Valiant Force Forum

     I would like to preface this by saying I hate the faith system and this mechanic in particular in every game I've seen it in and as much as I would like it to vanish completely I doubt that is possible unless the majority of the players decide to voice a disagreement in unison which is probably unlikely. So I hope to offer some suggestions as well as explain why I think this system is detrimental to the game in its current form and hopefully discuss this system with people who agree and disagree with the goal of making it better for everyone.

      First I'd like to discuss why faith matters. At least on paper, there is a significant stat difference between rolling an optimal faith for a class, and rolling one of the other 5 faiths. I'm going to use Kiera as a Elementalist +2 as an example. Going through the 6 faiths, her magic stats are as follows, from lowest to highest, 2706, 2783, 2783, 2783, 2975 and 3935. The optimal faith for her magic growth has 35-40% more magic than the other 5. This means her skill will do 35%-40% more damage with the best faith not accounting for equipment. Equipment with flat magic bonuses would lessen the gap and equipment with % magic bonuses would scale for the most part, making less of an impact than flag bonuses. I dont know what end game equips look like, but unless they significantly outscale the base stats there will still be a significant advantage to rolling an optimal faith. Using just base stats, Kiera's skill would do 5412 damage with the worst faith, 5950 with the second best, and 7870 with the best. So faith isnt just a small extra boost for this stat and a small weakness for that stat, it, at least on paper, affects stats significantly. 

     Some are going to think that this doesn't matter unless you are min maxing, but at least in Kieras case, and what I would assume the rest of the heroes cases as well, we can see faith severely gimping her in 5/6 scenarios. The difference is just so large between the best faith and the other 5 making it matter much more than if the difference were less severe. You have a 5/6 chance of your character being very sub optimal for no good reason. Now that we know what faith does, how can we make it work in our favor using what is currently in the game now?

     To reroll the faith of a 5* hero you need to use a 5* hero as a sacrifice. This is a very large cost to most players, especially when taking into account you only have a 1/6 chance to roll the optimal faith for your class meaning on average you would need to sacrifice 5 heroes if we count the base hero as the first reroll. What exactly is the cost of a 5* hero? To determine this Im going to use the arena's shop since it is the only way to obtain 5* heroes I know of that is not completely up to RNG(like gacha). 

     You can buy a 3* valiant summon coupon for 6000 blood gems or a 4* arena hero coupon for 4000 blood gems. Im not sure how the 4* coupon works, but the exclusive heroes listed in the notice can all promote to 5* and I'm going to assume these three units are the only ones you can pull. If you can also get dead end 4*s then the effort needed is going to be much greater and we would probably be forced to use the 3* valiant coupon as a reliable source of 5*s instead. 

     Im going to make a lot of assumptions for this part and there will be a tldr; at the bottom. Circumstances will be different from every person, but this is what I believe to be the average situation for the average person. The average person will most likely stagnate in their arena wins at some point meaning their win/loss ratio is about 50:50. Im going to also assume they are about halfway up the ranking ladder which is about diamond 2.

     From my experiences I get an average of 3 bloods gems on a loss and 13 on a win so every two matches you get 16 gems on average. Assuming a person is dedicated to pvp, but also has a relatively normal sleep schedule, they can probably do 20 out of the possible 24 pvp matches you have per day since pvp orbs regen once an hour and you can hold up to 5. This means they can get 160 a day and 1120 + 100(from ranking) blood gems a week. This means it takes 24 days to get enough gems for the 4* ticket, which you will promote to a 5* for faith rerolling. Since on average you need 5 rerolls to get the desired faith, this adds up to 120 days to reroll single 5* character to the desired faith. 

     While its fine for endgame stuff to take a lot of effort to achieve, it would take 600 days, nearly two years, to get the desired faith for a full 5* team, and this does not include things like Aura rerolling or limit breaking which also require 5*s. There will likely be new characters that come out in the future that people might want to use instead and situations that arise where people would like to raise more than 5 heroes to adapt to different situations. The faith system is so detrimental because of its huge reliance on RNG to get what you want from it and the time and resources a person has to commit to make it work in their favor. Aura rerolling is much less likely to give you a bad roll and even if you get a bad roll you can compensate by strategically place your units. Limit breaking always has a positive effect when you use it and there is no RNG when using it. Also games with limit breaking tend to add some sort of wild card limit breaking card/character at some point in their lifetime which I hope will happen here as well. Both these systems also use 5*s and while faith rerolling, aura rerolling and limit breaking all require the same resource, which is already rare and valuable, it just doesn't make sense to make faith rerolling so heavily RNG reliant when the other two are not. Even whales would have to go through the arena to get a steady stream of 5*s unless they get lucky from the gacha, so the scope of the detriments to this game mechanic is everyone, not just f2p players or those who spend a little every month. 

tldr; it takes 120 days on average to reroll a 5* to a desired faith

     So with that out of the way here are some suggestions that I think would make this game mechanic much more tolerable without outright removing it (which I would be in completely in favor of)

    - Make it so instead of sacrificing 5*s to reroll, we could sacrifice a 3* 
3*s are rare enough that unless you gacha for them it's unlikely for a person to have enough of them to make rerolling trivial. They are also common enough that even if a person was to have horrible rerolling luck they would not feel frustrated for wasting resources. They also are used for training units so a person would have to decide on which to use it for. You could even limit it to needing a 3* of the same class type to reroll the faith and it still wouldn't be too overbearing or too much of a burden for players. This keeps the randomness of rerolling, but lets players reroll more often and with less consequence to themselves

    - Make a new resource specific to rerolling
A new event map similar to the gold/xp/rune maps could be added for gathering materials for rerolling faith. 

