Valiant Force Forum

Hi there my favourite forum goers! MiloD here to share some personal thoughts regarding Hero Merge...

I've questioned the developers myself regarding their choice of drop rates and they told me to really think hard about it.

Thus I went back and did some home work and realized something pretty important.

1. The gacha rate for a 5* hero via 400 gems is pretty damn terrible (like what? 0.1%? Yes I understand you can still get 5* potential heroes) 

2. The cost of getting a random 5* hero flatly via Valianite is 15. (2000 gems minimum - 50 random heroes)

3. The cost of getting a 5* hero from hero merge is: low chance to drop + 86 5* XP pots + 2 4* +2 heroes

4. The cost of training up a 5* hero from 3* potential is obviously the best: 70 job keys over X days, with fodders to boot. You need to obtain this first though!

Then I realized why the hero merge was designed this way. It's not supposed to be easy and cheap. But yet it actually provides a cheaper free alternative way to obtain 5* heroes. You can even do it concurrently while upgrading your heroes IF you can afford it. Especially on Sundays between 6-10pm.

Think about it this way: Previously, the XP pots from Tower of Despair was almost useless. Now there's use for farming there again.
Hoarding tons and tons of XP pots previously can also now be utilized this way. If you're worried about not having enough for your current heroes to upgrade, you can manage your resources too. 

This is why MiloD as an admin felt a large tinge of sadness by the response from the community. However, your frustrations are not without reason, because releasing the feature obviously meant we want you guys to use it. Thus I went to fight very hard to at least reduce the XP required.

MiloD would like to apologize to everyone on behalf of the developers. It's not that we are lazy and choose to release a poor feature. It's that we wanted to give players an alternative option to obtain heroes another way. I hope you guys see where I am coming from as well

Hello MiloD.
First of all, i'm going to say that i appreciate your effort to communicate with the players a lot, since it help mediating between what the players want and what the developer needs.

In my opinion, up until now, the new contents given by the developer are great in the concept but executed poorly. For example guild raids are supposedly exciting for the guild members, and an opportunity to build companionship. But the current system actually is not much different with normal PvE and is not entertaining enough (that is what is lacking in valiant force, the FUN part).

And then the rune merge. The cost is simply too much and time reliant, you need constant grinding to upgrade to +15 and when merged... It becomes +0.

The hero merge is also similar to this, the problem about hero merge and rune merge is that these systems are too time reliant. You need to grind a week or more to be able to merge one hero, what's more disappointing is that you can get useless heroes in the pool. It's like one week effort turns to dust when it happens.

I think, the solution would be to cut the time needed for grinding, which is to decrease the exp needed for the soul wardens even more. As for now the exp needed for rune wardens to level up is simply too much. You need to cut it to 50%, and that would be decent.

Another solution is that VF needs to speed up the entertaining content (conquest for example) so that the merging system won't be taken as a main content and considered as just a side feature.

Having a heavily time reliant system is not bad, but not enough entertainment in the meanwhile makes it deadly.

And while writing about this I might as well as mentioning some points that VF needs, I've commented this on the Facebook group and I'll just copy paste it here. This is not directly related to the topic but is also part of the small problems jumbled into a big one, here it is.

Repetitive event, yes. I've read on the forum that they're looking into it so that we can spend 3x energies in one run with 3x drop.
It's supposedly on the way to be taken care of.

I think aside of that, the problems are :
-New Contents and Feature takes too long to implement.
'Soon' in valiant force means different thing than 'soon' in real life. It may take 2 months, or even 6 months, that it takes two preregistration to implement a feature said to be coming 'soon' (e.g conquest :p).

I understand that developing a game isn't easy, but combined with repetitive event.... It's just deadly.

-Lack of story and lore in the game.
I have played a lot of RPGs and mobile games in the past and one of the important aspect is imo the story. An adventure with your favorite character in the game to know his/her story develops a kind of bond with the game. If you're thinking of leaving the game you'd feel like a farewell to your favorite character and so keeps the player from quitting. Valiant force simply lacks it.

-Bad gacha rate, Bugs, and bad service and player interaction.

This is actually a common thing in online game where bugs appear after a major patch, and it's not game breaking anyway.
Bad summon rate is also a common thing in mobile gacha game, but also part of small problems jumbled into a big problem.
The actual problem is (again) the time needed to fix a bug. Developer simply takes too much time to deliver stability and balance into the game.
This problem is slowly fixed with the coming of new admin, MiloDinosaur.

Valiant Force is actually slowly getting better, but i just hope that it isn't too late...

