Valiant Force Forum

Hi I'm GraySea, your average Valiant Force player. As a beta tester for more than a month, I've decided to give the game a review and share some thoughts on what I think about the game.  

Townhall

I've had backgrounds of playing RTS previously, and the design of Townhall really bugs me. First off it doesn't scale off what a player should be getting. It doesn't help the player at its level. Why do we need to max everything to upgrade Town Hall? There's a few threads similar to this floating around so we can reference to them if you want.

An example would be Armoury -- when I reached the point when I could craft a 4* guardian armour, my Town Hall is level 15 but my account level is 57. I haven't even able to clear Legendary for the required materials, and therefore the Armoury was a waste of gold to build. I hit a roadblock and I could not progress. It serves no purpose other than to occupy a plot so I can upgrade my Town Hall for further buildings. 

And in a grander scheme, people mostly just upgrade for the sake of getting gem cavern/strike tower/wishing well etc. People probably will never have uses for Armoury or Salvage Altar. I'm fine with a Weapon Forge starting low level but at least let me use time and gold as currency progress to the point where it's on par of my personal level. I had been keeping 3* weapons to forge but I still couldn't upgrade it to make use of it since I have to wait for Town Hall to upgrade. This is overall very inefficient and impractical. This reflect the design flaw where if we decide to spend on progress our roadblock, Armoury ends up being useless, because we already spent for the armour we wanted to get anyway.

Another problem is that it will be a waste for those who do not utilise this section of the Town, due to how it is only optional whether you choose to use these buildings for your further advancement. 

One solution is to unhook the level of the building from Town Hall, while still retaining unlockables. What I mean is that I would like to build a level 10 gold mine at an exponential price in gold and time (preferably scale with player level), but if I want to get further buildings I'd have to unlock by upgrading Town Hall. That way we will all get what we want -- have efficiency and have more freedom to plan what we want in our Towns, and at the same time still provide a legit source of gold sink due to the exponential factor. 

As I've also mentioned in one of my forum posts, I really want the Town Buildings to have more elaborate descriptions of what they intend to be. I've been hearing my friends asking each other x or y? And it just seems to me people are unable to make a decision based on the description alone. I don't really need a very detailed guide on what they do, but the game should be playable without any use of external/community guides. Any game should do that, and I'm disappointed that the Town overall is lacking in that. It just seems to me the game designers didn't discuss with each other how to make the mechanics of the town flow with the actual progression of the player. But since this is CBT I'm hopeful to see more changes on that.



Stats - MAG

This is more towards Arena but applicable to PVE. I'm going to go straight to the point and address the most annoying thing I have to deal with: Why is MAG responsible for both M-offensive and M-defensive purposes, while ATK doesn't? The more damage a mage does, the less vulnerable their M-defensive capabilities are -- this doesn't sound logical to me. Are we supposed to have no reliable way to counter mystics? First of all they're already automatically kiting all melee units, which in a turn-based system is make or break. And to be able to build on ATK to get enough damage and crits for them we have no capacity to build MAG. Not to mention since their range is unlimited, they can be placed in backline, adding in lane reduction (which is exponential, btw). Is it just me or none of this makes sense? Yes there are mechanics to counter them but it's not quite as reliable, unless we go for an earlier turn silence, which promotes the rise of Isabella Invoker meta. Is there more to look forward in the future that MAG wouldn't be so overwhelming? I'm able to wait and see changes on this.

Stats - CRIT

CRIT is the most potent stats in the game atm, and I think a few of the people around here have reversed engineer enough to figure that CRIT means crit chance and at least 1.5x damage of ATK. However what I don't understand is why at high amount of crit (<3000) our crit rate still doesnt feel more than 80%. 

I've conducted test with a 1800 CRIT Sharpshooter-Cybella (Kratos), and I put her next to an Invoker Isabella, and have her kill the whole room of mobs in Aaria's event, normal 3-3 last stage, which has 6 mobs and 1 boss. Isabella will proc 6 Assault Killblow triggers on Cybella to kill the boss. It's about more or less 100 normal attacks of sample size. And the results were 50%-60% crit chance. My friend conducted another test with his Royal Huntsmen-Kane (Hera) at at least 2.7k CRIT, has less impressive results (at 30+ normal attacks). The only conclusion me and my guildies come up with is that whilst CRIT is potent it has diminishing returns and less reliable than straight up ATK stats, which leads to..

