Valiant Force Forum

As a general rule, all Valiants should always be revamped time and again to keep up with the current meta.  They are the main heroes of this game, so its only reasonable that they will always stay relevant.

+1! As new heroes are introduced every now and then with slightly better auras/skills/mechanics, I agree that valiants should be revamped at least once a year. Kiera needs hers now!

As a general rule, all Valiants should always be revamped time and again to keep up with the current meta.  They are the main heroes of this game, so its only reasonable that they will always stay relevant.

+1! As new heroes are introduced every now and then with slightly better auras/skills/mechanics, I agree that valiants should be revamped at least once a year. Kiera needs hers now!

I don't think the developers necessarily need to do that. I think giving them a skillset that only the valiants can do is one way to avoid the chore of reworking a valiant. Valiants like Lucille Inqui and AB are the only two healers capable of providing 100% immunity, which is huge in both PvE and PvP. I also don't see Kane dropping to obscurity anytime soon because he is the only ranger provides a stun+trigger and has slightly more power and crit chance compared to others. I'm not opposed to the idea of periodic reworks but I think it can be minimized. 

Valiants like Freya and especially Kiera don't feel like a valiant anymore. The power creep caused by the introduction of the new champions and mystics, in particular feel like they're a poor man's version of them. Freya is still at a somewhat okay place but Kiera really needs help ASAP. What about Darrion, though? I feel he's the most underused of the valiants. On paper, he looks powerful with that 50% DEF as an HD or the >100% thorn damage for his pala but even on a mystic+guardian team, guardians I see are Faye, Altima and mostly Arthur.  Does Darrion need some buff or something?

Releasing info after 1 week.... revamp during November 30.Deep breath.... (I have no patience for this) XD

As a general rule, all Valiants should always be revamped time and again to keep up with the current meta.  They are the main heroes of this game, so its only reasonable that they will always stay relevant.

+1! As new heroes are introduced every now and then with slightly better auras/skills/mechanics, I agree that valiants should be revamped at least once a year. Kiera needs hers now!

I don't think the developers necessarily need to do that. I think giving them a skillset that only the valiants can do is one way to avoid the chore of reworking a valiant. Valiants like Lucille Inqui and AB are the only two healers capable of providing 100% immunity, which is huge in both PvE and PvP. I also don't see Kane dropping to obscurity anytime soon because he is the only ranger provides a stun+trigger and has slightly more power and crit chance compared to others. I'm not opposed to the idea of periodic reworks but I think it can be minimized. 

Valiants like Freya and especially Kiera don't feel like a valiant anymore. The power creep caused by the introduction of the new champions and mystics, in particular feel like they're a poor man's version of them. Freya is still at a somewhat okay place but Kiera really needs help ASAP. What about Darrion, though? I feel he's the most underused of the valiants. On paper, he looks powerful with that 50% DEF as an HD or the >100% thorn damage for his pala but even on a mystic+guardian team, guardians I see are Faye, Altima and mostly Arthur.  Does Darrion need some buff or something?

Camelot and Fairytale heroes are powercreeping valiants just as we speak, because of on-spawn buff and hex mechanic. I believe developers will revamp valiants over time because they are the core of this game (it's Valiant Force, not Camelot Force).
Eventually, Dark lords will also be more powerful than valiants which is funny. IMO Valiants should be on par with dark lords, or they can counter each other instead of seeing how zoey is ridiculously stronger than Kiera.

+1! As new heroes are introduced every now and then with slightly better auras/skills/mechanics, I agree that valiants should be revamped at least once a year. Kiera needs hers now!

I don't think the developers necessarily need to do that. I think giving them a skillset that only the valiants can do is one way to avoid the chore of reworking a valiant. Valiants like Lucille Inqui and AB are the only two healers capable of providing 100% immunity, which is huge in both PvE and PvP. I also don't see Kane dropping to obscurity anytime soon because he is the only ranger provides a stun+trigger and has slightly more power and crit chance compared to others. I'm not opposed to the idea of periodic reworks but I think it can be minimized. 