And I might give you some reason to love valiant force too.
-Beautiful art work and sprites.
-Unique gameplay different than most mobile game.
-Generosity; This is relative but IMO valiant force is quite generous with resources. You can actually summon 10x once a week if you're diligently doing arena and daily quest.
-The developer and the game is still young, it may have bad decision in the past. But they can learn from it to make it better.. Hopefully.

I'm writing this not as a rant, but as a hope that valiant force can be better. I really appreciate what you have done, MiloD. But the true problem have been there before your arrival, and it really needs solution as fast as possible.

From the first time it was announced, I've always known that it won't be EASY to do. It's one thing that never change in every games: nothing is easy when it concerns higher level of play. The problem lies with how we cope with it.

While I was surprised that the catalyst hero max level was the eye-gouging 40 (I have 5 soul wardens, but no soul curate so far.. 40 was the max level of soul warden before patch), and slightly annoyed at the fact that the warden had single-handedly used up all exp potions I have hoarded, I then remembered that some things just can't be rushed, especially in this kind of game. Definitely not when you barely spend anything on it.

The process doesn't require job keys, and it allows some unused 4* heroes to be much more useful than being member of expedition army, or worse,  being fodder for 5* +2 hero. And it open up some use to the previously useless Training camp. The most important part, we can save 15 valianite just from doing it! If we lucky to get what we want, then congrats. We can use the valianite for something else.  If we not, then we can use the valianite to get what we want (plus an unused 5* in case there is something that we need to fix in the hero we need). 

I'd like to see it that way.

STILL, using this method to get 4* or 3* is not recommended. It just doesn't match the effort.

After all has been said and done, all I wish is that I can exchange some amount of lower rarity catalyst hero for the higher rarity one...

Keep it going!

My friend, I appreciate for your valiant fight with Dev for us, but let me discuss with you about your homework

1. The gacha rate for a 5* hero via 400 gems is pretty damn terrible (like what? 0.1%? Yes I understand you can still get 5* potential heroes)

 
The gacha rate is bad already, why this hero merge droprate also bad too? It is time limited resting event and suppose to be extra bonus for player?

2. The cost of getting a random 5* hero flatly via Valianite is 15. (2000 gems minimum - 50 random heroes)

That ticket is not worth except you are in need of fodder to reroll. And main currency of the game is Gems not Valianite, is Valianite considered as a cash back to a player who spent Gems?

3. The cost of getting a 5* hero from hero merge is: low chance to drop + 86 5* XP pots + 2 4* +2 heroes

Quiet costly u agree ? 

4. The cost of training up a 5* hero from 3* potential is obviously the best: 70 job keys over X days, with fodders to boot. You need to obtain this first though!

But training up hero from 3* is not random and hero merge also need 2 materials which required fodder to train them to +2 and 200k Gold(and more EXP Pot)

Then I realized why the hero merge was designed this way. It's not supposed to be easy and cheap. 
But yet it actually provides a cheaper free alternative way to obtain 5* heroes. 
You can even do it concurrently while upgrading your heroes IF you can afford it. 
Especially on Sundays between 6-10pm.
Think about it this way: Previously, the XP pots from Tower of Despair was almost useless. Now there's use for farming there again.
Hoarding tons and tons of XP pots previously can also now be utilized this way. If you're worried about not having enough for your current heroes to upgrade, 
you can manage your resources too. 

No sure if it is a cheaper way to get 5* heroes, but I agree with you that it is an alternative way for getting 5* Heroes(random).
The problem is not that we can afford it or not, it is this feature is too much resource sink in my opinion.
And about tons of XP pots, I don't think setting high EXP requirement is not the way to utilize the use of XP pots, it is just like you increase the tax(No one happy) why not take a look on the Salvage yard? I'm pretty sure people will salvage XP pots if the cost is lowered to get material and brew potion. 

In summary, this feature might suit someone but not me however, still waiting for future competitive+cooperative+multiplaying feature.

I'm not a fan of the feature, but I am a fan of alternative ways to get something done.

Personally I've hoarded 700+ 5* XP pots by playing XP dungeon everyday and have no clue what to do with it. This feature while costly, to me is seriously free of charge. I pulled heroes with gems, I have leftover 4* fodders. I have no need to reroll aura at 4* but I need to reroll aura at 5*. What do I do? Train a luthor to 5* from 3* and then use it to reroll?

Nope. I can continue growing my squad, while working my way towards a fodder for reroll. If lucky, I can even get a core hero.

