I can feel disturbance in the force.
Anyhow, I ageee to most points raised by both Wong amd JeForceX but there are certain issues I want to differ, though I will not be citing them specifically for now due to time constraints (currrently working in my day job so I can edit this later).
Let's first acknowledge that VF is in chaos. Most threads are either complaints or negative feedbacks and those break my heart. It seems that I am watching this unique game dies slowly in front of my own eyes. I'm actually worried that I could not play another game as fun as I have in VF but I'm still holding on to this little hope that in any day, things will turn good for everyone of us.
There are simple and complex things we want for VF but unfortunately, not all will be accomodated for unknown reasons so I recommend to everyone to keep helping this game by giving constructive criticisms and we hope VF would acknowledge each of them.
Peace Out.
Re: [Valiant Force] From a Dolphin's Point of View
Actually, it is hard to judge the general consensus. Those who are satisfied either left or are playing the game blissfully, and only those who wants stuff changed will... well complain.Most threads are either complaints or negative feedbacks and those break my heart.
Re: [Valiant Force] From a Dolphin's Point of View
I agree with James' points mostly except for his no.2 "The Gatcha rates suck" when he defend the low rates and no. 5 "The game takes too much time" where he defends the game being less grindy than other games.
"The Gatcha rates suck"
Yes, the Gatcha rates DO suck. Imagine, we are at a relatively early stage of the game currently where the number of heroes are relatively few and the rate to summon an event hero is approximately 0.71% during their RATE UP from your generous testings over (140 * 6) 840 summons (please correct me if i am wrong).
Without counting in the Valiants (because it's a realistically low low almost non-existent chance - i'm not saying it's impossible to draw them though), there are approximately 159 units (including 3*/4*/5* versions of every current unit) in the gem summoning pool. While i understand the chance to summon a default 5* from the pool is probably lower than summoning their 3* versions, for simplicity sake, let's assume that every unit has an equal chance of being summoned. 1/159 would equal to 0.63%
Compare your tested 0.71% with that of the generic 0.63%. Is there honestly a Rate Up? Has the developers being lying to us through their teeth? In another game I play, where there is a large enough active community, they actually polled summon data from people who are willing to contribute as a good way to keep the developers in check, and that game, usually when a Rate Up is mentioned by the developers, will correspond to a 5% draw rate of Rate Up units - a REAL RATE UP.
Incidentally, you also mentioned about the summoning rates in Summoner's War (which i do play too) - and yes i agree with you the rates to summon a Natural 5* there is abysmal but unlike VF, they do not release new units every 2-3 weeks and the meta rarely shifts overly to the new units even if they get released. However, VF as everyone knows releases new meta changing units at such high frequency, sometimes i am not even sure why i'm summoning this week rather than wait (endlessly) for the next OP meta changing new units coming out 1-2 weeks later.
The introduction of Valianite does not absolve the game/developers of these sucky rates. It is more of a currency to encourage whales/dolphins to keep summoning rather than helping the poor get the unit they really want/need consistently. Previously whales had nothing to reward them to keep buying gems to keep on summoning after they reach tier 15 Prestige and the developers came out with this to "reward" them. 20 Valianites means at least 7 - 10 of x10 summons (equaling 2800 to 4000 gems == S$ 200 to S$ 300) Remember, you will have had summoned 7 times x10 of FOOD (no 5* potentials) to buy a summoner you want. You probably earn alot more than what others may be earning to continue spending S$ 400 or so every 2 weeks for your 5600 gems summoning fest, but i digress. My point is It is not as "easy to earn" Valianite as you think for majority of people, and Valianite is not a currency to help the poor, but to appease the rich (or encourage them to summon).
Comparing the summon rates of Summoners War to VF is unfair. There is no need/hurry for the general populace in Summoners War to get the "newest and greatest" every time they release a new unit and their new units are usually not meta-changing but balanced. Whereas, there is a general need/hurry for the general populace in VF to get the "newest and greatest" every 2 - 3 weeks because of how their events work and how meta changing/unbalanced these new units generally are.
Edit: Accidentally included 2* versions of heroes in previous count, changed from 165 units to 159 units.
"The Gatcha rates suck"
Yes, the Gatcha rates DO suck. Imagine, we are at a relatively early stage of the game currently where the number of heroes are relatively few and the rate to summon an event hero is approximately 0.71% during their RATE UP from your generous testings over (140 * 6) 840 summons (please correct me if i am wrong).