CRIT auras being less impressive than other auras with the similar effect. We have to RNG(Crit) -> RNG(chance of trigger), which I think is quite unreliable, compared to 100% Assault Killblow or Persistent auras. Which definitely affect people's choice on what to go for in their job tree selection.

And it also lead to CRIT faith being less desireable (for me) than Ares or Zeus, as they provide other more consistent stats such as ATK and HP. 

My suggestion is to have at least have CRIT cap with actual display of CRIT chance, and have CRIT synergise with the hero itself, such as chance to provide Life Steal, or a higher chance of CC (Aaron's 75% is satisfactory), etc. With Shadows already being underwhelming in late Legendary stages (act 3-4), this would give Shadow's refresh aura a lot more reason to be used due to the Rogue's high risk high reward nature. At current state, Shadows are just sub-par meatshields due to the lack of defensive mechanism and melee. 


Teresa vs the World: the state of Healers in Arena

I personally love Lucille Archbishop in PvE way more than Teresa's persistent aura. Why? Because I have a lot of units that give chances for Lucille to proc more of her aura which results in more heal-per-turn potential than Teresa's 1 heal limit. However that wouldn't be true in Arena because Lucille Priests cannot utilise her aura and her heal skill is shield+cleanse and not party, where as all variation of 5* Teresa is party heal. Personally I don't really mind, due to the fact that Arena has effectively nerf healing efficiency. So tell me, what's the point of healers to HEAL in Arena now, unless they're Teresa Inquisitor with 2 Elementalists pointing at them? Healers in general for the current meta of Arena, are more viable for debuff and specific tactics, this includes all Sage lines. Sage lines with Elementalists pointing at them still can effectively perform party heal as well. I would like to see changes in Lucille's kit/job tree to be frank, because it just seems to me, or to an average person, Teresa/Luthor is the go-to Acolyte, not Lucille (which is not true for any other DPS valiants). 


These are the main points I'd like to bring light to the table for the developers. Other opinions will be presented in shorter description.

Things I like about the game:

- Good aesthetic narrative (art, music, sound effect, provides aesthetic narrative to the game)
- 2D designs are bae
- Upgrading equipments aren't tedious, they are not locked behind cash shop consumable RNG and have fair gold requirement to reach maximum capacity
- Reliable source of income 
- Reliable source of upgrading our teams
- Steady flow of free gems


Things I don't really like about the game:

- 3D graphics needs to update to 2010's 
- Simplistic story
- Voice acting (pros and cons, but mostly cons)
- Bad pulls will really screw you up in the game. Aaria event would be unpassable if you don't have a 5*-able unit
- Bad pulls also give you a rough start. I'm not unhappy about my Lucille start, but I progress very slowly which at times feel disappointing. The only good thing is I hit roadblock frequently and have to find all the options I have, which I'm not sure how many people are willing to go through. (Players in our community that have spoken so far sound impatient and seek for more instant gratification, as it's true for more mobile game players)
- Arena meta
- Meta that the game encourages players to gravel towards (WHATS THE BEST CLASS FOR VINCENT?)
- Unsure about how to have a substantial way of earning gems other than Gem Cavern
- Faith is just another layer of RNG to screw with our choices, which leads to...
- For the exception of Zedd and Kiera, job trees of 5* heroes doesn't provide substantial choice of an undesirable faith
- The balance of f2p and p2w. This game so far has no reason for f2p to exist. There's no symbiotic relationship between f2p and p2w players that creates a reason for f2player to work towards a goal to provide resources to p2w players. This would seriously discourage the participation of f2players, especially Arena.
- (META) We should probably work on updating the wiki... A lot of the information in game should be transferred to the Wikia as well.

Special thanks for a few friends on this feedback: Kuu, Jetto, and other guildies and friends~
Thank you for reading this feedback! Please provide your constructive criticism if see fit!

Agreed with most of the concerns above, but the healer part.

Personally, I dont think it is a good idea to have a unit that excels at everything. Simply to say thats to make room for other build/unit. In the case of Lucille, imo her inquisitor already has the best skill for pve in the game. Sure, as a healer in a certain situation she may not heal as well as other 5* healers, but some of her actives are rather unique with Luthor's and Teresa's skills cant even come close. What can beat 2 turns invincibility against the toughest of content? And that map-wide aoe charm is quite deadly. 
With the given points, does it sound more reasonable to make other healers better in term of pure healing?

