HouseofOrdos
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We can improve PvP and Skill Runes.

Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:41 pm

PVP is more of a flip coin simulator at higher ranks and that mid tier it's more of a Auto play  because of Trigger Ranger teams that plague it.  
So i'm back with more suggestion, I don't force this to become canon, I'm just sharing my idea  in a hope that maybe to inspire a small change in the PVP and Skill runes... that is if there are still someone reading the forums
this place is a ghost town. 

Turn - each hero action is 1 turn
Wave - After all hero performed an action that is 1 wave 

1 hero action = 1 Turn (When a hero is moved, stunned, sleep, attacks, defend, cast skill, refreshed or skips it counts as 1 action thus one turn )
10 hero actions = 1 Wave (When all hero have had their action their aura resets and is again able to be triggered )

All heroes must have performed an action for wave 1 to finish and into wave 2.

Aura 
-All aura has 100% chance to Trigger but only once per wave 
-Refresh doesn't reset Aura
-Aura that heals on hit or after a turn should have no reduce healing anymore because they only trigger once per wave
-Aura that dodge has 1 guarantee dodge per wave
-Aura that provide % bonus to stats remain persistent because well they only provide bonus to stats
-Aura that debuff and buffs will all trigger once per turn
-Aura that deals damage per turn will still deal damage per turn but the aura only trigger once per wave. 

Skill
-Skill CD are equal on both sides meaning 2nd one to go will not have a -1 CD advantage to the 1st one to go
-Taunts should be able to do something in PVP- Single target Taunt reduce 20% ATK of the target and Multi-Target Taunt reduce 10% ATK of the targets for a certain amount of turn.
-Or Taunts could function like fear that disrupts enemy formation or making the retreat by one tile.

Skill runes - All runes only Triggers once per wave. 
-Rune of Double Strike - Should not be able to deal critical attacks. After initial Attack this unit release two attacks that deals 100% of the unit's ATK as physical damage. (a total of 3 strikes)
-Rune of Miracle- Resist a killing blow if HP goes below certain % threshold. Then generate a shield that negate damage for 1 turn.
-Rune of Vampire- Heals gained not be reduce anymore. the extra HP from Heal generate a blood shield. 
-Rune of Dodge- Guarantee 1 Dodge per wave. (Should stack with Aura hence 2 gaurantee dodge per wave for this hero only)
-Rune of Resilience- % chance to resist a skill and generate a shield that reduce incoming damage by 50% for 2 turns.

My suggested skill Rune
-Rune of Retribution- Returns 50% damage received as pure damage then creates and aura of thorns that returns 20% damage receive as magic damage for 2 turns. Trigger only once per wave
-Rune of Shade- When hit, Unit enter stealth for 2 turns. Attacking while in stealth will deal 125% damage and will break the stealth. Attacking, Dispel, and taking damage will break stealth. trigger only one per wave.
-Rune of Phoenix- When unit dies, Revive unit with full HP and skill at max CD. Trigger once per match.  
-Rune of Ethereal- All damage receive is converted to heal 5% of Attack receive. Trigger once per wave,   Persistent effect: this unit's Magic will now reduce Physical and Skill damage  Defense will determine the amount of HP shield created at the start of the turn which last until destroyed. 
 
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Sheryl
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Re: We can improve PvP and Skill Runes.

Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:57 pm

Just comment to show some support for new post.
People just too lazy to post in forum as there's no sign that devs will read them...
People will read new post though few are willing to reply unless they are impressed or interested in the topic.

--------this is a cute divider line--------

I can see you want address the issue of coin flip in arena, which is problem for a long time.
people don't like to lose to luck, but this happens everyday.
Some team want to go first so they can wipe out enemy before without taking a hit.
Some team want to go second so they can cast their skill before their enemy does.
and when you don't have luck to get what you want you will feel bad... 

However, I don't understand how your suggestion will resolve the problem...
The problem is about coin flip(which is actually how turn flows in pvp). It has nothing to do with aura/skill runes.
A simple solution(but definitely not a good one) is to let you 100% go first like that in pve. But your enemy will have an on-spawn buff to make pvp more challenging (which shall be a defensive buff instead of reduce CD for 1 turn).