Moving on to the resources. Yes it's expensive, it sounds like a sink. But it's pretty decent actually. I mean I wouldn't mind one bit if the developers continue to lower the requirements. Hohoho win win for players. But this is actually pretty damn fine. Because like what ashen says, now I have extra valianite to do other stuff.

So all in all I'm pretty happy with this feature as a side event. Better than rune merge. I just look forward to newer content as Silmeria mentioned.

@Genez: the primary currency to you may be gems. But the primary currency to me in this game is effectiveness. If I can get things done with gold, that's my main currency for X matter. If I can get things done with gem, then it's the main currency. If I can get things done with valianite, then that's my main currency.

So thank you developers for this feature, but I too hope that better things are coming, and fast! Maybe you could share with us your plans soon? We don't even know when's the next major patch.

I agree and commend the devs' efforts in implementing ways as alternative in the current system of obtaining 5 star heroes. I also do not mind the low drop rates of the merging agent heroes. However, it seems to be very "counter-productive" to have them levelled up at level 40 (35 now) every training. This poses problem, i believe, as a 1 week farming of xp pots can be burned in just a day for a 5 star hero which does not guarantee your wants but only the RNG.

EDIT: i'd honestly stick with training my other heroes to 5 star rather than burning my xp pots just to level up a soul warden into a curator. Rating overall: 4/10. Nice intention but costly mechanics and poor implementation.

Hi MiloD, you know who I am so no need to introduce myself.

1. The gacha rate for a 5* hero via 400 gems is pretty damn terrible (like what? 0.1%? Yes I understand you can still get 5* potential heroes) 

This is the real problem, the root of all the fuzz. Why could you even say this easily with no guilt at all? The hero droprate of this game is terrible. Too terrible. Why?? Don't VF want player to get new hero and build them? Many new players quit immediately because they pull 800-1200 gems and still got no 5* potential. Or even veteran players,  in some events we used 4000 gems and still got no event hero.  What does the "increase droprate" really mean? I couldn't think of anything else but a scam. I don't know about laws in Singapore but I some countries like Japan, game developers have to show the percentage of the droprate of each heroes/items in the gacha description.  Do you dare to show the real droprate of the gacha instead of saying "increase increase increase" words.  How about we start with that huh?

2. The cost of getting a random 5* hero flatly via Valianite is 15. (2000 gems minimum - 50 random heroes)

You CAN'T calculate 15 valianites to 2000 gems. Valianite is suppose to be a "BONUS" currency to player who didn't got any 5* potential. If you're saying that this event means for each 5* we got from merging you're giving us free 2000 gems, YOU'RE WRONG! NO!  And you know what, 15 Valianite for 1 hero is already expensive enough. Think about F2P players, How many months it take so he can collect 15 valianite? And then you inflate the cost of summoner series to 20 Valianites!! What next? 30 Valianites for Elf series? How much more do we have to pay?

3. The cost of getting a 5* hero from hero merge is: low chance to drop + 86 5* XP pots + 2 4* +2 heroes

You think you can rob us from what we've been saving for months? Yes, I got a lot of 5* XP pots but it doesn't mean you can take it all at once. Do you like it when your government said "Hey MiloD you've been working faithfully for our country for10 years and got a lot of saving! Let us take 90% of your saving now and give you a random household stuff. You may even win a PS4!! Whoa we're really generous! Thank us!".  You think this is ridiculous right? Yes, this is exacly what we think when we see this feature.  You know how many day it take to get 86 5* XP pots?? If it drops average 1.5 5* pot per run, and in 1 week you can access the Tower of Despair 1+1+3+1+1+3+3=13 times, then you'll probably get 20 pots a week. For 86 pots, it means more than 4 weeks! So we've to use 1 month worth of saving just for this one "Soul Binder".  There's no valid reason why we should level this up in the first place. It's meaningless. You cant even you it in the stage, why should we have to level it up if the sole purpose of it is just being like an merging item? And we still have to upgrade another two 4* fodders to +2 too. Pathetic.

4. The cost of training up a 5* hero from 3* potential is obviously the best: 70 job keys over X days, with fodders to boot. You need to obtain this first though!

Two 4*+2 units use more fodders than training one 3* potential unit to 5*. I wish you didn't fail in Math at school.

Enough foreplay, let me give you more interesting homework. 

1. How do you evaluate the performance of this merging feature? Can you show the performance of the former rune merging feature? such as the statistics, how many players use it, how many players got that square thingy, the energy usage per 1 drop, etc.

2. How is the feedback from players? If you think what you're doing is right, why noone is happy? Is "resting" week the week that player suffer the most? Didn't it suppose to be a rewarding week for player? Are these features make the game more hopeless and boring?