Ps: If you ask me, the worst variant in the game would be Darrion (judging by comparing his skills/auras with a non variant of the same class, Victoria, which is hardly an upgrade). 

- Bad pulls
- The balance of f2p and p2w.

Excellent post.
The f2p wouldn't be so bad if they were more generous with their gem currency, when compared to other japanese mobile games.
6 gems per stage clear (all 3 trials) is way too low, and 15 gems for that tedious daily is a joke (should be at least 25).
This barely allows for multiple 10-pulls when going through the entire story for the first time.
Before some of you jump in to disagree, consider that not only do we have dupes to contend to, but bad faith and aura direction.
These are huge risks that will ruin most pulls, and f2p players will barely get any gems to attempt it.

Just a clarification,

The team is using this beta to gather feedback and player habits to adjust rewards and rates for the upcoming official launch.

So please do not despair, things will only get better, trust us.

Once again, thank you all for the feedback, and we are definitely looking into various ways to improve the overall game experience.

Hi everyone, thanks for your replies!

To reply about the post concerning Healers -- I definitely see your point, as Lucille being unique and very OP in a lot of situation. However I would like to point out that at the current state, the game does seem to tend towards your units have more efficiency if they're being generalists -- aka the more basic thing they can do, the better. So with that being said, it coincides with what you said. For example, Elementalists (all of them) have MAG aura, which is stackable, which would mean you could do more damage, give others more MAG defense, DoT, and indirectly add to heal amount, wouldn't you say that's 'doing a lot of things at the same time'? For Teresa Inquisitor, she is also quite a generalist, she performs with the most efficiency in PVE and PVP (in terms of investment), and she can clear party status... To be honest, that's a very generalist trait of a healer. 

I guess my point is -- Specialists in this game, at current state, do not perform very well in so far, which is an extension of the Teresa vs world Point of View.

I do agree though, that I like games and units to be more specific to different situation and expertise, I do think it's because we don't have more content other than 3 perma event, 1 timed event, pve and pvp. Which I don't mind because I know we have so much more to look forward to. I definitely can see there's a potential towards more directions where most units can be useful in their own unique way. 


As for Gem distribution, I'm still quite "ehhh" about it atm. I don't think it's very little, but I don't think it's too much either. It's alright, and I'm not going to whine about how I'm not able to compete with Whales because 1) it's still CBT 2) As a f2p I can still compete with people who are p2w so far. At current state I'm more hopeful to push my progression than concerned with end game due to how hard it actually is. My opinion is that I'm sitting and watching. BTW, my point was about having bad pulls, not gem distribution. I am somewhat neutral towards it.  (just kinda wanna clarify what you were talking about was not the point I was making.) As for f2p vs p2w, I stress that I wasn't complaining about the unfairness of them competing each other. I'm stressing the issue that f2p needs a purpose to exist and many are starting to get really annoyed with all the 'omg VIP system' 'omg p2w top 10 arena' which I cannot stand. (I also understand this might be the case of minority being loud and majority being quiet.. but I digress). 

Bad faith and aura certainly ruins a lot of people's composition and hopes. But if I can make my Kratos Cybella, Hera Kiera, Kratos Lulu work, so can other people.

Agreed with most of the concerns above, but the healer part.

Personally, I dont think it is a good idea to have a unit that excels at everything. Simply to say thats to make room for other build/unit. In the case of Lucille, imo her inquisitor already has the best skill for pve in the game. Sure, as a healer in a certain situation she may not heal as well as other 5* healers, but some of her actives are rather unique with Luthor's and Teresa's skills cant even come close. What can beat 2 turns invincibility against the toughest of content? And that map-wide aoe charm is quite deadly. 
With the given points, does it sound more reasonable to make other healers better in term of pure healing?