Actually either going first or second, there will be an optimal team with highest win rate, which everyone will go for. So devs already give up on this problem, instead, they develop more pvp mode like capture the flag(which is coming soon?) to force players to build different team for different game mode. 

Devs want composition diversity more than players, because their job is to sell more heroes to make more money.
The last few heroes like Lu bu and Mordred don't seem to be popular, so devs need to do a better job at shifting the meta.
 
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Taiyouna
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Re: We can improve PvP and Skill Runes.

Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:06 pm

Your Phoenix rune is OP
 
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Ferico
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Re: We can improve PvP and Skill Runes.

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:21 am

I like the reflect rune!
 
HouseofOrdos
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:57 pm

Re: We can improve PvP and Skill Runes.

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:02 pm

Just comment to show some support for new post.
People just too lazy to post in forum as there's no sign that devs will read them...
People will read new post though few are willing to reply unless they are impressed or interested in the topic.

--------this is a cute divider line--------

I can see you want address the issue of coin flip in arena, which is problem for a long time.
people don't like to lose to luck, but this happens everyday.
Some team want to go first so they can wipe out enemy before without taking a hit.
Some team want to go second so they can cast their skill before their enemy does.
and when you don't have luck to get what you want you will feel bad... 

However, I don't understand how your suggestion will resolve the problem...
The problem is about coin flip(which is actually how turn flows in pvp). It has nothing to do with aura/skill runes.
A simple solution(but definitely not a good one) is to let you 100% go first like that in pve. But your enemy will have an on-spawn buff to make pvp more challenging (which shall be a defensive buff instead of reduce CD for 1 turn).

Actually either going first or second, there will be an optimal team with highest win rate, which everyone will go for. So devs already give up on this problem, instead, they develop more pvp mode like capture the flag(which is coming soon?) to force players to build different team for different game mode. 

Devs want composition diversity more than players, because their job is to sell more heroes to make more money.
The last few heroes like Lu bu and Mordred don't seem to be popular, so devs need to do a better job at shifting the meta.
Skills and aura is vital for winning this game
That’s why i suggest that aura trigger only once per turn and that skills on both sides should have equal cooldowns.

Example: guan yu will always be able to cast her skill 1st if she went 2nd in the flip coin which is unfair
The AI sucks but it wins because of luck or a cheat it’s possible to have a 100% win rate but the ai makes sure you don’t. The opponents i constantly defeated suddenly defeats me because
-i went 1st
-AI aura has insane amount of triggers
-my heros aura barely trigger

The Ai constantly pull this BS on me once i get a win rate above 80% ! Is it bad luck? Yes
Is it crazy talk that Ai wants you to lose? Yes because i don’t really know how pvp is programmed!
what is frustrating is this... AI always trigger and my team barely trigger their heal and disable auras! it is gaddamn unfair to lose because your aura trigger chance suddenly drop! I am not imagining this! as this constantly happened to me sometimes i survive this disadvantage with a victory the least!

I don’t know if the game really keeps you at a certain win rate but losing to an RNG make a pvp bad!!! flip coin RNG and Trigger chance RNG to hell with it!

Everyone should have a 50-50 chance of winning regardless what squad they Use! the flip coin should not be the major deciding if you win or not! because once you go 1st Vs a guan yu + rhea it’s a automatic lose unless you have other premium heroes and equips with you. That’s why suggest everything should have 100% chance of triggering but only once for every wave! it eliminates the stupid RNG and it eliminates ai lucky wins!
 
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Sn1v33
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Re: We can improve PvP and Skill Runes.

Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:35 pm

Well this game is rng for the most part if you haven't noticed. Hero and equip pulls, faith of heroes, suffix of equips, drop rates of event heroes, etc. This is a gacha game and as with most gachas, it's heavily rng so you gotta accept your luck just sucks sometimes.

