Valiant Force Forum

Just to add to this thread, I would rather fight Soju's 4 Cass team than his previous Merlin + tank team. The 4 Cass team has way more counters than his Merlin + tank team.

That is beside the point of discussion.  What I am trying to stress here is you are the player in control of the squad.  The 4 Cass meta is the probably going to be the first meta that is almost invincible.  Meaning you would be able to attain 100% or close to 100% win rate in arena.  I only implore everyone to have a little foresight. 

As for the current arena scene, we are seeing a push and pull between the firepower of archer squads versus the defense tank teams.  No tank team can truly have 100% win rate against the strongest archers at the moment.  Probably only Soju at the moment can attain 100% against the strongest archer team because of his godly equips.  The 4 Cass can easily beat any top caliber archer squad with just decent equipment.

The issue at hand is about arena meta diversity.  That's why I said I this is the first time I appreciate the presence of archer teams in arena because it prevents one type of meta from completely dominating in the arena.  The 4 Cass will ruin arena diversity.

What I actually fear is that the devs will just leave it as is and just implement another dark lord to counter Cass team, then that will probably be the end of the road for me in VF, when VF dev team will pursue the path of making the arena scene a dark lord only friendly environment.

I only implore you to have a little foresight too. 
Even from the attacking PoV, a priest team with double Resilience/single Resilience or Archers with a Single Resilience would completely destroy you.

Shadows are melee, they won't be able to touch rangers within the first two turns unless you refreshed twice walking into the tiles or if there is something on their frontline for you to hit after refreshing, even THEN, if you one shot them, they have Miracle raid set to prevent them from dying. They also get a turn to retaliate while you're moving, if you don't clean them up within two turns, they have basically two turns to retaliate. 
You're basically a sitting duck with 4 shadows that can't cast a spell until turn 3/4 because you can't touch them and you can't use your spells. As I've done the mathematics involved above, a 16k Archer with resilience would easily destroy your 4 shadows team should you decide to move or not, which is trivially easy to obtain with insignias and the power creep factor, a 20k Archer with Resilience would decimate you.  

Cassandra Magebane has 4 CD skill, meaning even if you go first or second- Raegar Magebane got it covered, Taegan MW got it covered.

Kiera RM, Dragoon Rhea, Taegan MW, Magebane Cassandra, Merlin Warlock.
Any trigger teams with Resilience can rape them. 
Any variation of tank + mystic teams with Taegan MW and/or Raegar Magebane included.

There's your first mistake.  No amount of resilience can help you against 4x Cass.  It will have 4x resilience debuff at spawm.

When you employ Taegen and/or Rheagar in your squad, you will be facing a dilemma which Cass to target.  Each one of them are equally deadly. MB has magic debuff with moderate damage, Samurai will have insane amount of damage against non-tank teams, probably party wipe with his omnislash against non-tank teams, ninja can jump within your backline before 1st round ends, and probably wipe your entire team with one swing on 2nd round, and assassin skill is deadly whatever way you look at it and also very hard to kill.

But the real issue I am trying to stress here, please check my post above.

You clearly haven't been reading my post then, that is your first mistake. 

My point about employing a Resilience or double Resilience is that you gain 100% damage output or 200% damage output relative to what you would've without resilience when you're dealing with 4x Cass. 

If you go second, you can stop Ninja from jumping first, then stop Samurai from casting. If you go first, you can stop Samurai from one-shotting your entire team, I don't see what is the problem here. Not only that, you are able to jump Rhea Dragoon with a Miracle Rune in to stop their nonsense, Cass Assassin with Rhea Glad is equally potent in countering or as a general usage in Arena- My point is, there are plenty of counters, you just haven't really found them yet, I don't see why you should make such blanket statement about '4X Cassandra breaking the game' when it is clearly not true, you have no proof, and it's all straight up theorycrafting. 


Just for your information, this is an archer team with NO resilience rune yet, with resilience rune, their output would be doubled, and it would be trivially easy to deal with 4x Cass. As an AI, I don't need to say but I'm sure you know that archer AIs are the least forgiving in terms of algorithm. 