Ps: If you ask me, the worst variant in the game would be Darrion (judging by comparing his skills/auras with a non variant of the same class, Victoria, which is hardly an upgrade). 

totally agree with this point, during the first batch of arena where players haven't build ranger and such dps. Lucille excels in both arena and legendary adventure quest, now that most of the players had build up their dps units people starts to think she's underpowered due to defensive aura while other healers have passive healing aura for backlines. lets say if Luci gets a buff of sustain healing aura wouldn't that sounds more overpowered? passive healing + invincibility capability. After the healing Aura Nerf in Arena i don't see any healer issue atm just fyi healers have low attack damage, having AoE charm and invisibility is already very OP .

Things I don't really like about the game:

- 3D graphics needs to update to 2010's
- Simplistic story
- Voice acting (pros and cons, but mostly cons)
- Bad pulls will really screw you up in the game. Aaria event would be unpassable if you don't have a 5*-able unit
- Bad pulls also give you a rough start. I'm not unhappy about my Lucille start, but I progress very slowly which at times feel disappointing. The only good thing is I hit roadblock frequently and have to find all the options I have, which I'm not sure how many people are willing to go through. (Players in our community that have spoken so far sound impatient and seek for more instant gratification, as it's true for more mobile game players)
- Arena meta
- Meta that the game encourages players to gravel towards (WHATS THE BEST CLASS FOR VINCENT?)
- Unsure about how to have a substantial way of earning gems other than Gem Cavern
- Faith is just another layer of RNG to screw with our choices, which leads to...
- For the exception of Zedd and Kiera, job trees of 5* heroes doesn't provide substantial choice of an undesirable faith
- The balance of f2p and p2w. This game so far has no reason for f2p to exist. There's no symbiotic relationship between f2p and p2w players that creates a reason for f2player to work towards a goal to provide resources to p2w players. This would seriously discourage the participation of f2players, especially Arena.
- (META) We should probably work on updating the wiki... A lot of the information in game should be transferred to the Wikia as well.

- 3D graphics needs to update to 2010's
Please be specific and elaborate what type of 3D graphics you're looking for?
I'm pretty sure nowadays most of the Japanese game 3D modeling is similar to what we're having now.  e.g. Phantom of the kill - PoTK, 誰ガ為のアルケミスト - Who Moth for Alchemist 白猫プロジェクト and ofcos there are alot of 2D animated game as well such as brave frontier, monster strike.

As of now, i do think they did a great job on designing the characters and their 3D modeling. But in my perspective, skill animation looks kinda simple and at time find it boring.
 
- Simplistic story
No doubt about that, story was really simple as of now. but i do believe at least 80%~90% of the players doesn't even cares about the storyline, they just wanna play and level up. I'm actually looking forward to a more exciting and thrilling storyline with lots of twisted plot and ofcos 2D Animation when the chapter ends.

- Voice acting (pros and cons, but mostly cons)
Please be specific with the pros and cons, they sounds awful? what's your suggestion?
In my perpective i think they need to improve skill animation with some voiceline and bgm

- Bad pulls will really screw you up in the game. Aaria event would be unpassable if you don't have a 5*-able unit

I totally agree with that, I do think Some of the requirements seems impossible for some F2P. If you don't pull a specific hero that shines in different stages, you'll most likely have to give up on current event and wait for the next one.

- Bad pulls also give you a rough start. I'm not unhappy about my Lucille start, but I progress very slowly which at times feel disappointing. The only good thing is I hit roadblock frequently and have to find all the options I have, which I'm not sure how many people are willing to go through. (Players in our community that have spoken so far sound impatient and seek for more instant gratification, as it's true for more mobile game players)

No doubt about that, it's similar to the above topic. for an example "Legendary - Capitol Event" In current difficulties, it's impossible to clear without Lucille Ulti and Chain Stun. Unless you're freaking lucky and get the specific pulls, and ofcos i did 20time 10x premium summoning. Chances of getting Valiant and  getting heros with good faith is "Extremely Rare". (fyi i did not get a single Valiant and 5* units from 20time pulls)
My Suggestion is to make a Hero Spotlight as usual and change the rate to e.g. "Vincent Spotlight - you are guarantee to get at least 1 Vincent from 10time premium summoning package and Increase droprate of Vincent for this event". because most of time when there's a spotlight, it is very unlikely you'll get them. (from my experience)

- Arena meta

No comment, since they're working on arena. we'll just have to wait and see. My Defense Mechanism Suggestion

- Meta that the game encourages players to gravel towards (WHATS THE BEST CLASS FOR VINCENT?)

