On a separate note, I'm not sure if people noticed, but ever since the early December 2017 patch, double strike runes were actually buffed.
Previously, if you put Kane (with double strike) next to another unit, say Valerie, and you attacked with Kane:
Old behavior: Kane attacks, triggers double strike, but Valerie will only ever attack once, never twice.
New behavior: Kane attacks, triggers double strike, Valerie can attack up to twice.
This hidden Double Strike buff (more like a bugfix?) has contributed greatly to the current Ranger trigger problem (just replace Valerie in that example, with Cybella GS with Double Strike, add 2 more rangers or Snow White AB...), and the upcoming skill rune nerf is aimed at removing the possibility of going infinite.
Re: [Feedback] Trigger Abuse Case and a Possible solution for it
Since the abuse of SDD comps the whole ecosystem of PVE content has been in constant changes to try to limit it, or at least make it’s use more limited or impossible (raid 2?)
This is a long lasting problem in VF that will keep making people trying to discover new ways to keep using, and they are damn right by doing so… why?
- Bosses on Master event can kill all your Heroes in 1-3 turns and have 600.000+ HP
- ALL Legendary/Master Bosses will inflict at least two of these: Poison, Bleed, Aura Silence, Silence, Heavy ATK Debuff,
- Bosses can inflict OP Debuffs with On Attack Skills,
- We can’t clear Debuffs with consistency, no single Hero in this game can.
- We can’t heal back Damage received on Legendary/Master if you consider the long CD for all Healers
With all those things in considerations, it’s only natural that players will try to kill bosses fast and so they don’t have to deal with all this! So we are talking about 2 fundamental flaws here.
1. Balance is made for us to kill bosses in the first 3 turns (600 HP to kill in 3 turns)
2. Only way to do it is by using (and abusing) trigger comps.
That’s the same reason people went with SDD for Raid 1 Bosses, devs said that it was designed for even top guilds to find it hard… THE VERY FIRST RAID!!! Guys, take it easy with balancing, people want to be able to clear new content, or at least see they are not that far from it, it was the first RAID, no need for such exaggeration, and so we got nerf after nerf to get to what was to be the real thing at first place.
Why am I bringing this old topic again? Well, because things keep being the same. And Now devs are creating content designed to counter abuse of mechanics like Infinite Combos. Believe me, as it has been proven, time after time, players will find another ways to make new Infinite Strategies, and what will you do? Keep the Nerf Hammer happening? Nerf is one of the most controversial topics in any online game, as people lose time AND MONEY investing in something that the Devs allowed to exist, making them believe it will keep being good. Raid 2 is getting same treatment with more nerfs and people are again feeling bad about nerfs.
What will those players feel about this incoming nerf? What will happen to all those trigger team comps that people invested? 2 Turns Aura Silence? It's effectively 3 Turns, the turn it triggers and 2 more after it, exactly like this last event. It's NOT FUN! You are punishing the players for a system that should be fun at first place. Elves + Double Snow White is aproblem and they should be nerfed in some way.
What can you do to counter this?
Nerf the SYSTEM, not the CONTENT!
You can’t keep making new rules that only apply here or there, and the Hit-Count Counter Bar was a bad decision in the first place, why? I’ll tell you why…
Aura Trigger system is the Heart of Valiant Force, it’s easily the most interesting and unique part of it, and where the fun comes. What you’re doing is, here, there’s this system that can make you do large combos with your heroes, it’s very fun! But you can’t use it in every content, because Bosses will destroy you if you do. They will destroy your formation, poison you, stun you and lots of other crazy things. You CAN’T calculate if your team will hit the 15 hit counter so you can easily get FUCKED and have to reset the game. Why are you guys punishing us? It feels very bad when this happens.
Now, instead of keep complaining I’ll suggest something.
Instead of using Enemy Based Counters every time, implement what I call the Stamina Bar System for your Heroes.
And How would this work? Simple…
Your heroes get tired after every new action they perform. What are those actions?
Movement: 25% of Stamina Bar (so you can’t move infinitely with refresh)
Attack: 20% of Stamina Bar
Defend: 100% of Stamina Bar
Skill: 50% of Stamina Bar
Aura Trigger: 5% for each Hero Triggered in Aura.
After the Bar reaches 0% the hero will stop and won’t be able to perform any other action. This is not like Defend, he will take full damage after he stopped.
Even if you have less Stamina than required, your Hero will still do the action you’re trying to do until it’s Zero. But after he/she perform this action he/she will stop. Example, if you have 5% you can still Defend, use Skill or what else.
Important: The Stamina will go back to 100% in the next turn
For Persistent Aura Heroes, if they have 3 people linked in their Aura at start of a turn, he/she will start with 85% of Stamina Bar. For On Attack Buff Aura types, like Vincent Berserker it will only cost Stamina if the Buff is not applied or the new buff would add more turns to it.