3. How do you think about the number of new player joining compare to old player quitting? Is it sustainable? How long will this game last at this rate? 

4. What do you think about the number of pre-register of the global server? Why?
  
I'll be waiting for your answer MiloD.

ps. Don't fall to sweettalk like from justinlyz. Don't focus only on the whales. Remember, if there ain't no small fish, there ain't no whales.

Thanks MiloD for your efforts, fighting for the players! It's really greatly appreciated.

Honestly I prefer Rune Merge feature over the current Hero Merge feature. But well, it's a great idea nonetheless. I played many other games and they have similar features and requirements. It's really good to give players an option to fuse fodders for a chance for higher grade and better ones. I think the feature is fair Cus I played another game, I could fuse 2 Gold Heroes tgt and still get a Bronze. It gets damn zzz. Nonetheless, I believe this balance is necessary, especially for Rune Merging, Cus whales can spend a lot and yet still cannot get the materials. Haha but for Hero Merge I think the whales don't really care...

However, I do suggest that such events should be subsidiary, instead of taking up a whole week though. Just a thought... But I do understand it might be really hard to develop new features and events too~

@Teddybleed Well, I see your point and there is some sense. But I think you shouldn't be too harsh either. I believe developing a game ain't easy. Moreover, this is a strategic RPG. Certain elements and difficulty must be there, else it cannot differentiate hardcore to casual players. And some hardcore players can be F2P too. I've played many others games, and I really think the droprate for this game is not that bad. If a game has no challenge, then what for play, and if you're not looking for challenge in a game, then why not create your own with unlimited currency, infinity dmg whatsoever. If there isn't anything to differentiate hardcore and casual players, then hardcore players will cease to find the need to strengthen their gameplay ain't it.

@Genez I think I kinda agree with @Justinlyz. For best efficiency I'll recommend serious proper planning. I usually hoard a week of gold and prepare relics just to massively upgrade my Heroes for MLB whatsoever on Sundays 6-10pm. Making use of the bonuses. Well you can do the same! That's actually just one part of planning in my gameplay. Managing resources is pretty crucial, using the curencies to serve the purpose you wanna attain. Just a little personal tip, if you plan to MLB any hero, just make them all 5* first. Choose the one with the ideal Aura direction and aim for a Pixie when saving up Valianites. Aura feels more costly to gamble for using other 5* units.


I do really hope that we'll be updated with whatever's gonna be up in he future. At least players have an idea what to expect in VF! Sometimes I have to agree that such "rest" period is kinda causing players to lose track or even focus in the game. Hence my above suggestion!

Can sense the Developers are really putting in effort to improve this game, keep it up! Looking forward to new features and challenges!

Hello! Thank you all for your feedback, both the constructive criticisms and of course the frustrated rants.

I would like to make myself clearer.

Some of your analogies are in conflict to whatever I've suggested... When you accuse the government of taxing you, you're saying we are forcing your hand. However, we are simply selling you a product, which you can choose to buy or not at anytime. This is a needs based sale, not a forced purchase.

For 5* heroes DIRECTLY, the gacha rate is poor, I agree with you as my personal experience hasn't been the best. The gacha rate for 5* POTENTIALS however, is pretty decent.

For the valianite cost of a 5* ticket. I suggest @Teddybleed you read my formula again before throwing me grief. I would appreciate it better in a discussion instead of a lashing. Furthermore, the addition of valianites was because the developers wanted to let the players stock up on your "bonus" currency to ease their gameplay better.

Furthermore, my point on training a 5* potential from 3* did not once mention that it was pricier than 2 4*+2 heroes, so I do not know why you're accusing me of poor math. Please refrain from ad hominem attacks and strawman arguments or I will exercise my rights as an admin.

I cannot answer your homework for me completely at the moment. All I can say is that your feedback has been taken seriously every single time. If it hasn't, the rest of the community can see it and continue to share their grievances with me, and I will continue to fight for all you users.

I thank Silmeria, Ashenwind, Justinlyz, Ferico and Alyther for attempting to see both sides of the coin. It's heartwarming. You guys are the reason why I will work as hard as I do. Even Genez, while disagreeing with most of the pointers, have framed it in a palatable way, which encourages the admins to speak up for you. Thank you too, Teddybleed. I believe your frustrations boil from a high expectation from the developers, which I believe they are trying to match as well.

To everyone asking for more concrete news regarding the next patch along with more information, MiloD has requested for permission to get some teasers ahead of time so do stay tuned!

so is the summoners really included in the hero merge pool or not?