Valiant Force Forum

well if you understand how the ladder work, anyone participating will still get some amount of reward, AS LONG AS THEY ARE DEALING AT LEAST 1 DAMAGE. I believe they included a ladder system because from what I heard (correct me if I'm wrong) we can only collect the treasure IF the boss is defeated. Without some people putting more efforts than usual to deal damage to the boss, no one will get the prize.
Now let me ask you, how will those people who dealt the most damage to the boss feel if they get the same reward as everyone else? It may be more rewarding to others, especially those who slack off, but on long term it'll also repel stronger guild members from participating.

On my guild part, this new content flare up quite long discussion on our guild chat group. We discuss how to better deal damage to it, share our experience, and even plan ahead because even the first boss has so much health we had some doubt whether we can defeat it in a week. And there are, what? at least 3 more of them still waiting. At this point we barely have any thought about the ranking in ladder, only about whether we can down the boss or not.

Now, even if people who tops the ladder shares their build, not everyone in the guild can copy the same exact build or strategy. There is a matter of resources (heroes available, equipments, etc), and moreover, LUCK.
As for team build and strategy, if no one in the guild willing to share theirs (I can only offer you my condolence if that's the case), just be patient. I believe there will be people out there who will share their build and strategy anyway. Moreover, there are already several guides in the forum about team composition against epic boss like this.


And I can only agree to the suggestions of giving rewards when the boss' health has drop to a certain level. Not every guild can defeat the boss in a week time.

That's what I thought about all other comments so far.

As for the feedback, I think the boss has too much health. Plus, there are turn constrain before the boss instantly kill the whole party, limiting the damage that can be dished out in a single run. Like I said before, at this point, for some guild, it'll prove to be too hard to kill all the boss available within 7 days of time before reset.

And.. those little snakes are irritating..

A lot of ppl already posted and shared the same concern as mine regarding the competition within the guild. I understand that the devs want to spread out the reward around and not limit the best for the upper level. Still, the ladder within the guild is not a morale boost for the guild itself. Please consider making changes.

Of all the suggestion, im with this one below

First of all devs, thanks for thhis guild raid content.

Secondly, I am one with most people here. A ladder within the guild most certainly gives a feeling of competition instead of promoting cooperation between guildmates.

Random suggestions:
- Give a fixed reward when a certain damage is reached. Like everyone gets the same reward if they reached 5% damage, so on and so forth.
- Additional rewards for everyone if by the end of the week, boss drops at a certain HP%.

Separate individual effort and guild effort.

Fixed dmg for individual effort, if players reach certain dmg figure, they will receive individual reward which is raid token.

Guild effort dmg is the most difficult issue and should be handled with care. The original purpose is to make the guild achieve something together so guild effort reward should exist. But the devs have to handle reward with care coz allowing much better reward based off total dmg dealt will create power creep at top guilds. Small guilds may cease their existence immediately and hierarchy status of top guilds will be very solid and the flow of players will move to the top for rewards. Average guilds or general guilds will remain but hopelessly coz their members, despite spending more in the game, will not be able to compete with even low spenders at top guilds.

The reward should still make people feel its rewarding for the guild effort but not super luxurious. It's a very difficult decision to make. IMHO I think reward for guild effort should not be raid token but something else. Or if the devs still want to reward raid token, the amount should be low (no suggested figure up to the decision so long as it will slow down power creep at top level).

... I believe they included a ladder system because from what I heard (correct me if I'm wrong) we can only collect the treasure IF the boss is defeated ...

I believe that's not the intention. The reward will be given based on dmg dealt but i don't think we need to kill the boss to get reward as less than 2% of the guilds will be able to kill it within a week and the boss's health will be reset weekly (the last part is confirmed by the devs).

... I believe they included a ladder system because from what I heard (correct me if I'm wrong) we can only collect the treasure IF the boss is defeated ...

I believe that's not the intention. The reward will be given based on dmg dealt but i don't think we need to kill the boss to get reward as less than 2% of the guilds will be able to kill it within a week and the boss's health will be reset weekly (the last part is confirmed by the devs).

I think it is, because it states in the announcement (in game) that Raid Tokens will be given out only when the boss is defeated.
Or perhaps it means you can get the random token tickets and gold but not the token if the boss is not defeated?

That's why I was asking about the "reset" and if the bosses have to always be killed in sequence in the other topic.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3401&start=10

I still need more information before doing a feedback

Now let me ask you, how will those people who dealt the most damage to the boss feel if they get the same reward as everyone else? It may be more rewarding to others, especially those who slack off, but on long term it'll also repel stronger guild members from participating.

I am not implying you but i feel it's kinda selfish for people "who dealt the most damage to the boss" to feel that they should be entitled to get more rewards than anybody else. I mean, unless the player is good enough to clear the boss "All_by_himself" from full to zero, i would then understand and feel that sentiment for him. If he can't do it from full to zero by himself, why should he get more rewards than all the other people who contributed to damaging the boss even though they may be doing lesser damage than him? 

If the other people did not help to damage the boss at all, no matter how much he tried/cried, he won't be able to down it himself and move onto the next boss for more rewards.

Raids is a team/guild effort and and players should have a "team" mentality rather than "individual" mentality. I'm not sure you have ever ran/joined large scale raids of other bigger non-mobile games before (This is in no way a derogatory remark to you), but i have ran and manage a few actual raid teams/groups before (Way before WoW and other MMOs made such things trival and puggable) and i can tell you that for these Raids to happen consistently and succeed, besides having the odd good players here ad there, the most important thing is to have a team mentality where no-one is indispensable, no-one is rewarded more DKP (Dragon-Kill-Points) just because he is topping the dps charts or the healmeter and we all know that if we managed to downed a tough boss for the first time, it's not because of someone topping the dps meters or someone topping the healmeter; it is because we, as a group, managed to execute everything perfectly and get the kill as a team. Yea, we can complain all about how someone might be underperforming / making a mistake after that but we never ever reward people more DKP just because of their higher dps/hps because when someone becomes bigger than the team, everything goes downhill rather quickly.