Those values are only placeholders and will need some balance.
Below is an example of how it could be implemented and show on the Grid Area
https://imgur.com/tgrkh8n
The cost values can also be tweaked, like higher cost for trigger heroes (you can show the value on the Hero Page on Gallery and Inspection). Maybe make the Persistent Aura Buff Types don’t lose stamina at all… this can make some of them more valuable as they will be able to Attack more… lots of things can be done in this system so it can be good.
Why is this a better solution? First, this can give the strategy back to our hands, we can plan our actions, make diverse squads based on stamina consumption, and when our heroes stop attacking we will know that this was our fault, and we will feel good, we made maximum use of this hero to make him reach 0 Stamina. This also makes infinite combos impossible, there’s no way to create SDD or any other type of infinite combo.
Another benefits of this system: Devs will be able to make better balanced Bosses, without the need of making a Boss that cast Poison with 7500 Damage for 3 turns + Reduced Healing by 80%, seriously, who thought this was a good idea? Also, the max damage output of a squad will be reduced and similar among types of players (old players, new players and the like) so we they can lower the overall difficulty of Bosses so we can use Healers to Heal or Cleanse without having to rely on items all the time. Maybe then this will feel like a Turn Based Strategy game again.
That's all I have to say, feedback from the community is apreciated
Read your WOT halfway and got a massive headache, pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about.Since the abuse of SDD comps the whole ecosystem of PVE content has been in constant changes to try to limit it, or at least make it’s use more limited or impossible (raid 2?)
This is a long lasting problem in VF that will keep making people trying to discover new ways to keep using, and they are damn right by doing so… why?
- Bosses on Master event can kill all your Heroes in 1-3 turns and have 600.000+ HP
- ALL Legendary/Master Bosses will inflict at least two of these: Poison, Bleed, Aura Silence, Silence, Heavy ATK Debuff,
- Bosses can inflict OP Debuffs with On Attack Skills,
- We can’t clear Debuffs with consistency, no single Hero in this game can.
- We can’t heal back Damage received on Legendary/Master if you consider the long CD for all Healers
With all those things in considerations, it’s only natural that players will try to kill bosses fast and so they don’t have to deal with all this! So we are talking about 2 fundamental flaws here.
1. Balance is made for us to kill bosses in the first 3 turns (600 HP to kill in 3 turns)
2. Only way to do it is by using (and abusing) trigger comps.
That’s the same reason people went with SDD for Raid 1 Bosses, devs said that it was designed for even top guilds to find it hard… THE VERY FIRST RAID!!! Guys, take it easy with balancing, people want to be able to clear new content, or at least see they are not that far from it, it was the first RAID, no need for such exaggeration, and so we got nerf after nerf to get to what was to be the real thing at first place.
Why am I bringing this old topic again? Well, because things keep being the same. And Now devs are creating content designed to counter abuse of mechanics like Infinite Combos. Believe me, as it has been proven, time after time, players will find another ways to make new Infinite Strategies, and what will you do? Keep the Nerf Hammer happening? Nerf is one of the most controversial topics in any online game, as people lose time AND MONEY investing in something that the Devs allowed to exist, making them believe it will keep being good. Raid 2 is getting same treatment with more nerfs and people are again feeling bad about nerfs.
What will those players feel about this incoming nerf? What will happen to all those trigger team comps that people invested? 2 Turns Aura Silence? It's effectively 3 Turns, the turn it triggers and 2 more after it, exactly like this last event. It's NOT FUN! You are punishing the players for a system that should be fun at first place. Elves + Double Snow White is aproblem and they should be nerfed in some way.
What can you do to counter this?
Nerf the SYSTEM, not the CONTENT!
You can’t keep making new rules that only apply here or there, and the Hit-Count Counter Bar was a bad decision in the first place, why? I’ll tell you why…
Aura Trigger system is the Heart of Valiant Force, it’s easily the most interesting and unique part of it, and where the fun comes. What you’re doing is, here, there’s this system that can make you do large combos with your heroes, it’s very fun! But you can’t use it in every content, because Bosses will destroy you if you do. They will destroy your formation, poison you, stun you and lots of other crazy things. You CAN’T calculate if your team will hit the 15 hit counter so you can easily get FUCKED and have to reset the game. Why are you guys punishing us? It feels very bad when this happens.
Now, instead of keep complaining I’ll suggest something.
Instead of using Enemy Based Counters every time, implement what I call the Stamina Bar System for your Heroes.
And How would this work? Simple…
Your heroes get tired after every new action they perform. What are those actions?
Movement: 25% of Stamina Bar (so you can’t move infinitely with refresh)
Attack: 20% of Stamina Bar
Defend: 100% of Stamina Bar
Skill: 50% of Stamina Bar
Aura Trigger: 5% for each Hero Triggered in Aura.
After the Bar reaches 0% the hero will stop and won’t be able to perform any other action. This is not like Defend, he will take full damage after he stopped.
