Valiant Force Forum

Hello!

First of all, I would like to say that the reason I'm taking the time to type this out is because XII Brave is not only a local brand that I strongly support, but also because it's a company by gamers for gamers. I would like to believe that this is true.

A. PREFACE / BACKGROUND (Skip this if you're lazy)
I've been following the development of Valiant Force ever since it's inception and signed up last year when the pre-registration was simply on a piece of paper with a pen at a local (Singapore) booth @ STGCC. Every time there's been a post on the Valiant Force Facebook page / etc I've been actively sharing and getting excited for a locally produced game to take on the mobile app market. I was even more excited for XII Braves when you announced you had partnered up with companies bigger than themselves to launch the game in the international market - so much so that I was willing to wait even longer for the official launch of the game.

Fast forward to this year. Close Beta launched and was open to Android users. Some of my friends never got the key, while others ran iOS devices. While I was really excited about the game, I wasn't about to purchase a new android phone simply to play the CBT. I understood the reason why Apple users didn't get the CBT - it's customary for CBT to be on Android. The wait continued as I entertained myself with other games both on PC and on mobile.

First day of launch
On the 1st of November, I eagerly waited for the launch of the game - realizing that there was no launch timing on the Facebook Page. It got slightly frustrating as there was zero indication on the page and no reply to the people posting on the page itself... until 6:41pm (+8 GMT), where you declared the game's official launch.

I'm not going to lie, with all the patience I had, I was slightly disappointed with the way this was handled. While I understand there was no fix time in which Apple would roll out the app to its store, it would have been nice if you had mentioned something on the Facebook page itself so at least the players knew you hadn't forgotten about the game on Launch day.

B. GAMEPLAY
These opinions are of course, of my own and not representative of anyone else. There will definitely be people who might not agree with what I say here. Now I've been an avid player of games, both on mobile and on PC, and I would like to share some constructive criticism now that I've finally gotten my hands on the game as a non-CBT player.

Multi-genre fusion
I really enjoy how there's an attempt to include multiple genres in a single mobile game. The equipment swapping element of the game is reminiscent of classic SRPG like the Final Fantasy Tactic series. This, along with base building elements to gain resources definitely adds points to the game. As an experienced gamer, I had little difficulty navigating the experiences - the guide quest function definitely helped.

First impressions - SRPG (?)
Here comes the problematic bit. Mobile games need to catch the players' attention very quickly. All it takes is a double tap back to our home screen and a few seconds to delete the game, never giving it a second thought. I would say very honestly that I gave this game more time than I would have given other games because of above-mentioned reasons. The first one hour of the game was spent doing repetitive quests, where the monsters barely scratched my characters. I would repeat the same actions every single match and I'd win. This, plagued with the constant barrage of "LIMITED TIME PACKS" was getting slightly discouraging. Where was the strategy? No doubt veterans of the game who had sloughed through the beginning stages during the CBT would say that the depth comes in later in the game, where you tinker with character builds, etc. However, most of the curious, generic, casual player base would have been lost by then.

There was little motivation to continue playing past the first 9 levels (repeating the same actions again and again) before unlocking the event map.

Layout
When it comes to SRPGs, there has been a few in the mobile market that's pretty popular. Now this is where I quote evidence from the app market itself to back my assertions - 
Fantasy War Tactics and Phantom of the Kill  are both titles that have been out for some time, averaging a 4.5 in the android app store. Both of them have relatively clutter-free layouts during the actual battle segments where players tend to spend most of their time. Valiant Force, however, splits its screen into two; with the bottom portion as the controls and the 3D elements at the top of the screen. Now I don't know if its just me, but I realized I've rarely stared at the top half of the screen for most of the battles. I'm effectively playing this game on half of my phone's screen whenever I'm battling.

Character rendering
I believe the reason why I didn't look at the top half of the screen as much as I wanted to was partially because of this - the 3D characters felt very rough compared to the well-drawn 2D art (props to Alchemaniac). The details were not very compelling. However, I do appreciate the cut scenes for when they use their skills - a pity you only finally manage to use those skills more than an hour into the game.