Cassandra Magebane has 4 CD skill, meaning even if you go first or second- Raegar Magebane got it covered, Taegan MW got it covered.

Kiera RM, Dragoon Rhea, Taegan MW, Magebane Cassandra, Merlin Warlock.
Any trigger teams with Resilience can rape them. 
Any variation of tank + mystic teams with Taegan MW and/or Raegar Magebane included.

There's your first mistake.  No amount of resilience can help you against 4x Cass.  It will have 4x resilience debuff at spawm.

When you employ Taegen and/or Rheagar in your squad, you will be facing a dilemma which Cass to target.  Each one of them are equally deadly. MB has magic debuff with moderate damage, Samurai will have insane amount of damage against non-tank teams, probably party wipe with his omnislash against non-tank teams, ninja can jump within your backline before 1st round ends, and probably wipe your entire team with one swing on 2nd round, and assassin skill is deadly whatever way you look at it and also very hard to kill.

But the real issue I am trying to stress here, please check my post above.

You clearly haven't been reading my post then, that is your first mistake. 

My point about employing a Resilience or double Resilience is that you gain 100% damage output or 200% damage output relative to what you would've without resilience when you're dealing with 4x Cass. 

If you go second, you can stop Ninja from jumping first, then stop Samurai from casting. If you go first, you can stop Samurai from one-shotting your entire team, I don't see what is the problem here. Not only that, you are able to jump Rhea Dragoon with a Miracle Rune in to stop their nonsense, Cass Assassin with Rhea Glad is equally potent in countering or as a general usage in Arena- My point is, there are plenty of counters, you just haven't really found them yet, I don't see why you should make such blanket statement about '4X Cassandra breaking the game' when it is clearly not true, you have no proof, and it's all straight up theorycrafting. 


Just for your information, this is an archer team with NO resilience rune yet, with resilience rune, their output would be doubled, and it would be trivially easy to deal with 4x Cass. As an AI, I don't need to say but I'm sure you know that archer AIs are the least forgiving in terms of algorithm. 

There's your first mistake.  No amount of resilience can help you against 4x Cass.  It will have 4x resilience debuff at spawm.

When you employ Taegen and/or Rheagar in your squad, you will be facing a dilemma which Cass to target.  Each one of them are equally deadly. MB has magic debuff with moderate damage, Samurai will have insane amount of damage against non-tank teams, probably party wipe with his omnislash against non-tank teams, ninja can jump within your backline before 1st round ends, and probably wipe your entire team with one swing on 2nd round, and assassin skill is deadly whatever way you look at it and also very hard to kill.

But the real issue I am trying to stress here, please check my post above.

You clearly haven't been reading my post then, that is your first mistake. 

My point about employing a Resilience or double Resilience is that you gain 100% damage output or 200% damage output relative to what you would've without resilience when you're dealing with 4x Cass. 

If you go second, you can stop Ninja from jumping first, then stop Samurai from casting. If you go first, you can stop Samurai from one-shotting your entire team, I don't see what is the problem here. Not only that, you are able to jump Rhea Dragoon with a Miracle Rune in to stop their nonsense, Cass Assassin with Rhea Glad is equally potent in countering or as a general usage in Arena- My point is, there are plenty of counters, you just haven't really found them yet, I don't see why you should make such blanket statement about '4X Cassandra breaking the game' when it is clearly not true, you have no proof, and it's all straight up theorycrafting. 


Just for your information, this is an archer team with NO resilience rune yet, with resilience rune, their output would be doubled, and it would be trivially easy to deal with 4x Cass. As an AI, I don't need to say but I'm sure you know that archer AIs are the least forgiving in terms of algorithm. 