Without counting in the Valiants (because it's a realistically low low almost non-existent chance - i'm not saying it's impossible to draw them though), there are approximately 159 units (including 3*/4*/5* versions of every current unit) in the gem summoning pool. While i understand the chance to summon a default 5* from the pool is probably lower than summoning their 3* versions, for simplicity sake, let's assume that every unit has an equal chance of being summoned. 1/159 would equal to 0.63%
Compare your tested 0.71% with that of the generic 0.63%. Is there honestly a Rate Up? Has the developers being lying to us through their teeth? In another game I play, where there is a large enough active community, they actually polled summon data from people who are willing to contribute as a good way to keep the developers in check, and that game, usually when a Rate Up is mentioned by the developers, will correspond to a 5% draw rate of Rate Up units - a REAL RATE UP.
Incidentally, you also mentioned about the summoning rates in Summoner's War (which i do play too) - and yes i agree with you the rates to summon a Natural 5* there is abysmal but unlike VF, they do not release new units every 2-3 weeks and the meta rarely shifts overly to the new units even if they get released. However, VF as everyone knows releases new meta changing units at such high frequency, sometimes i am not even sure why i'm summoning this week rather than wait (endlessly) for the next OP meta changing new units coming out 1-2 weeks later.
The introduction of Valianite does not absolve the game/developers of these sucky rates. It is more of a currency to encourage whales/dolphins to keep summoning rather than helping the poor get the unit they really want/need consistently. Previously whales had nothing to reward them to keep buying gems to keep on summoning after they reach tier 15 Prestige and the developers came out with this to "reward" them. 20 Valianites means at least 7 - 10 of x10 summons (equaling 2800 to 4000 gems == S$ 200 to S$ 300) Remember, you will have had summoned 7 times x10 of FOOD (no 5* potentials) to buy a summoner you want. You probably earn alot more than what others may be earning to continue spending S$ 400 or so every 2 weeks for your 5600 gems summoning fest, but i digress. My point is It is not as "easy to earn" Valianite as you think for majority of people, and Valianite is not a currency to help the poor, but to appease the rich (or encourage them to summon).
Comparing the summon rates of Summoners War to VF is unfair. There is no need/hurry for the general populace in Summoners War to get the "newest and greatest" every time they release a new unit and their new units are usually not meta-changing but balanced. Whereas, there is a general need/hurry for the general populace in VF to get the "newest and greatest" every 2 - 3 weeks because of how their events work and how meta changing/unbalanced these new units generally are.
Edit: Accidentally included 2* versions of heroes in previous count, changed from 165 units to 159 units.
Last edited by Pat437 on Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: [Valiant Force] From a Dolphin's Point of View
@JamesWong
+1
Rolled an Ares Sven from the 100% completion a few days ago. Must say it's quite generous of them to give away a rate up unit for free. Quite satisfied with VF thus far and will probably be playing it in the foreseeable future.
There is probably no game out there that's going to be perfectly balanced. The imbalances in VF right now are quite forgivable imo because XII have proven that they are willing to accept feedback and continue balancing the game. This alone is a huge plus for me, since a changing game means new things to try out and play with.
Yeah Summoners are quite imbalanced right now, but I don't foresee that it will be difficult to bring them in line, and I have been having a ball of a time finding ways to kill Summoner teams.
+1
Rolled an Ares Sven from the 100% completion a few days ago. Must say it's quite generous of them to give away a rate up unit for free. Quite satisfied with VF thus far and will probably be playing it in the foreseeable future.
There is probably no game out there that's going to be perfectly balanced. The imbalances in VF right now are quite forgivable imo because XII have proven that they are willing to accept feedback and continue balancing the game. This alone is a huge plus for me, since a changing game means new things to try out and play with.
Yeah Summoners are quite imbalanced right now, but I don't foresee that it will be difficult to bring them in line, and I have been having a ball of a time finding ways to kill Summoner teams.
Re: [Valiant Force] From a Dolphin's Point of View
As for the game taking too much time, i generally agree with what Xinhuan has said but i'll like to add to his points since he left out the Raids portion.I mostly agree with James' post for the most part, but I disagree with the point above about the length of playtime required for VF. The argument put forth here by James is that because other games are grindy, it is ok for VF to be grindy too, and this isn't really valid justification.5) "The game takes too much time"
Recently, someone asked me to try out a game called King's Raid sort of as a Valiant Force replacement. Like I mentioned, I don't really like ARPG. Another of my friend tried it out and told me it was actually more time consuming than Valiant Force. I don't think any game out there, be it Summoner's War, 7 Knights, Dynasty Warriors are any less grindy. I think the correct version of what that statement should be is "For some reason, I have lost interest in the game" If on the off chance you are talking about the raid, with the release of Sven, there is a way to attain at least 1.6 million points without retreating so that should very much shorten your length of gameplay time. I will be creating videos on the Raid Bosses once my schedule frees up.
Two of my friends quit VF this week (and left the guild to free up the guild slot), each citing that the game is taking up too much of their time. Currently, VF requires no less than 3 hours just to clear all the arena games as well as the 300 or so energy. Consider this
24 arena orbs - 1 hour for 24 matches.
