Valiant Force Forum

I see my boy on this thread ayyyyyeee, shoutout jenoss

Top ranked player OVERPOWERS tanker, not counter them.

I already countered these tanker cancer with my double champion which theoritically countered them by class. It doesnt work that way on the arena though.

OKAY. So I need to build a team to counter them then?

so I need to counter team, but all you cancer team user can use your cancer team REGARDLESS of the opponents because tanks can really abuse the current arena set up? lol.

I can assure all these people use the cancer v.1 team aka double tanker + 3 filler squad.

get outta here.

Well, thats true and I totally disagree with the statement that says champion is a counter to guardian. They all said Berserker Vincent can OHKO the tanks, I have never seen that happen to any well geared tank. And most people upgrade their attackers first not their tanks, you are probably right about the "overpower" part of it.
So, lets assume that an equally well gear tank CANNOT be OHKO by a champion, what about swapper/displacement tactic that works even better? You still think the guardian need to be nerfed?

so what is? mystic? lol with the pitiful damage they do now, nah. What? Rangers? they cant ohko tanks without using the skill. they might if they overpower them. Maybe healer then.
The thing about tankers, is that once you failed to kill it in one or the first wave, it's over. Just like cancer. ayy

Kai or switch position heroes works on some variation of the cancer squad. with kai filling one of five heroes in a squad, you lose some offensive points. meaning even harder time against double tanker squad. not to mention the lack of defense kai has, meaning he will be targeted by ranger/mages more often, dies even faster.

Aura Knockback? simple enough, you dont proc, they gain points, you rely on rng for that, it will cost you.

Mage knockback, same shit like kai, no defense, more targeted blablabla
BK Vic/ BK Darrion has a moderately fast skill cooldown, meaning, she will kill kai or mages with knockback before they go to work.

I dont only play arena to win, but to have fun. I dont want to use it, the passiveness will eat me from inside and will be bored, and leave the game, Just like cancer ayyy

EZ

Dammit man, I'm actually laughing reading this, alright, fact check time.
"Once you fail to kill it in the first wave, it's over, just like cancer." - This is so funny in so many levels, seriously, for someone that keeps using the word cancer, I don't think you know much about it. You need numerous sessions to get rid of cancer cells, not just 1, and there are 4 stages of cancer, in which the first and second stage are still pretty curable. Anyway, game play wise, WHY do you insist on killing the tanks? Just occupy the spot before they do, seriously, they can't deal much damage to whoever is in the flag spot. 

Knockback- There are skills, active skils, that provide guaranteed knock back in PVP, no luck required.

Ninja Kai- They have tanks, their fire power is weaker to begin with, his skill takes 4 turns to charge, which is lower than BK Victoria's skill, and he gets stealth for 2 turns, which makes him untargetable.

Mage knockback- From what you said, I'm assuming that you don't know putting units in the backrow decrease damage received by a significant amount? Or is the idea of putting units in the back a new concept for you?

BK Victoria/Darrion- At this point I'm pretty sure you're trolling cause apparently you didn't even bother to compare the skill cool down time of Kai and the BKs. 

"I dont only play arena to win, but to have fun. I dont want to use it, the passiveness will eat me from inside and will be bored, and leave the game, Just like cancer ayyy" - In other words: "I wanna have fun, but losing isn't fun, and the way to win isn't fun, so you guys better change it to my way of fun, also, I have no idea how cancer works." 

Well, thats true and I totally disagree with the statement that says champion is a counter to guardian. They all said Berserker Vincent can OHKO the tanks, I have never seen that happen to any well geared tank. And most people upgrade their attackers first not their tanks, you are probably right about the "overpower" part of it.
So, lets assume that an equally well gear tank CANNOT be OHKO by a champion, what about swapper/displacement tactic that works even better? You still think the guardian need to be nerfed?

so what is? mystic? lol with the pitiful damage they do now, nah. What? Rangers? they cant ohko tanks without using the skill. they might if they overpower them. Maybe healer then.
The thing about tankers, is that once you failed to kill it in one or the first wave, it's over. Just like cancer. ayy

Kai or switch position heroes works on some variation of the cancer squad. with kai filling one of five heroes in a squad, you lose some offensive points. meaning even harder time against double tanker squad. not to mention the lack of defense kai has, meaning he will be targeted by ranger/mages more often, dies even faster.

Aura Knockback? simple enough, you dont proc, they gain points, you rely on rng for that, it will cost you.

Mage knockback, same shit like kai, no defense, more targeted blablabla
BK Vic/ BK Darrion has a moderately fast skill cooldown, meaning, she will kill kai or mages with knockback before they go to work.