CBT vs New players
I believe that by now you've read enough complaints about CBT vs new players and how there's been no data wipe for the official launch. I do not understand much about the production of games as I'm simply a player, so I'll choose to respect your decision to go for a no-wipe CBT instead of simply rewarding CBT players with exclusive items in the official launch after the wipe as per many other games. However, it does bring about certain problems as it does affect the experience of a new player in two main aspects:-

1) Arena.
The most competitive players (read, Whales or hardcore free players) of a game who will spend most of their time obsessing over your game and spreading it by word of mouth will definitely be looking to play in the Arena. Grinding all the way to level 15 for new players to finally unlock the Arena will only lead to disappointment and a huge sense of helplessness as they look at the rankings in comparison to their puny, unevolved characters. There's very little incentive to spend on the game to play catch up when they can choose instead to devote their time to another game where they know they'll get an edge if they spend / grind hard enough.

2) Event.
Frankly, this damages the game more than the arena itself, because it doesn't just affect your hardcore player base, but it affects the vast majority of the new players looking to pick up a game. I've read guides and looked at tips for this event (and most players won't even do this) and I'm just looking at the items that costs 10,000 and above and wondering just how many times I have to grind the beginning stages of the event to gather enough tokens. (I started the minute the game launched and I can only get ~20 tokens per game currently) I believe this Halloween event was not very suitably paced as a starting event. It felt more like the official launch was months ago and I'm starting a game that has events catered to players who are veterans of the game. A better event would be something that's realistic enough for new players to clear within your two week timeframe without having to spend 12 hours a day + waiting for energy refills to complete.

It's very discouraging to start a new game and receive this message -  "Give this event a miss, the mobs are too strong for you. Perhaps next event, maybe."

Conclusion
I'm not sure what kind of backlash I will receive for posting this, but I've decided to take some time out to type this not to bash the game nor the devs, but because I feel a lot for this game since a year ago and I really do want to support fellow Singaporeans in a dream that's often laughed at in our society. I really want XII Braves to succeed, and I want Valiant Force to be a game I can happily promote to my friends as an amazing locally produced game. I don't know what you can do at this point, but I'll continue playing for a week or so to look at the many different functions the game has to offer (and still try for the event exclusive items), but I don't see many new players doing the same.

P.S. I did read the README before posting. I hope this didn't flout any of the rules.

When you are high level, new players will come in and feedback the same thing: "How come no chance for new players to get the end-event items?"

For new players, I feel that their aim is to build up their squads for future events. The Halloween tickets give tons of undead mobs for players to train their main heroes, which is a good thing.

For older players, they can try to get the Maleos card or items.

There is something for both sides.

I understand you feel that for launch, everything should be equal and everyone should have the same chance in the launch event.

But I kind of get where the dev team is coming from. And the Maleos items, they aren't useful for most players since they break up better sets which are 3 or 4 star.

You criticism is 100% right in all your points.


But like many said already, there is no way for the dev to make everyone happy..
Then they just choose to make (more) happy the beta players, probably after they made some calculations on their pockets.

In my opinion criticism is always a great thing, especially for devs to understand mistakes or bad things about their games, but right now, is too late to change back some of their decisions..

When you are high level, new players will come in and feedback the same thing: "How come no chance for new players to get the end-event items?"

For new players, I feel that their aim is to build up their squads for future events. The Halloween tickets give tons of undead mobs for players to train their main heroes, which is a good thing.

For older players, they can try to get the Maleos card or items.

There is something for both sides.

I understand you feel that for launch, everything should be equal and everyone should have the same chance in the launch event.

But I kind of get where the dev team is coming from. And the Maleos items, they aren't useful for most players since they break up better sets which are 3 or 4 star.

I think this could be best replied with a question. How would you feel if they opened CBT with this event? This is the feeling that new players who have waited for the official launch would be feeling. This is different from, say, if I went to the app store now and randomly chose a highly reviewed game to try. If I did that, I don't think I have the right to complain about not being able to participate in the events immediately because they would rightfully so be meant for the majority of the players who are probably mid - late game, and the company's focus is to retain these players. It's called a launch event for a reason - not a "oh we've been around for some time" event.
I would have expected an official launch to have an accompanying event such as - Complete first 12 chapters to get this 4* hero / event where you farm stuff that'll help you progress through the game without letting you feel that you missed something out even though you waited for the official launch. (bear in mind the CBT code wasn't given to every applicant)

Mentioning that the Maleos items aren't useful for most players isn't really helpful in this regard because this is coming from CBT players who have a general understanding of the game. Try to put these items in the perspective of a new player and how it drives them away from the game:-
"Ohhh those items look nice and shiny." "Oh damn, it looks like I can't get them unless I play 2,000 repetitive event missions in which I can't even kill the boss of the easiest stage." 
It really begs the question... which is the real official launch?