    -Make it so the faith of the sacrificed hero is given to the base hero instead of a random faith
This gives much more control to the player by completely eliminating the RNG aspect of rerolling faith. It still forces a player to sacrifice a 5* and you still need to obtain a 5* of the desired faith, but there is much less frustration over RNG from random rerolls. 

I really hope something changes because as the faith rerolling system is now, the player gets almost no benefit from it without expending an enormous amount of time an effort in hopes of maybe getting lucky on what basically amounts to a roll of the dice. The amount of effort needed to get this system to work in your favor is much greater than any other game mechanic in the game and relies very heavily on chance. I hope this post was insightful into my views and opinions on this system and that it will help change it for the better.

SORRY FOR THE CRAZY WALL OF TEXT AND THANK YOU IF YOU ACTUALLY SPENT THE TIME TO READ IT ALL. I just had to get all my thoughts out and felt I would not have been able to get them across clearly if I wrote any less

That is a long post

I am guessing the requirement to use the exact same hero, makes people think if it is worth using Valiants at all.

And also a way to do away with duplicates.

Long post but well explained

Auras are implemented well in this game, and i cant really complain about it.

As for Faith, it is a nice system, let down by its ridiculous re-roll requirement. Specially in the case of Valiant heroes.
>valiant heroes are hard enough to come by as it is
>Requiring a similar max evolution capable fodder to re roll is too steep.

As the OP mentioned using any 3* unit as fodder would be a nice change, also a cost such as even gems to re-roll faith is preferable over the current method.
Please do look into the faith re-roll mechanism or remove the reroll for faith all together.

I'm totally agree with you.

For example: You have a Mystic with a skill and an aura based on MAG. But you have an ATK faith that doesn't have any utility with your mystic. Then first of all you level and upgrade your mystic and it's gaining ATK all time, by when the hero is at 4* or 5* it's too late to change it's faith and too bad because has no MAG enough to has strong attacks... Remember, the faith it's not an instant buff of stats, the faith defines how many of each stat the hero will improve each time it levels up, or at least this is what i think.

PD: So many weak MAG faiths!

Hi all,

Re-rolling of Faith is meant to be an end-game feature for players who have played long enough with the resources, especially for higher grade heroes.

It is not meant to be a feature to be used on the first week for 5 star heroes.

Hi all,

Re-rolling of Faith is meant to be an end-game feature for players who have played long enough with the resources, especially for higher grade heroes.

It is not meant to be a feature to be used on the first week for 5 star heroes.

I'm honestly okay with the Faith System as is.  It wouldn't be fun and challenging to have a perfect character from the start.
After calculating how much gold (and time... my gosh ) it might take to get a good faith reroll for a 5-star, I figured as much that this is kind of an end-game feature  Oh well, on to grinding!

Perhaps there could be a better way to inform players that it is an end-game feature. 

If anyone has any idea on how to let players know better, do let us know as well.

Locking it is not an option since the lower tier Faith reroll is not as harsh.

Thanks!

Perhaps there could be a better way to inform players that it is an end-game feature. 

If anyone has any idea on how to let players know better, do let us know as well.

Locking it is not an option since the lower tier Faith reroll is not as harsh.

Thanks!

Why not lock faith rerolling at maximum evo tier?
Example: a unit with a 5* end form can only re roll for faith after reaching that stage XD

Why not lock faith rerolling at maximum evo tier?
Example: a unit with a 5* end form can only re roll for faith after reaching that stage XD

Yeah I think this makes sense =))

I can't exactly remember if there's a tutorial for the faith reroll in-game, so please correct me if I'm wrong in case there is.

I just thought that maybe you could add an interactive tutorial for this once the user clicks on the reroll faith button for the first time.  Interactive tutorial - meaning - something like what you did for the in-depth guide on auras.  This tutorial would only teach how to reroll the faith of a 3* unit.  Then at the end of the interactive tutorial, a visually good popup guide would appear where it kind of says: BUT!!!, in order to reroll the faith of units with higher maximum stars, bla bla bla etc. etc.  This would kind of give an impression that, yea, it's easy to reroll the faith of 3* units; but now they'd know that it's not as easy for 4* and 5* units.

Or you could do something better than this proposal  This is just an idea of what I'm trying to say (hopefully, you understood what I'm trying to say lol)

This faith feature is the biggest turn-off for me. I only knew of its significance when I played with the hero gallery, was shocked and then stunned contemplating have I ever looked at my main squad unit's faith. Was further disappointed when I checked, out of so many 4* units I have trained to +1/+2, only 1 of them have favorable faith and majority of the rest have the complete opposite (Mystics with Zeus, Rangers with Athena, Healers with Kratos/Ares, and so on). 

It's not the end of the world, yes I can farm and gather the same units with time and money but what am I going to do with the broken ones I have now? Train them up to be sacrificial lambs? (My only Valiant included) Makes me wish for a wipe when CBT is over now...I doubt everyone who is playing now knows how much of an impact this feature will have on their units.