Now for your suggestions:
It seems you want to punish trigger teams a lot from what you are suggesting. DS rune, miracle rune, resilience rune, retribution rune, stealth rune, rune of phoenix and ethereal rune( basically 95% of your suggestions lol)seem all too focused on preventing trigger teams from going overboard. I do think most runes are okay except the double strike and phoenix because the ds rune was already nerfed(it's still strong but I think it's fine that way) and phoenix rune is OP. If I'm guessing, you're having trouble with rangers and trigger-oriented lineups which is usually a problem for people 3.6k below in arena. Fyi, it's easy to predict the ai of trigger teams so just design a squad with an antitrigger hero and adjust your squad's stats so that the antitrigger hero takes the brunt of the attacks. Examples of antitrigger heroes are those that applies debuffs to enemies(like Zoey and Zhuge warlock) to stop them from attacking or heroes with reflect/bleed auras like aden bk and Altima pala. 

Also, I don't agree with your proposed mechanics bc it seems you want to kill aura-intensive lineups like rangers who look OP to most noobs imo. I've been in the mindset that rangers were cancer before but once you understand their ai and make a squad to counter them, they are honestly food squads and are super ez to beat. Also, there are no ranger squares in high arena in most servers so I'm guessing you are ~3.6k in arena or below?

On your example on guan yu(I'll assume she's with rhea and cass bc it's a highly common setup), I know it's a stupidly broken combo but there are ways to counter it even w/o a Dark Lord. Just kill rhea or disable her in time to prevent her from going to her cf. There's kane who can stun her at turn 2 at 75%. You can also skill delay cass with Mordred when he procs his onspawn which is 75%. If your kane or Mordred doesn't stun or proc his skil delay, then it's rng  lulling at you and you just gotta accept you were unlucky. Nothing can be done since it's luck-based.  

Also, premium heroes are the p2w heroes and arena is highly p2w in high arena (top 100). You gotta think the game has a business to run and needs money to operate. Ofc, p2w people would buy them bc they are what they are, p2w. Isn't it normal for arena to be highly p2w at high brackets for most gacha games? If there's nothing to distinguish f2p and p2w, there wouldn't be a need to spend. You think vf can run when no one will spend? Ofc, the game is a business that needs money. 

Just to be clear, I never used ranger squares in arena so there's no reason for me to defend them. They are balanced after the ds rune nerf tbh. 
 
HouseofOrdos
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Re: We can improve PvP and Skill Runes.

Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:40 pm

Well this game is rng for the most part if you haven't noticed. Hero and equip pulls, faith of heroes, suffix of equips, drop rates of event heroes, etc. This is a gacha game and as with most gachas, it's heavily rng so you gotta accept your luck just sucks sometimes.

Now for your suggestions:
It seems you want to punish trigger teams a lot from what you are suggesting. DS rune, miracle rune, resilience rune, retribution rune, stealth rune, rune of phoenix and ethereal rune( basically 95% of your suggestions lol)seem all too focused on preventing trigger teams from going overboard. I do think most runes are okay except the double strike and phoenix because the ds rune was already nerfed(it's still strong but I think it's fine that way) and phoenix rune is OP. If I'm guessing, you're having trouble with rangers and trigger-oriented lineups which is usually a problem for people 3.6k below in arena. Fyi, it's easy to predict the ai of trigger teams so just design a squad with an antitrigger hero and adjust your squad's stats so that the antitrigger hero takes the brunt of the attacks. Examples of antitrigger heroes are those that applies debuffs to enemies(like Zoey and Zhuge warlock) to stop them from attacking or heroes with reflect/bleed auras like aden bk and Altima pala. 

Also, I don't agree with your proposed mechanics bc it seems you want to kill aura-intensive lineups like rangers who look OP to most noobs imo. I've been in the mindset that rangers were cancer before but once you understand their ai and make a squad to counter them, they are honestly food squads and are super ez to beat. Also, there are no ranger squares in high arena in most servers so I'm guessing you are ~3.6k in arena or below?