No idea what it means =(

- Unsure about how to have a substantial way of earning gems other than Gem Cavern

I do think there's a pros and cons, FYI i think Gem Cavern is a reap of in the game.
1 gem per 8 hours? pftt~ 3 gem per day and it cost 500k to build to break down 20 gem = 100k - 100 gem = 500k - 100 gem divided to 3 = 33.333
so it takes 1 month to recover what you spend.. level 2 Gem Cavern cost 1mil gold follow by 1.5mil, 2mil and 2.5mil. and each level increase gem regen by 3 per day
it will takes around one and a half year of gem regen to cover the cost of max level gem cavern. another thing is expedition for gem = 100k for 10 gem, doesn't sounds like a fair/good trade. (i would rather spend gold on gears and units upgrade).
My Suggestion is to increase the gem regen

Substantial way to earn gems - maybe make a repeatable quest like "level up 10 units to max level - rewards 20 gem"

- Faith is just another layer of RNG to screw with our choices, which leads to...
- For the exception of Zedd and Kiera, job trees of 5* heroes doesn't provide substantial choice of an undesirable faith

No Comment as dev is working on it.

- The balance of f2p and p2w. This game so far has no reason for f2p to exist. There's no symbiotic relationship between f2p and p2w players that creates a reason for f2player to work towards a goal to provide resources to p2w players. This would seriously discourage the participation of f2players, especially Arena.

To be honest there will always be players "Pay to Advance", F2P players will eventually get to the tip top condition just a matter of time. doesn't it always happens in all competitive mobile gaming? A simple question: let's say there aren't any differences between f2p and p2w in competitive arena system then what's the point of spending in the game to advance faster then those who don't? and who's gonna support the server and kept it running? Dev and Marketing need to earn a living as well LOL~! "think"

- (META) We should probably work on updating the wiki... A lot of the information in game should be transferred to the Wikia as well.

Most of the wiki/wikia is manage by the community, i've no idea what you're trying to request TBH. Maybe gather a group for valiant force fans and manage the site?
e.g. Every Units have different faith starting from the origin till their final stage (we already have gallery to view their final stats) , and items with different suffix and stats (it would be abit hard to post).

TBH i do think you're actually comparing this game with seven knights, i don't know maybe i'm wrong. but bare this in mind, this is CBT, Dev promised things gonna get better as time passed. Let's see what they've got for us. Chill~

@tackey the op level 36 zed player

FIrst off, I don't even play Seven Knights. Don't make assumption about me please LOL. Last mobile game I played was Million Arthur the OG Global version.. And you know, I'm an old school Bejeweled player (screw candy crush)...

So just to clarify some other few things: The reason why the I have shorter/point form on the other topics is because some of them I don't think we should dabble into it due to incoming updates (and I actually did write them up but it'll make it a headache to read), it's more of a 'for the record' kind of things. I just felt that they're not immediately important that I want to bring light to the devs. I cut my feedback about 50% short because I do think it's too long. I want to talk about mechanics of the game more than anything else. And it's why I put them at the bottom part and disclaimed it. 

But just to answer this post since you obviously took the time to read (which I really appreciate):

In general, I think aesthetic narrative and appeal can be quite subjective, which is really hard to discuss about due to personal taste.

3D graphics: I just expect it to be more.. Refined? Detailed? It does look like something I'd play back in the old days. I can see why you think it's alright from the examples you've provided but I just want it to be a bit more polished? I also think skills in general are repetitive.

Story: I also think most people don't care about the story. I'm prepared to embrace new storylines as well. I just think it would make the players feel more engaged if there's something more... Interesting. It makes people relatable to them therefore memorable, therefore wanna play more.

Voice Acting: A few heroes have very low-quality recordings. And a lot of heroes sound the same. It gets really annoying when I'm upgrading as well. I basically just spam until I reach the level I want. I do know that they're slowly working on it so I'm not too impatient about it and didn't include it as a main point of the feedback.

On this topic:

- Meta that the game encourages players to gravel towards (WHATS THE BEST CLASS FOR VINCENT?)