300 energy (from maxed water mill, and various lunch/dinner/wishing well/guild chest/marketplace) - that's 20 runs of event tower, say Floor 50. About 2 hours give or take a bit at 10 runs per hour, along with doing some capitol/gold mine/dailies.
That's without considering guild raids. Or any future content like Guild Conquest. It's only going to get worse. Right now, the game is in a state where players feel obligated to grind, or they will fall behind. And if they are feeling they are falling behind then it stops being fun; it's a terrible feeling. Maybe James here can clear content and all his energy much faster than the average player because his gear and units are much much better than the average player, James might take 2/3 or even 1/2 the time required, or maybe even put the game on Auto on floor 50 while the rest of us are manual-ing the hard upper floors, and this could be the reason that James does not feel the game is grindy.
I hope i've shed some light on the subject, because if I told you "What if, everyday, you now have 3 extra hours to do whatever you want?" would you take it? All that extra time, how many animes can you watch? Movies? Youtube? Hanging out with friends? Other hobbies? Because at some point, it just feels we are going through the motions daily, and it involves repeating manually the same Floor 50 (or whatever event tower floor you can handle) over and over and over and over again for 20 times for 2 hours daily for 2-3 weeks.
I know what some people are going to say - "But sir, you do not have to min-max. Nor do you need to spend 300 energy everyday. Just spend 200 energy instead. Prioritize your life". And that is correct. People are choosing to play the game less, or just quit entirely - like my 2 friends. People who choose to play the game less eventually lose interest in the game because they know they are falling behind.
(The below are not to James and more to the developers)
The current Raid Beta1.0 and 1.1 and Raid Beta 2.0 (I'm guessing, since nothing was mentioned about the difficulty tuning in that blog post except the introduction of a Beginner Raid) are built with such high difficulty (read: Boss HP) that is causing players to spend so much time on which i also cover in part here. Just for 3 Raid keys a day which in theory only should take a maximum of 20mins, players are forced to retreat for hours just to get them done. Why? Because they have to continually retreat and try again to get higher scores to help the guild down the boss (and/or get better rewards).
"But Sir, It (Retreating to get higher scores) is the perception of the user (and the game doesn't say you have to retreat). If the Raids were designed to be retreated for hours, there would be a "retry" button available.It's because of the technical implementation that allowed retreating, the design (of raid) isn't based on retreating"
Seriously? Consider this: The Total HP of all 4 boss in the Raid dungeon is over 100Million - without even considering the mechanics of each boss - please tell us how realistically it is for EVERY player in a 35 player guild to contribute over 4Million of damage a day without retreating when the BULK of the damage is RNG based. And how possible it will be for the last 2 bosses. I could almost say that your raid design is based on retreating. Is there any guilds that have down the 4 bosses without players retreating constantly. Sorry - a better remark may be "There's probably not a Single Guild that has downed 4 bosses even with players retreating for hours"
When your ceiling is built so darn high and the only way to reach the ceiling is by an extremely low chance of success, and you still confidently say that you can touch/reach the ceiling in 1 try consistently, people either take you as an idiot or just no longer take you seriously. Brutal but that's the hard truth.
Last edited by Pat437 on Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Re: [Valiant Force] From a Dolphin's Point of View
I think the most disturbing things aside from raid problem is the Summoner Turn In Arena
please bring back the good old VF
Nerf the Summoner
bring back the balance
please bring back the good old VF
Nerf the Summoner
bring back the balance
Re: [Valiant Force] From a Dolphin's Point of View
How casuals like us make decisions is very simple, and why people is leaving this game is that the effort isn't worth it anymore. And back then, we didn't call it effort; we called it having fun.
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Wraithingale
Junior Member
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Re: [Valiant Force] From a Dolphin's Point of View
Then there's those people who told you to stop whining and use another summoner to counter the meta.I think the most disturbing things aside from raid problem is the Summoner Turn In Arena
please bring back the good old VF
Nerf the Summoner
bring back the balance
What kind of strategy game force people to employ the same tactic . . smh
Re: [Valiant Force] From a Dolphin's Point of View
I respectfully disagree... In the past, when trigger archers were the sick ass meta and everyone hated them, people fought them in two ways. Imitation and creativity. I did the former and imitated them, with variations while I met a 4 tank 1 Lucille team that completely shut down my trigger team. So I feel it's just perhaps we are not thinking hard enough yet...
I mean to be honest, a summoner alone isn't that OP. It's the combination with Aden + Lucille/RM Ronan's protection towards them which makes them disgusting isn't it?
I mean to be honest, a summoner alone isn't that OP. It's the combination with Aden + Lucille/RM Ronan's protection towards them which makes them disgusting isn't it?