I dont only play arena to win, but to have fun. I dont want to use it, the passiveness will eat me from inside and will be bored, and leave the game, Just like cancer ayyy

EZ

Dammit man, I'm actually laughing reading this, alright, fact check time.
"Once you fail to kill it in the first wave, it's over, just like cancer." - This is so funny in so many levels, seriously, for someone that keeps using the word cancer, I don't think you know much about it. You need numerous sessions to get rid of cancer cells, not just 1, and there are 4 stages of cancer, in which the first and second stage are still pretty curable. Anyway, game play wise, WHY do you insist on killing the tanks? Just occupy the spot before they do, seriously, they can't deal much damage to whoever is in the flag spot. 

Knockback- There are skills, active skils, that provide guaranteed knock back in PVP, no luck required.

Ninja Kai- They have tanks, their fire power is weaker to begin with, his skill takes 4 turns to charge, which is lower than BK Victoria's skill, and he gets stealth for 2 turns, which makes him untargetable.

Mage knockback- From what you said, I'm assuming that you don't know putting units in the backrow decrease damage received by a significant amount? Or is the idea of putting units in the back a new concept for you?

BK Victoria/Darrion- At this point I'm pretty sure you're trolling cause apparently you didn't even bother to compare the skill cool down time of Kai and the BKs. 

"I dont only play arena to win, but to have fun. I dont want to use it, the passiveness will eat me from inside and will be bored, and leave the game, Just like cancer ayyy" - In other words: "I wanna have fun, but losing isn't fun, and the way to win isn't fun, so you guys better change it to my way of fun, also, I have no idea how cancer works." 

occupy first before they do? oh well it means I will lose like 50% of the time, because I need to get the first turn, and most important of all, I need tankers to take em. Yes. Exactly.
Ninja kai, uhh yeah, so before that 4 turn I charge dem skillzz, I die? yeah.


My boy didnt even read my post, gg to you my bro, but since Im the dankest lord, I will repeat it.
"BK Vic/ BK Darrion has a moderately fast skill cooldown, meaning, she will kill kai or mages with knockback before they go to work."

EZPZ

All I see shit bein talked, no real points made.

The first page of the thread was fine and dandy, nice replies with points. and then it turns into, stupid replies with no points made.

I have afew question before i officially sign out of this thread.

Have you tired knockback units?
if not how do you know RNG aren't as good?

Have you tried using ninja?
why do you think ninja must be in the frontline if they're too weak for damage?

Have you tried using ninja from ranged and swap a tank over?
how do you know he will die next turn when he has stealth?

Have you study the AI logic?
Do you know in what circumstances what will AI do next?

You obviously have limited resources to play with, no offense but i think deep in your heart you know there's counter pick but you refuse to acknowledge the fact.

so what is? mystic? lol with the pitiful damage they do now, nah. What? Rangers? they cant ohko tanks without using the skill. they might if they overpower them. Maybe healer then.
The thing about tankers, is that once you failed to kill it in one or the first wave, it's over. Just like cancer. ayy

Kai or switch position heroes works on some variation of the cancer squad. with kai filling one of five heroes in a squad, you lose some offensive points. meaning even harder time against double tanker squad. not to mention the lack of defense kai has, meaning he will be targeted by ranger/mages more often, dies even faster.

Aura Knockback? simple enough, you dont proc, they gain points, you rely on rng for that, it will cost you.

Mage knockback, same shit like kai, no defense, more targeted blablabla
BK Vic/ BK Darrion has a moderately fast skill cooldown, meaning, she will kill kai or mages with knockback before they go to work.

I dont only play arena to win, but to have fun. I dont want to use it, the passiveness will eat me from inside and will be bored, and leave the game, Just like cancer ayyy

EZ

Dammit man, I'm actually laughing reading this, alright, fact check time.
"Once you fail to kill it in the first wave, it's over, just like cancer." - This is so funny in so many levels, seriously, for someone that keeps using the word cancer, I don't think you know much about it. You need numerous sessions to get rid of cancer cells, not just 1, and there are 4 stages of cancer, in which the first and second stage are still pretty curable. Anyway, game play wise, WHY do you insist on killing the tanks? Just occupy the spot before they do, seriously, they can't deal much damage to whoever is in the flag spot. 

Knockback- There are skills, active skils, that provide guaranteed knock back in PVP, no luck required.

Ninja Kai- They have tanks, their fire power is weaker to begin with, his skill takes 4 turns to charge, which is lower than BK Victoria's skill, and he gets stealth for 2 turns, which makes him untargetable.

Mage knockback- From what you said, I'm assuming that you don't know putting units in the backrow decrease damage received by a significant amount? Or is the idea of putting units in the back a new concept for you?

BK Victoria/Darrion- At this point I'm pretty sure you're trolling cause apparently you didn't even bother to compare the skill cool down time of Kai and the BKs. 