You criticism is 100% right in all your points.


But like many said already, there is no way for the dev to make everyone happy..
Then they just choose to make (more) happy the beta players, probably after they made some calculations on their pockets.

In my opinion criticism is always a great thing, especially for devs to understand mistakes or bad things about their games, but right now, is too late to change back some of their decisions..

Definitely true that this is their choice, and I respect whatever decision they make. I made this post not to whine or complain about the game, but to share my experiences as a new player because I think this is valuable insight for the direction of the game. 

When you are high level, new players will come in and feedback the same thing: "How come no chance for new players to get the end-event items?"

For new players, I feel that their aim is to build up their squads for future events. The Halloween tickets give tons of undead mobs for players to train their main heroes, which is a good thing.

For older players, they can try to get the Maleos card or items.

There is something for both sides.

I understand you feel that for launch, everything should be equal and everyone should have the same chance in the launch event.

But I kind of get where the dev team is coming from. And the Maleos items, they aren't useful for most players since they break up better sets which are 3 or 4 star.

I think this could be best replied with a question. How would you feel if they opened CBT with this event? This is the feeling that new players who have waited for the official launch would be feeling. This is different from, say, if I went to the app store now and randomly chose a highly reviewed game to try. If I did that, I don't think I have the right to complain about not being able to participate in the events immediately because they would rightfully so be meant for the majority of the players who are probably mid - late game, and the company's focus is to retain these players. It's called a launch event for a reason - not a "oh we've been around for some time" event.
I would have expected an official launch to have an accompanying event such as - Complete first 12 chapters to get this 4* hero / event where you farm stuff that'll help you progress through the game without letting you feel that you missed something out even though you waited for the official launch. (bear in mind the CBT code wasn't given to every applicant)

Mentioning that the Maleos items aren't useful for most players isn't really helpful in this regard because this is coming from CBT players who have a general understanding of the game. Try to put these items in the perspective of a new player and how it drives them away from the game:-
"Ohhh those items look nice and shiny." "Oh damn, it looks like I can't get them unless I play 2,000 repetitive event missions in which I can't even kill the boss of the easiest stage." 
It really begs the question... which is the real official launch?

You criticism is 100% right in all your points.


But like many said already, there is no way for the dev to make everyone happy..
Then they just choose to make (more) happy the beta players, probably after they made some calculations on their pockets.

In my opinion criticism is always a great thing, especially for devs to understand mistakes or bad things about their games, but right now, is too late to change back some of their decisions..

Definitely true that this is their choice, and I respect whatever decision they make. I made this post not to whine or complain about the game, but to share my experiences as a new player because I think this is valuable insight for the direction of the game. 

I can't help but to agree with what you've post, hopefully you don't get mad @Hanzo because most of his post is based on his perspective. Later when i'm free, i'll open another suggestion thread based on yours experience & new player perspective. i'll head out for dinner, brb~ peace.

2) Event.
Frankly, this damages the game more than the arena itself, because it doesn't just affect your hardcore player base, but it affects the vast majority of the new players looking to pick up a game. I've read guides and looked at tips for this event (and most players won't even do this) and I'm just looking at the items that costs 10,000 and above and wondering just how many times I have to grind the beginning stages of the event to gather enough tokens. (I started the minute the game launched and I can only get ~20 tokens per game currently) I believe this Halloween event was not very suitably paced as a starting event. It felt more like the official launch was months ago and I'm starting a game that has events catered to players who are veterans of the game. A better event would be something that's realistic enough for new players to clear within your two week timeframe without having to spend 12 hours a day + waiting for energy refills to complete.

It's very discouraging to start a new game and receive this message -  "Give this event a miss, the mobs are too strong for you. Perhaps next event, maybe."

The truth is nobody can get all the rewards from this event unless they invest large amount of gems on energy refill everyday. Even I, who started a week after close beta was released, have to decide on which rewards I want while giving up on the others. Everyone is missing something, so dont let it put you away.

I can't help but to agree with what you've post, hopefully you don't get mad @Hanzo because most of his post is based on his perspective. Later when i'm free, i'll open another suggestion thread based on yours experience & new player perspective. i'll head out for dinner, brb~ peace.