That's why i propose in my earlier suggestion a 2.85% threshold where anyone who passed this threshold would be considered as having done their part and rewarded the SAME amount of rewards (rather than the current ladder system where the number 1 takes most) and these people who passed the 2.85 threshold will be rewarded MORE than others who hasn't made the 2.85% threshold.

Why no one asked how the prize distributed?
Did we have to kill the boss before 1 session (1 week) in order for us to get the reward?
because thats what I think about the system rite now..

Why no one asked how the prize distributed?
Did we have to kill the boss before 1 session (1 week) in order for us to get the reward?
because thats what I think about the system rite now..

I dont understand why you guys can make this LONG comments without knowing anything about how the prize distribution works.. (because I dont see developer give official announcement about it..)

The raid boss must indeed be defeated (to 0%) to be counted. Currently, there is nothing for just damaging it to ??? HP.

Again, please give your feedback on this system, and how would you improve it based on your experience and making this fun for everyone.

Now let me ask you, how will those people who dealt the most damage to the boss feel if they get the same reward as everyone else? It may be more rewarding to others, especially those who slack off, but on long term it'll also repel stronger guild members from participating.

I am not implying you but i feel it's kinda selfish for people "who dealt the most damage to the boss" to feel that they should be entitled to get more rewards than anybody else. I mean, unless the player is good enough to clear the boss "All_by_himself" from full to zero, i would then understand and feel that sentiment for him. If he can't do it from full to zero by himself, why should he get more rewards than all the other people who contributed to damaging the boss even though they may be doing lesser damage than him? 

If the other people did not help to damage the boss at all, no matter how much he tried/cried, he won't be able to down it himself and move onto the next boss for more rewards.

Raids is a team/guild effort and and players should have a "team" mentality rather than "individual" mentality. I'm not sure you have ever ran/joined large scale raids of other bigger non-mobile games before (This is in no way a derogatory remark to you), but i have ran and manage a few actual raid teams/groups before (Way before WoW and other MMOs made such things trival and puggable) and i can tell you that for these Raids to happen consistently and succeed, besides having the odd good players here ad there, the most important thing is to have a team mentality where no-one is indispensable, no-one is rewarded more DKP (Dragon-Kill-Points) just because he is topping the dps charts or the healmeter and we all know that if we managed to downed a tough boss for the first time, it's not because of someone topping the dps meters or someone topping the healmeter; it is because we, as a group, managed to execute everything perfectly and get the kill as a team. Yea, we can complain all about how someone might be underperforming / making a mistake after that but we never ever reward people more DKP because of higher dps/hps because when someone become bigger than the team, everything goes downhill rather quickly.

Well to tell you the truth, I DO have experience on participating in a raid boss on non-mobile phone online game. The BIG, HUGE difference is: in every single non-mobile phone online game, everyone in the raid team are expected to fulfill a certain prequisite before tackling the said raid boss. Would you still tackle the raid boss knowing some of the members are underequipped while most of you barely able to fulfill the prequisite? I don't think so. Unless you guys are only tackling it for fun and don't bother if the run ended up fail.

All the while, in this game case, not everyone in the guild is of the same level and resources. It's to be expected that some of them deal less damage than the stronger one. Now, if the rewards is only being given if the boss is defeated, do you think a casual guild without decently strong team member will be able to pull it off? I personally don't think it's possible. Is it wrong to reward the stronger one more because they are are dealing more damage than others, thus helping immensely in defeating the boss?

Yes there is that requirement to beat heroic 24-3 first, but personally I think that's just a way to ensure that your party member(s) could survive the boss' attack. A guild can only have 35 member max. The 1st boss health is 243.000.000. If the members are equal in term of power, that means every single member is expected to deal around 6 million damage in a week, in order to be able to kill the boss. That's 900.000 worth of damage in a single day.

Now as I said before, difference in power is inevitable in every guild, unless the guild deliberately only recruited 'strong' players. I for one can only deal around 700k on the first day. It's because I'm lucky my party member keep triggering each other attack and that I'm not a big spender myself (only bought the emiko delivery once) so can only outfit most of my heroes with 4* equipments. On the second day I can only deal 400k because I'm not as lucky, and that I'm experimenting with different line up. Now let me ask you, where and how do I fulfill the remaining 700k damage that I'm required to deal in this two days?

I can't. Unless I spend crap ton of money to fill the gap of power.

I can only rely on the stronger guild members, and do my best to deal as much damage as possible with my current available resource. The stronger members are there to fill the gap the weaker guild member made. So is it wrong to reward them more? Let me ask you again, will they keep doing so if there is no benefit in doing so?

Look at the reward list. The only difference between rank 1 and rank 2-5 is that rank 1 receive more gold and 1 extra raid token. The same difference also apply to rank 2-5 to the rank below them. And all this, is only being given IF we defeat the boss. Look at how many tokens we need to exchange for a single piece of equipment. 12! They may have quicker access to the armor 1-2 weeks faster than everyone else, but I suppose it's because they deserve for it because they help the most in defeating the boss.

The raid boss must indeed be defeated (to 0%) to be counted. Currently, there is nothing for just damaging it to ??? HP.

Again, please give your feedback on this system, and how would you improve it based on your experience and making this fun for everyone.

That settles it then. The boss will be too tough to beat for normal guild at this point.