, even if I take into account what you said earlier. After the first 4 turns of waiting, it's half of the time being invulnerable, isn't it ?

You gave an idea about SW's aura. What about she can inflict sleep when hit so that she could stop triggers?

The reason why I wanted Lucille to be incredibly great at defending is because:
A. She's the valiant healer. She should be exemplary at defending her allies.
B. It gives trigger teams a headache. It's not fair that there's almost no strategy in trigger teams, just luck and money. By having a hero that incredibly reduces the damage output of trigger teams (like the 4 Cass squad in a previous thread), it forces people to react accordingly. In order to fare better versus a Lucille, that would mean weakening your squad versus the more meta lineups. And by discouraging some meta squads, this could open up to squad formations they are good against. 

What about she can inflict sleep when hit so that she could stop triggers?

I really like that idea. Rangers would still be able to hit hard at the beginning, but it would be stopped. No more 55 hits the first turn. 
Maybe it would push players to build hybrid teams, not one-kind-only teams.