Hey no worries, I understand that most of the people here are CBT players, including the Devs themselves. I understand why the devs decided to launch the halloween event - because they're trying to cater to BOTH the CBT players and the New players.


The logic on the other end is simple. CBT Players enjoy farming 4*- 5* loot, new players use this event to farm 2* - 3* mob drops to grind their characters. Good for everyone, right? Nope. The flaw is in that this will keep the CBT players but drive away the new players, even if the exclusive loots might not have a huge impact on the overall health of the game.
A suitable "launch event" should be something that will whet the appetite of a new player; to try to prevent them from deleting the game after one day of game play. This event is definitely not doing it. IF LETS SAY, you want to cater to BOTH CBT and new players + you don't want to wipe the data, a good idea for this very same event style would be having a multiplayer system where CBT + new player goes into horde battle together. At this point if you give the CBT more benefits for helping out the newbie, people would be completely fine with it + it helps sustain the game as CBT players ease new players into the game.


But I'm just rambling, because I know that while other games have this, the technical portion of this system might be difficult for XII Braves to implement as of now.

The truth is nobody can get all the rewards from this event unless they invest large amount of gems on energy refill everyday. Even I, who started a week after close beta was released, have to decide on which rewards I want while giving up on the others. Everyone is missing something, so dont let it put you away.

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but perhaps this is not the best way to go about having a sustainable game. 

As a CBT player who have friends that join during launch, I totally get where you're coming from and for your criticism I think it's right on the spot.
I agree they should treat the "launch" phase so it caters more to newbie, and as a CBT player I would have understood it.
Yesterday i was waiting for servers to go down and open up with new exp bonus, promotions or launch packages to appear but it never did >.<
I also think it was weird that there was no announcement or any update on launch timing, even though finally they did launch on the scheduled date.
I understand they can't please everybody, they have tried to adjust stuff and give better login rewards, guide quest and such, but I feel a little more can be done for those newbies joining...

From one of my friend's newbie perspective, "i'll join arena and have some fun" .."oh whattheshitisthis why are they all 5 stars holding purplue glowy weapon".."nevermind i'll just be a collector and do the lovely halloween event ^.^"...*stares at 25000 pumpkins to exchange*..."hmm..i wonder how many times i have to do the event to get it?"...*goes into event*....*gets 20 pumpkin*...*cry*...

We all have our own opinions but i'm sure all of us here want the game to succeed. The newcomers also want to have fun with the game and not feeling too setback by stuff.
Sure they can ignore the 25000 pumpkins exchange and focus on halloween tickets and stuff, but if majority of newcomers are feeling they are facing such letdown, we can't force them to think that it's ok and also have to accept their opinion. Although it might be a bit late to do anything now, we can always give comments so the devs can improve in the future.

As a CBT player who have friends that join during launch, I totally get where you're coming from and for your criticism I think it's right on the spot.
I agree they should treat the "launch" phase so it caters more to newbie, and as a CBT player I would have understood it.
Yesterday i was waiting for servers to go down and open up with new exp bonus, promotions or launch packages to appear but it never did >.<
I also think it was weird that there was no announcement or any update on launch timing, even though finally they did launch on the scheduled date.
I understand they can't please everybody, they have tried to adjust stuff and give better login rewards, guide quest and such, but I feel a little more can be done for those newbies joining...

From one of my friend's newbie perspective, "i'll join arena and have some fun" .."oh whattheshitisthis why are they all 5 stars holding purplue glowy weapon".."nevermind i'll just be a collector and do the lovely halloween event ^.^"...*stares at 25000 pumpkins to exchange*..."hmm..i wonder how many times i have to do the event to get it?"...*goes into event*....*gets 20 pumpkin*...*cry*...

We all have our own opinions but i'm sure all of us here want the game to succeed. The newcomers also want to have fun with the game and not feeling too setback by stuff.
Sure they can ignore the 25000 pumpkins exchange and focus on halloween tickets and stuff, but if majority of newcomers are feeling they are facing such letdown, we can't force them to think that it's ok and also have to accept their opinion. Although it might be a bit late to do anything now, we can always give comments so the devs can improve in the future.

Well, based on the fact that I'm level 50+, and still barely able to farm like 40 pumpkins on Normal, those 20 pumpkins aren't that bad... but those 25000 pumpkins are...