Valiants like Freya and especially Kiera don't feel like a valiant anymore. The power creep caused by the introduction of the new champions and mystics, in particular feel like they're a poor man's version of them. Freya is still at a somewhat okay place but Kiera really needs help ASAP. What about Darrion, though? I feel he's the most underused of the valiants. On paper, he looks powerful with that 50% DEF as an HD or the >100% thorn damage for his pala but even on a mystic+guardian team, guardians I see are Faye, Altima and mostly Arthur.  Does Darrion need some buff or something?

Camelot and Fairytale heroes are powercreeping valiants just as we speak, because of on-spawn buff and hex mechanic. I believe developers will revamp valiants over time because they are the core of this game (it's Valiant Force, not Camelot Force).
Eventually, Dark lords will also be more powerful than valiants which is funny. IMO Valiants should be on par with dark lords, or they can counter each other instead of seeing how zoey is ridiculously stronger than Kiera.

This idea just popped out of my head but what if valiants be given a subskill like an on-spawn skill that triggers when another valiant or a dark lord is present? Imagine if Kiera, Lucille and Darrion are on your team and each of them triggers that skill. It might sound gimmicky but some valiants like Kiera and Lucille have decent synergy so we may never know how good it can be.

I don't think the developers necessarily need to do that. I think giving them a skillset that only the valiants can do is one way to avoid the chore of reworking a valiant. Valiants like Lucille Inqui and AB are the only two healers capable of providing 100% immunity, which is huge in both PvE and PvP. I also don't see Kane dropping to obscurity anytime soon because he is the only ranger provides a stun+trigger and has slightly more power and crit chance compared to others. I'm not opposed to the idea of periodic reworks but I think it can be minimized. 

Valiants like Freya and especially Kiera don't feel like a valiant anymore. The power creep caused by the introduction of the new champions and mystics, in particular feel like they're a poor man's version of them. Freya is still at a somewhat okay place but Kiera really needs help ASAP. What about Darrion, though? I feel he's the most underused of the valiants. On paper, he looks powerful with that 50% DEF as an HD or the >100% thorn damage for his pala but even on a mystic+guardian team, guardians I see are Faye, Altima and mostly Arthur.  Does Darrion need some buff or something?

Camelot and Fairytale heroes are powercreeping valiants just as we speak, because of on-spawn buff and hex mechanic. I believe developers will revamp valiants over time because they are the core of this game (it's Valiant Force, not Camelot Force).
Eventually, Dark lords will also be more powerful than valiants which is funny. IMO Valiants should be on par with dark lords, or they can counter each other instead of seeing how zoey is ridiculously stronger than Kiera.

This idea just popped out of my head but what if valiants be given a subskill like an on-spawn skill that triggers when another valiant or a dark lord is present? Imagine if Kiera, Lucille and Darrion are on your team and each of them triggers that skill. It might sound gimmicky but some valiants like Kiera and Lucille have decent synergy so we may never know how good it can be.

As much as i wanted to agree with this idea, i can only picture people starting to use an all-Valiant teams if it were to be implemented...


On another note, i think Valiants... as the game name suggests, should have their own specialty to show as their "Force", such a setup that boosts their ability even further when the requirements are met. So far, the only setup in the game that matched this idea is their enormous stat and the compatibility with Heirloom equipment sets. I have ideas to do this such as:

a setup to make Freya to be "berserk" all the time IF and ONLY IF 4 of her teammates died before her (I believe all of us knows how hard it is to let a Berserker stays alive longer than the other heroes and how risky it is to go with 1-man-teams mid battle when the enemy have their skills cooled down already)

A setup to make Kiera able to copy the enemy's skill(s) - which are known to be too powerful at times - when she managed to survive for a certain amount of turns. (We all know how hard it is to let her survive many turns without preparing for it and the risk involved when your only way to victory is her power alone)

The point is, they're supposed to be Heroes among heroes. Their special setups requirement can be as hard to activate as it needs to be (for "balance" reasons), but the reward in power should be tremendous... to increase their ability to "save the day" when it counts the most...