"I dont only play arena to win, but to have fun. I dont want to use it, the passiveness will eat me from inside and will be bored, and leave the game, Just like cancer ayyy" - In other words: "I wanna have fun, but losing isn't fun, and the way to win isn't fun, so you guys better change it to my way of fun, also, I have no idea how cancer works." 

occupy first before they do? oh well it means I will lose like 50% of the time, because I need to get the first turn, and most important of all, I need tankers to take em. Yes. Exactly.
Ninja kai, uhh yeah, so before that 4 turn I charge dem skillzz, I die? yeah.


My boy didnt even read my post, gg to you my bro, but since Im the dankest lord, I will repeat it.
"BK Vic/ BK Darrion has a moderately fast skill cooldown, meaning, she will kill kai or mages with knockback before they go to work."

EZPZ

All I see shit bein talked, no real points made.

You my friend, are living proof that a human being can survive without intelligence. Darwin would twist in his grave knowing that natural selection has become a thing of a past. It's killing me inside, but I'll spell it out step by step for you on both scenarios while praying to any higher being willing to listen that you might find the information you need.

Assuming double tank, and I'm going with the most primitive method possible. 


CASE 1: Opponent moves first.
Turn 1. Opponent tank moves to occupy center square. Your side melee moves into side square INSTEAD OF ATTACKING. BK skill count down, 4 turns left, Ninja skill count down, 3 turns left.
Turn 2. Their second tank strikes your melee, you attack.  BK:3 Ninja:2
Turn 3. Opponent range attacks, your Kai survives cause he's still in the back row. BK: 2 Ninja:1
Turn 4: You get to attack! OMFG, it's like Christmas came early! Use Ninja skill to swap center block. Stealth remaining turns: 2 Ninja cooldown, 4 turns
Turn 5: BK skill active, DOESN'T targets your Ninja cause it's in stealth mode, your front row mid unit exchanges spots with your ninja.Stealth remaining 1 turn. Ninja CD: 3 Turns 
Turn 6: Ninja still survives cause it's in stealth mode, turns refreshes for all units. You have 2 units in the middle and side spot, ninja is now disposable. Ninja CD:2turns.


CASE 2- You move first
Turn 1: Move in the center square. 


It's impossible for BKs to hit Kai with their skill in the first 5 rounds. Cause Kai will be able exchange spots and be in stealth first, why you may ask? I don't know if you remember this, but 5 is bigger than 4. It may be a hard concept to understand, but I believe in you! 
Which begs the question, have you read what I've typed? Or were there too many big words? 
If no points were made, why did you only provide a counter argument for one of the points I've made? 

Stay in school kid, Lord knows you need it. 

calm down everyone i know im no mod but i dont want this thread to be closed due to all the insults spewing. we need the discussion to go on for a suitable propostion.

there needs to be some nerf for sure for example point nerf or some other feature but not to the extreme.

Yeah, I probably went too far on that last post, sorry. 

This ride is a bit too intense for me so I'm checking out of the thread, good luck man. 

calm down everyone i know im no mod but i dont want this thread to be closed due to all the insults spewing. we need the discussion to go on for a suitable propostion.

there needs to be some nerf for sure for example point nerf or some other feature but not to the extreme.

The moment when you realize, i've foresee this problem around 1~2 month ago and already posted suggestion.
But now after knowing and using swap and knockback units, i hold back. obviously there's always a counter pick, if you don't adjust according to meta. people will create a thread like this, no suggestion and keep complaining.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=532

to break: no prob dude we get angry sometimes and overdo it much like how i felt when i made that reply in that mystic topic. i didnt do enough research and that's my fall. it means we are passionate about the game.

to tackey: we now know why they call you a 'sage' heh. well read on that topic. agree with almost all of em.

the tackle guy said on the first page that champion is a counter to tankers. even in truth it is not, havent seen he brought that up again on the last few of his replies.

have I tried ninja? from the stats, we can compare that a lvl 30 ARES samurai Shizu has like 10-30 points less defense than a KRATOS Ninja Kai. Very significant. 


stealth? it is for 2 turns, you have the other 2 turns in which you are VERY vulnerable, shit defense + square tiles, go figure.


how do I study AI logic? I dont and I only know that AI will target the hero that has the lowest defense, but precisely ask the guy below you, the break guy who creates his hypothetical match flow on his own, it seems he's the one who creates the AI on arena.

now, theoretically speaking of said scenario from the break guy, it is very likely to happen, because everyone who use those cancer team only run 2 heroes on the squad. no rangers or mages or any other possibilities that can change the tide of the match.

"CASE 2, move your hero to the middle tile" and get ganged up by their ranger or mages or even their frontliner and die unless I use tanker? this shit again? 

If ya'll havent realized yet, I only reply points that makes sense or at least stay true to the topic.


I dont stay on my mom's basement to play a phone game and troll on the forums to feed my superiority complex.



y u guyz leevin tho?

Looks like i've just hit the flash point.
i apologize if i offended you Mr/Mrs Arclaine - ofcos my way of showing respect to each and every players
I think i'll stop here, whatever i type will only be an excuses.
Hope you won't have grudge against me, ciao~