Valiant Force Forum

First off, I'm okay with the balancing for summoners. There's not much variety going on in the arena already and we really need a change of pace, as summoners are usually needed to counteract summoner teams as well. I'm eager to see new valiant changes as well that could shift the arena meta considerably if done well.

So... While I do agree that summoners are stagnating the meta too much, I'm kind of disappointed that the concerns on archer trigger teams haven't been addressed before this. 

Archer trigger teams exemplify what "overpowered" is all about - it's an RNG-filled monstrosity where your most precious damage dealers can get wiped out in the very first turn, because they really love to target the lowest def targets in your team. What's worse is that archer trigger team effectiveness is heavily dependent on equipment, unlike summoners. Just try to survive a heavily geared archer trigger team's onslaught. It doesn't really matter what your team composition is, they'll all die eventually because of nearly unlimited aura triggers. 

Sure, you can get lucky at times and avoid dying on the first turn, and eventually sweep the enemy to victory, but the fact that it's almost a 50-50 (or far higher chance depending on the enemy's stats and crit rate) of winning every single time isn't very fun. Even archer vs archer teams tend to just be which team gets to attack first, or which team manages to land the first critical. Again, it boils down to one-sided fights depending on who's the luckier/better geared team.

Summoners are neat because it does make you think a little bit - you decide where to summon it, and which to focus on (most likely the enemy summoner as well) to gain a huge advantage. At the same time you're pretty much in under constant threat of losing by making a wrong move, but the pressure makes it fun. Above all, stats don't matter as heavily, and only when the disparity between gears is really huge (like the enemy has a full 6 star prestige equipment for all of his/her heroes) it becomes a one sided match. I can speak for experience, and I'm sure some others shifting around the top 100 rankings feel the same as well.

At least with summoners, the events lend you one for free by the end of each event so everyone has a chance to compose their own summoner arena team, giving nearly everyone a chance to compete against other.

So, any thoughts? I'm sure I might get flak for actually defending summoners, but I think we can all agree that the archer meta prior to this was just absolutely awful compared to what we have right now.

They have next summoner as archer... So might be even worst.

I somehow feels that people are overreacting and stating that all summoners is overpowered (In my opinion only berserker Sven is very strong while other summoners is fairly decent previously). I do think that Summoners can be the counter measures for Archer trigger team and I still experience way more lost rather than win against Archer trigger team. 

After this new patch, nearly all summoners become close to being the weakest in arena except berserker Sven and maybe Talissa Warlock but I find her to be way less desirable to use anymore. Let's be honest, is all summoners really that overpowered? I am happy that berserker Sven being useful for me in pve/pvp and I'm not upset if I see people using summoner team in arena since I still have higher chance to win against them than against Archer trigger team.


Observation from Facebook comment, I noticed the hypocrisy towards the comparison between Summoner and Archer trigger team. Majority would complain about "all" summoner being overpowered while when someone question/compare archer trigger team they would get response such as "Just make an archer trigger team to counter them". 

P.S : There is also people complaining that Summoners is overshadowing older 5 star unit but that is what we call power creep. Power creep keeps player to continue investing money/gem to summon for newer unit.

Well, I think summoners are pretty balanced now.

Mainly, the reason is that if you have 6 units, and the opponent has 5, when you move your 5th unit, the game goes over to opponent's turn. Since he doesn't have 6th unit, his turn ends immediately with -1 cooldown, and goes back to your turn. In other words, for each pet you summon, you gain a pet turn, but the opponent gains -1 cooldown on all their abilities (which you don't gain since moving your pet no longer -1 to your own cooldown).

If the enemy summons a pet, and you kill it with 1 turn, then it's still balanced - 1 turn for 1 turn.

Well, I think summoners are pretty balanced now.

Mainly, the reason is that if you have 6 units, and the opponent has 5, when you move your 5th unit, the game goes over to opponent's turn. Since he doesn't have 6th unit, his turn ends immediately with -1 cooldown, and goes back to your turn. In other words, for each pet you summon, you gain a pet turn, but the opponent gains -1 cooldown on all their abilities (which you don't gain since moving your pet no longer -1 to your own cooldown).

If the enemy summons a pet, and you kill it with 1 turn, then it's still balanced - 1 turn for 1 turn.

Except for Berserker Sven and his insane wyvern when it triggers, lol.. worse than archer trigger team IMO. Have been on both the receiving and giving end... you can wipe out half the enemy team or vice versa in the first round, lol.

The problem isn't that summoners are OP. The problem is Sven's trigger is too strong.

Well, after a couple of day's worth of arena with the brand new summoner nerfs, I would say arena just got absolutely worse. Before it was definitely easier to climb without much trouble with these summoner characters that nearly everyone can get. Now, the only way to effectively climb the arena ladder is to pay for better gears.

Archer teams are still as cancerous as ever even prior to the nerf, able to sweep my softest characters and even GUARDIANS in a single turn even with some decent defense auras. Strange how the developers haven't touched on this up until now, and decided to focus on their newly released characters instead.

Summoners are STILL strong, the nerfs barely scraped their power. But there's a depressingly horrible change that came after the nerfs that made them worse. Before the summoner change, Summoner vs Summoner teams tend to be favorable to the player as it gives you a couple of extra turns, thus allowing anyone, even with a considerably averagely geared team, to finish off vital enemies such as the opposing Talissa in the first round of turns, and/or you can put up a shield during opposing Talissa's turn to mitigate the poison damage .

Now, however, you can barely do either, especially more so when you get the first turn. You will inevitably lose to everyone with better geared or limit broken teams, unlike before where you still had a chance to do so if you plan carefully even when there's a gear difference. If you use your pet anytime before all the enemy's turns are over, you would be screwing yourself over as it gives a free turn to clock a cooldown for the enemy team ONLY.

If this was the developer's plan to make people spend more money for better equipment, limit broken characters, and prestige levels for exclusive 6 star gear, then I guess they have certainly achieved their objective well. Kudos to you developers. Honestly you guys wouldn't have ever done a better job of calling for more profit than this.

TL;DR The summoner nerfs and the continuing ignorance over archer trigger teams, directly or indirectly, managed to screw infrequent spenders/F2P players over, while giving an even bigger advantage to high spenders. I'm sure this was the developer's goal all along, and I can't really say that I have a right to complain about how they want to manage things, but yeah, I guess it sucks for me and others in the same boat. Congratulations for encouraging people to pay more to get better I guess.

Any form of PvP in a game that mixes F2P and P2P players will never be balanced or fun if you're not P2P or P2W, unless you get really lucky with the latest meta heroes every time (hah!). And even so, those who pay more would expect to have more gear/advantage, right? I think it's just something you have to accept in any kind of game designed this way. That's why I try my best to avoid arena as much as possible. 

The alternative would be to require everyone to pay to play, like some MMOs do. But I don't think you want to go there, right? 

The problem isn't that summoners are OP. The problem is Sven's trigger is too strong.

summoner's arent op? try saying that again when you've faced an enemy who uses a talissa's eventide conjuring and doing 3 turnovers in 1 turn on your candy assed team.

The problem isn't that summoners are OP. The problem is Sven's trigger is too strong.

summoner's arent op? try saying that again when you've faced an enemy who uses a talissa's eventide conjuring and doing 3 turnovers in 1 turn on your candy assed team.

+1

Perhaps he hasn't encounter a Talissa yet. That AOE poison easily replace Kiera or any other mystics in the entire game aside from Ronan. Where is poor Zedd and our Mystic Valiant?