Welp, I guess I could foresee that. The name is valiant force but variety might cease to exist if such a skill is implemented. I still strongly believe that they should at least be a 'game-changer' type of hero. They are hailed in-game as the most impressive of heroes so I think they should live up to that name. 

What if they're given a subskill that triggers when they or someone from the team falls under a certain health threshold. Imagine if let's say HD Darrion's subskill triggers when an ally drops below 50% health. That skill triggers HD Darrion to trigger his skill but only for a turn duration. This gives Darrion HD the niche of a guardian that can defend his allies immediately. On a similar note, Kiera Ele triggers her subskill when she falls below 50% health. Her subskill allows her to cast her skill at half power(means her 160% MAG becomes 80% and the burn dmg is halved) immediately. This means rangers wouldn't be so happy firing arrows at her like they do now, especially when that 50% stun is taken into consideration. Lucille AB could cast an immunity on an ally when he/she drops below 50% but that immunity lasts only for one turn. These are only some of the things I thought of but it once these are implemented, I think they can now easily be regarded as Valiants again. I don't think this makes them broken but just really solid with their role.

It is great that they are revamping keira but i just hope its not as underwhelming as the valiant revamp last time. Keira MW and warlock was a miracle sighting rarer than a shiny perfect 6IV pokemon. RM is used not for damage but knock back. Elementalist was basically a mystic lover pipe dream it could be useful in arena. The above suggestion might be great but you need to keep in mind that arena has a hidden skill debuff where all skills only deal half the damage stated in skill description then its further reduced by def and mag. So imagine a kiera skill that deal "80%" in skill description. It would translate to a 40% in arena. A 16k mag Keira deals 6400 damage before stats reduction. Its going to tickle guardians for less then 10% of guardians health and not even half of archers hp. 6400 is basically you remove the hp that any units gained from just a maxed insignia of siren. It would still be as useless as ever. Something is wrong with how useless mag is compared to atk. I cannot believe the insignia of magi main stat is attack. IS there a world that a mystic normal attack can hope to dent a guardian comp in arena right now? Are we talking about a 20k atk mystic? My 21k atk freya is hitting guardians for 2k damage. I do not understand what the devs are pushing for when they think that attack is anywhere useful on a mage right now.

There are still so many things wrong with mystic and really skeptical about how the revamp will help.

It is great that they are revamping keira but i just hope its not as underwhelming as the valiant revamp last time. Keira MW and warlock was a miracle sighting rarer than a shiny perfect 6IV pokemon. RM is used not for damage but knock back. Elementalist was basically a mystic lover pipe dream it could be useful in arena. The above suggestion might be great but you need to keep in mind that arena has a hidden skill debuff where all skills only deal half the damage stated in skill description then its further reduced by def and mag. So imagine a kiera skill that deal "80%" in skill description. It would translate to a 40% in arena. A 16k mag Keira deals 6400 damage before stats reduction. Its going to tickle guardians for less then 10% of guardians health and not even half of archers hp. 6400 is basically you remove the hp that any units gained from just a maxed insignia of siren. It would still be as useless as ever. Something is wrong with how useless mag is compared to atk. I cannot believe the insignia of magi main stat is attack. IS there a world that a mystic normal attack can hope to dent a guardian comp in arena right now? Are we talking about a 20k atk mystic? My 21k atk freya is hitting guardians for 2k damage. I do not understand what the devs are pushing for when they think that attack is anywhere useful on a mage right now.

There are still so many things wrong with mystic and really skeptical about how the revamp will help.