I meant that the game haven't released enough content that encourages player to try new things or new strategy because they don't need to. That to me means player can be lazy. I don't like that. What they're doing is not efficiency nor it is resourceful. But I don't think many people agree with me which sucks.

f2p/p2w: I think several people are mistaking what my main point was which is my mistake. I don't hate or dislike people who spends money and get what they want to keep the game going, because that's just how the society works. My problem is this makes people think that's the only way it could be. So far, most of my friends either only have bought the Early Bird package or none at all. It's definitely doable, but we need to create more ways to have player realise that and understand "hey, we welcome everyone, give it a try, you've got nothing to lose, right?". One way of doing that is the common 'raid'/'discover boss' type of mechanic, which will create a symbiotic relationship for f2p and p2w in order for the f2player not feel like they add up to nothing. It encourages activity and goals and end game vision. That was what the opinion was about.

Things that I didn't reply about are the things I more or less agree or have nothing to add to. However I do think my criticisms and feedbacks are pretty fair to the devs and I'm not overall too pessimistic, did I? I'm actually quite optimistic which is why I posted this thread. 

@tackey the op level 36 zed player

FIrst off, I don't even play Seven Knights. Don't make assumption about me please LOL. Last mobile game I played was Million Arthur the OG Global version.. And you know, I'm an old school Bejeweled player (screw candy crush)...

So just to clarify some other few things: The reason why the I have shorter/point form on the other topics is because some of them I don't think we should dabble into it due to incoming updates (and I actually did write them up but it'll make it a headache to read), it's more of a 'for the record' kind of things. I just felt that they're not immediately important that I want to bring light to the devs. I cut my feedback about 50% short because I do think it's too long. I want to talk about mechanics of the game more than anything else. And it's why I put them at the bottom part and disclaimed it. 

But just to answer this post since you obviously took the time to read (which I really appreciate):

In general, I think aesthetic narrative and appeal can be quite subjective, which is really hard to discuss about due to personal taste.

3D graphics: I just expect it to be more.. Refined? Detailed? It does look like something I'd play back in the old days. I can see why you think it's alright from the examples you've provided but I just want it to be a bit more polished? I also think skills in general are repetitive.

Story: I also think most people don't care about the story. I'm prepared to embrace new storylines as well. I just think it would make the players feel more engaged if there's something more... Interesting. It makes people relatable to them therefore memorable, therefore wanna play more.

Voice Acting: A few heroes have very low-quality recordings. And a lot of heroes sound the same. It gets really annoying when I'm upgrading as well. I basically just spam until I reach the level I want. I do know that they're slowly working on it so I'm not too impatient about it and didn't include it as a main point of the feedback.

On this topic:

- Meta that the game encourages players to gravel towards (WHATS THE BEST CLASS FOR VINCENT?)

I meant that the game haven't released enough content that encourages player to try new things or new strategy because they don't need to. That to me means player can be lazy. I don't like that. What they're doing is not efficiency nor it is resourceful. But I don't think many people agree with me which sucks.

f2p/p2w: I think several people are mistaking what my main point was which is my mistake. I don't hate or dislike people who spends money and get what they want to keep the game going, because that's just how the society works. My problem is this makes people think that's the only way it could be. So far, most of my friends either only have bought the Early Bird package or none at all. It's definitely doable, but we need to create more ways to have player realise that and understand "hey, we welcome everyone, give it a try, you've got nothing to lose, right?". One way of doing that is the common 'raid'/'discover boss' type of mechanic, which will create a symbiotic relationship for f2p and p2w in order for the f2player not feel like they add up to nothing. It encourages activity and goals and end game vision. That was what the opinion was about.

Things that I didn't reply about are the things I more or less agree or have nothing to add to. However I do think my criticisms and feedbacks are pretty fair to the devs and I'm not overall too pessimistic, did I? I'm actually quite optimistic which is why I posted this thread. 

I apologize for my assumption in fact i'm just guessing LOL~!
Because most of your dissatisfaction wasn't specific enough so people like me will start to think "what game are you comparing with"

e.g. graphics need to update to 2010s, because you didn't specific and gave example of your ideal type of graphic then a question will pop out. what type of 2010s graphics are you referring to, because i'm a gamer and i play all kinds of games including korea/Japan/China/NA/EU Mobile/PC games then i'll start to think are you comparing other game or is the graphic/modeling really bad etc.

But anyway i'll just end it here, Chill out and peace~
btw i also play Million Arthur both OG and kairisei in the "PAST" and my Fav Char is Lancelot LOL~! Chill~