Thank you then  i forgot about rhea dragon & Rhea Galadi, & also forgot that archer using miracle, you really enlight me, but like i said before i don't have any descent archer skill so i can't try it, & u also misunderstood me, when "i said no play" i mean that's for my squad , but still i have a question how many play u do to have advantage in ur favor?, is he still can using his skill before u beat him?, if she can which cassandra use her skill first?, the magebane or the clone one?, bcs in my experience the first cassandra that will using her skill is not always the same. & this is the most important question, how do u exhaust the 80% reduction as u state above u don't use resi rune skill yet?. Pls give ur insight, thank you in advance

I really love arena, that's why i always search & learn of possibility, that's what make vf a good game in my point view till now.

but once again thank you for your healthy response

Just to add to this thread, I would rather fight Soju's 4 Cass team than his previous Merlin + tank team. The 4 Cass team has way more counters than his Merlin + tank team.

That is beside the point of discussion.  What I am trying to stress here is you are the player in control of the squad.  The 4 Cass meta is the probably going to be the first meta that is almost invincible.  Meaning you would be able to attain 100% or close to 100% win rate in arena.  I only implore everyone to have a little foresight. 

As for the current arena scene, we are seeing a push and pull between the firepower of archer squads versus the defense tank teams.  No tank team can truly have 100% win rate against the strongest archers at the moment.  Probably only Soju at the moment can attain 100% against the strongest archer team because of his godly equips.  The 4 Cass can easily beat any top caliber archer squad with just decent equipment.

There's your first mistake.  No amount of resilience can help you against 4x Cass.  It will have 4x resilience debuff at spawm.

When you employ Taegen and/or Rheagar in your squad, you will be facing a dilemma which Cass to target.  Each one of them are equally deadly. MB has magic debuff with moderate damage, Samurai will have insane amount of damage against non-tank teams, probably party wipe with his omnislash against non-tank teams, ninja can jump within your backline before 1st round ends, and probably wipe your entire team with one swing on 2nd round, and assassin skill is deadly whatever way you look at it and also very hard to kill.

But the real issue I am trying to stress here, please check my post above.

You clearly haven't been reading my post then, that is your first mistake. 

My point about employing a Resilience or double Resilience is that you gain 100% damage output or 200% damage output relative to what you would've without resilience when you're dealing with 4x Cass. 

If you go second, you can stop Ninja from jumping first, then stop Samurai from casting. If you go first, you can stop Samurai from one-shotting your entire team, I don't see what is the problem here. Not only that, you are able to jump Rhea Dragoon with a Miracle Rune in to stop their nonsense, Cass Assassin with Rhea Glad is equally potent in countering or as a general usage in Arena- My point is, there are plenty of counters, you just haven't really found them yet, I don't see why you should make such blanket statement about '4X Cassandra breaking the game' when it is clearly not true, you have no proof, and it's all straight up theorycrafting. 


Just for your information, this is an archer team with NO resilience rune yet, with resilience rune, their output would be doubled, and it would be trivially easy to deal with 4x Cass. As an AI, I don't need to say but I'm sure you know that archer AIs are the least forgiving in terms of algorithm. 

Ok. I missed about the resilience strategy, but still, this entire argument is all about 'Meta' formations and transformations, which your argument somehow fail to cover.  No archer squad will use resilience rune to mitigate 20% debuff from Cassandra, it's just overall counterproductive.  The sample strategies you have given are too peculiar and will drown in the overall arena meta.

And like I said and I have been stressing it over and over again, this argument is about the player controlling the team.  Arena metas are determined by building a squad that has the best overall chance against the entire server against all the variety of squads at a given time.  It's about building a team that will have the best win ratio for the entire season, and it has been proven time and again, Soju has always been a trendsetter with arena Metas.

You clearly haven't been reading my post then, that is your first mistake. 

My point about employing a Resilience or double Resilience is that you gain 100% damage output or 200% damage output relative to what you would've without resilience when you're dealing with 4x Cass. 