Well, I was only trying to illustrate my ideas. If Kiera Ele casts her Sacred Blaze immediately when she reaches a certain percentage at 100% efficiency, I think rangers will be hugely afraid of her, especially if she's using the raid set with Miracle. They can't even freely target one of her teammates in that case because if the rangers kill somebody and continue the trigger fest, GG. 

On a side note, the devs should just make skills have 100% damage on Guardians and 50% on everybody else. That'd make guardians more susceptible to skill damage. The only ones I can see wiping a guardian in one hit is Ele merlin and Ele Ellis, anyway. And maybe some champions, I guess.

I don't mean to be pessimistic...

but as long as attack triggers remain the best way to overcome higher difficulty content, skill cast-type mystic won't ever see the light of the day where they stand on an even ground as other classes like the archers, shadows, and champions. The fact that attack triggers can go on and on and on, and that it's available from turn 1, is what makes it more desirable than using heroes whose dps or utilities rely on skill casting, especially when the said skill has cooldown higher than 5. Even more so since the higher difficulty content like tower of lost soul, higher floor enemies tend to have skill with lower than 4 turn cooldown and normal attack damage that can kill a decent guardian in 2 or 3 hits (or even 1 hit).

I saw some glimpse of light when Merlin was released. The warlock skill theoretically can do what other mystics can't: quick burst damage against pve bosses. But later on, I realized that it's just a fluke. Almost every single boss with decent enough HP to make the warlock skill worthwhile (and some other bosses that dies after only low amount of hits) tend to resist it, even the event boss where she's released in. Even the bosses on JOB QUEST maps.

In the end, what warlock Merlin is good for is killing the supposedly unkillable tanks, or provide great source of damage to a supposedly defensive tank team in arena, or killing another mystic before they can cast their skill. This potential tradition breaker is relegated back to the position where mystics are only good for arena use..

I get that like some games, caster type character tend to fall over at the end game. But that doesn't explain why Champions can do so well at any phase of the game (look at Rhea Gladiator).

The point is, at the current meta, unless the skill/aura can provide some utility toward attack triggers, don't expect it to be widely used. For example, Nimue is basically just a ranged champion if not for her aura capable of attack triggering other units, and that her skill support archers who rely mostly on critical to attack trigger.

The second point is, unless there is a hard limit on how many times a character attack trigger aura can activates (not in the form of an enemy counter, but in the character themselves; like what they did to sven berserker's wyvern, but less fatal), all the reworks on other less used heroes will be for naught.

If you say the contents will be a lot harder without those multiple attack triggers, yes it is. But it's also developer's responsibility to balance down the difficulty of the contents made with unlimited attack trigger in mind IF one day they decide to finally go this path. If you say raids will go longer than usual, yes it is. But the raid duration is already 2 weeks long and developer can always adjust the HP amount in order to conform with this kind of change. This way the developer won't even need to worry about things like SDD squad (in whatever form they are) ruining their hard thought out (supposedly) epic encounters.

I don't hate the attack trigger system, in that it shortened and simplify the gameplay. But the latter reason is what makes me feels a bit dejected that a supposedly strategy-filled game is simplified to be how fast you can churn out damage. Yes, you can say that that one also need strategy, but it's a bit jarring when it's the only viable strategy..
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BUT THEN, I think it's useless to rant about this. Less used heroes will become insignias anyway. So there is really no point in defending them...
so.. yeah.. consider the previous part as a random rant.
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ANYWAY, in the topic of Kiera's revamp, I think it will be justified for her skill to have similar cd with the newer mystics' skills. At current situation, VF has grown into a game of speed afterall. The faster a character being able to churn out their utility/dps, the better. The newer mystics has this in their arsenal, making them more useful in arena, though, unfortunately, still not that important for pve use.

We already have the example of quick CD skill mystic in Zoey, Elis, and Rem. Using at least Elis and Rem as template should be fine. Zoey, being a specific only-obtainable-through-money hero, has slight justification to be slightly better than Kiera.