On your example on guan yu(I'll assume she's with rhea and cass bc it's a highly common setup), I know it's a stupidly broken combo but there are ways to counter it even w/o a Dark Lord. Just kill rhea or disable her in time to prevent her from going to her cf. There's kane who can stun her at turn 2 at 75%. You can also skill delay cass with Mordred when he procs his onspawn which is 75%. If your kane or Mordred doesn't stun or proc his skil delay, then it's rng  lulling at you and you just gotta accept you were unlucky. Nothing can be done since it's luck-based.  

Also, premium heroes are the p2w heroes and arena is highly p2w in high arena (top 100). You gotta think the game has a business to run and needs money to operate. Ofc, p2w people would buy them bc they are what they are, p2w. Isn't it normal for arena to be highly p2w at high brackets for most gacha games? If there's nothing to distinguish f2p and p2w, there wouldn't be a need to spend. You think vf can run when no one will spend? Ofc, the game is a business that needs money. 

Just to be clear, I never used ranger squares in arena so there's no reason for me to defend them. They are balanced after the ds rune nerf tbh. 
damn it! It's gatcha game i should have thought of that before posting that rant... 
I'm actually 5000+ in Arena my server is Gevalon. Trigger teams are not a problem to me. I don't have a zoey or cassandra yet and i wish the damn x10 premium summon just give me one my guild mates already pulled zoeys and Cassandras yeesh... 
Alright... you caught me! I hate trigger teams. I hate them because they made me suffer before the three kingdoms patch. After the three kingdoms update i basically steamrolled all competition! it was a cake walk from gold 3 all the way to Crystal 1 and now i'm in the Champion rank. I'm not gonna deny that the runes and PVP system i suggested are most against Trigger teams not only for Ranger but also for trigger healer teams. 
The Guan yu + Rhea teams is only a problem to me if my opponent has cassandra or zoey + ZL warlock. because cassandra and zoey's "cast ability on spawn" triggers the resilience rune on my heroes thus makes my team prone to ZL warlock silence. 
My team's core is of course Guan yu + Rhea then i have ZL warlock and Lu bu -zerker  Both have low CD of 3 turns and both have powerful disables. The 5th member is Mercia BK, i used to underestimate that hero, glad i was wrong about her. she is really really useful her Aura buff and heal saved my ass in some matches against Rhea that got skilled by Guan Yu!  But sometimes luck isn't at your side and she barely trigger her Aura... probably because she was stunned.

If I go 1st against Guan Yu + Rhea team I can counter them by using  Lu bu -zerker skill,  his low 3 turns CD stun is useful at stunning rhea  so she won't wipe out your team once she gets skilled by Guan yu PL
then ZL warlock can either be use to silence other heroes or silence Guan Yu if she hasn't used her skill yet and if her resilience buff got pop by Lu bu -zerker's stun . 
It's a solid strategy against Guan yu + Rhea setup but only effective if there is no Cassandra or zoey and ZL warlock in the other team and if Rhea doesn't have a resilience rune but  people usually put a double damage rune on her. 
Another Variant to this is to replace ZL warlock with Taegen mind warder seriously this guy is powerful if build right! in his celestial form his attack becomes an AoE silence and 2 turns of dmg per turn. I wonder why people don't use him in PVP.

Mordred isn't popular in Arena coz his buff is easily countered by Guan Yu PL. His mage bane is too squishy but his Low CD skills is good at breaking aura links or isolating a vital unit in the enemy team. His Samurai has a great on spawn buff and his skill provides him stealth but easily countered by Guan yu even if you have resilience rune it is easily countered by cast on spawn skill debuff from cassandra and zoey. 

I actually spend money on this game i'm at prestige 10 but yeah i cannot defeat those who are prestige 16+ especially those 20+.  At top 100 it's easy for me to memorize the players i cannot beat i know prestige 16+ their squads probably have full sets of limit broken 5* gears or 6* - 7* gear and probably 5-6* runes too.  i said you can have 100% win rate because you can choose to decline a fight against those players you know can't defeat.