If you go second, you can stop Ninja from jumping first, then stop Samurai from casting. If you go first, you can stop Samurai from one-shotting your entire team, I don't see what is the problem here. Not only that, you are able to jump Rhea Dragoon with a Miracle Rune in to stop their nonsense, Cass Assassin with Rhea Glad is equally potent in countering or as a general usage in Arena- My point is, there are plenty of counters, you just haven't really found them yet, I don't see why you should make such blanket statement about '4X Cassandra breaking the game' when it is clearly not true, you have no proof, and it's all straight up theorycrafting. 


Just for your information, this is an archer team with NO resilience rune yet, with resilience rune, their output would be doubled, and it would be trivially easy to deal with 4x Cass. As an AI, I don't need to say but I'm sure you know that archer AIs are the least forgiving in terms of algorithm. 

Thank you then  i forgot about rhea dragon & Rhea Galadi, & also forgot that archer using miracle, you really enlight me, but like i said before i don't have any descent archer skill so i can't try it, & u also misunderstood me, when "i said no play" i mean that's for my squad , but still i have a question how many play u do to have advantage in ur favor?, is he still can using his skill before u beat him?, if she can which cassandra use her skill first?, the magebane or the clone one?, bcs in my experience the first cassandra that will using her skill is not always the same. & this is the most important question, how do u exhaust the 80% reduction as u state above u don't use resi rune skill yet?. Pls give ur insight, thank you in advance

I really love arena, that's why i always search & learn of possibility, that's what make vf a good game in my point view till now.

but once again thank you for your healthy response

That was my screenshot. Just use Vivi and Kane's aura to silent/stun any Cass that have skill up and yet to move. I played 4 friendly match against soju and won all of them.

You clearly haven't been reading my post then, that is your first mistake. 

My point about employing a Resilience or double Resilience is that you gain 100% damage output or 200% damage output relative to what you would've without resilience when you're dealing with 4x Cass. 

If you go second, you can stop Ninja from jumping first, then stop Samurai from casting. If you go first, you can stop Samurai from one-shotting your entire team, I don't see what is the problem here. Not only that, you are able to jump Rhea Dragoon with a Miracle Rune in to stop their nonsense, Cass Assassin with Rhea Glad is equally potent in countering or as a general usage in Arena- My point is, there are plenty of counters, you just haven't really found them yet, I don't see why you should make such blanket statement about '4X Cassandra breaking the game' when it is clearly not true, you have no proof, and it's all straight up theorycrafting. 


Just for your information, this is an archer team with NO resilience rune yet, with resilience rune, their output would be doubled, and it would be trivially easy to deal with 4x Cass. As an AI, I don't need to say but I'm sure you know that archer AIs are the least forgiving in terms of algorithm. 

Ok. I missed about the resilience strategy, but still, this entire argument is all about 'Meta' formations and transformations, which your argument somehow fail to cover.  No archer squad will use resilience rune to mitigate 20% debuff from Cassandra, it's just overall counterproductive.  The sample strategies you have given are too peculiar and will drown in the overall arena meta.

And like I said and I have been stressing it over and over again, this argument is about the player controlling the team.  Arena metas are determined by building a squad that has the best overall chance against the entire server against all the variety of squads at a given time.  It's about building a team that will have the best win ratio for the entire season, and it has been proven time and again, Soju has always been a trendsetter with arena Metas.

Why stressing about 4 Cassandra? Arena is so 1-sided because your opponent is controlled by AI.  AI do shitty things such as moving your Shizu Ass to capture tiles in the 1st turn instead of attacking with rangers, or using a Gwen GS to summon a pet instead of attacking. You only need a tank/mage team with decent defense to win against ranger team.

If you talk about real-time arena which might(?) be introduced in the future, 4 Cassandra is no threat to rangers unless they somehow walk to close the gap then refresh with raid set to setup to whack next turn. If that happens the ranger user can attempt to knockback with a Cybella GR aura or use Kane GR aura to stun. Similarly if the Cassandras skills are up you can silent with Vivi's aura or stun with Kane GR aura. 

Talking about our Soju God being trendsetter...  are you going to spend 70k gems to summon for Cassandra shards to follow his footsteps