Even if you have less Stamina than required, your Hero will still do the action you’re trying to do until it’s Zero. But after he/she perform this action he/she will stop. Example, if you have 5% you can still Defend, use Skill or what else.
Important: The Stamina will go back to 100% in the next turn
For Persistent Aura Heroes, if they have 3 people linked in their Aura at start of a turn, he/she will start with 85% of Stamina Bar. For On Attack Buff Aura types, like Vincent Berserker it will only cost Stamina if the Buff is not applied or the new buff would add more turns to it.
Those values are only placeholders and will need some balance.
Below is an example of how it could be implemented and show on the Grid Area
https://imgur.com/tgrkh8n
The cost values can also be tweaked, like higher cost for trigger heroes (you can show the value on the Hero Page on Gallery and Inspection). Maybe make the Persistent Aura Buff Types don’t lose stamina at all… this can make some of them more valuable as they will be able to Attack more… lots of things can be done in this system so it can be good.
Why is this a better solution? First, this can give the strategy back to our hands, we can plan our actions, make diverse squads based on stamina consumption, and when our heroes stop attacking we will know that this was our fault, and we will feel good, we made maximum use of this hero to make him reach 0 Stamina. This also makes infinite combos impossible, there’s no way to create SDD or any other type of infinite combo.
Another benefits of this system: Devs will be able to make better balanced Bosses, without the need of making a Boss that cast Poison with 7500 Damage for 3 turns + Reduced Healing by 80%, seriously, who thought this was a good idea? Also, the max damage output of a squad will be reduced and similar among types of players (old players, new players and the like) so we they can lower the overall difficulty of Bosses so we can use Healers to Heal or Cleanse without having to rely on items all the time. Maybe then this will feel like a Turn Based Strategy game again.
That's all I have to say, feedback from the community is apreciated
Mathematically and logically, there are zero ways to kickstart an infinite trigger team or have infinite trigger line-up barring the use of Matilda WD, why? If you're as experienced as you've claimed with respect to the game, you'd have realized that all triggers (whether fake triggers or real triggers), they all run on PRD, or known as pseudo-random distribution, in VF's context, everytime you trigger, the chances of proccing a subsequent trigger gets lower or diminishes until it reaches a certain threshold.
When we first created Rhea SDD back then during Rhea's debut, we did a couple test to confirm this theory, when using a Vampiric Rune, you would trigger 5 heals per hit with your typical SDD, statistically, it should never end since you have a 97% chance of attacking again and those compounds since there is a high possibility that more than one hit procs, and those would compound as well, but obviously the attack ended after half a minute or so because of diminishing trigger chances, while if you used Double Strike instead, it allowed for infinite combo EASILY.
So clearly from the above, Double Strike is obviously the culprit and has nothing to do with AB SW, Shizu or any heal-based triggers, and once Double Strike suffers from the same mechanics as the normal trigger system, the probability of doing a cancer one-swipe combo in either Arena or PvE is a huge zero.
600k damage in 1 turn is easily done even without abusing SDD, this is just an excuse, any berserker you use would allow for a couple millions to be dealt within a couple turns just by utilizing a normal trigger team.
With respect to your statement regarding aura silence, I assume you're referring to Raid 2 Phoenix, Aura Silence is a non-issue since the raid is meant to be tackled with just a few final hits at the end that doesn't even exceed 10, let alone 15, there should be no reason for you to complain about it if you were to make a proper squad to tackle phoenix instead of abusing cheese strategies, which I obviously understand that you're biased with regards to this since your guild members are all abusing it in order to clear Raid 2 illegitimately and that the inception of such counter would render your guild's collaborative effort useless. It's a mystic fight, not a trigger fight, period.
Lastly, you don't need much investment to abuse SDD, you just need a naked SW AB, a naked Shizu Samurai, a decently buffed Valerie that is useful everywhere outside of SDD, and a decently geared Rhea that doesn't even take much effort to do so, and you will be investing in her either way because she's literally the most used unit everywhere, so bitch please, investment shouldn't even be an excuse to prevent nerf, at most you lose a good amount of job keys, but to consider the fact that developers would allow such non-interactive and unengaging cheese 'tactics' to exist for longer than a patch would be having a lack of common sense, as such I have no sympathy for people who 'invested' in such squad.
Re: [Feedback] Trigger Abuse Case and a Possible solution for it
I applaud everyone as we continually drive solutions and suggestions that will improve the game experience and lead our fight in what i believe a deserving better game environment.
I just want to make some points:
1.) I agree with all the statements that VF devs should be held responsible for all the SDD abuses and not the players themselves. By releasing powerful aura triggers, without any intention to create new SDDs, it shows that VF has a very weak "Testing" team. Seriously, these testers should have the SDD on their minds first before testing anything. The first time SDD appeared, VF released annoying bosses that counter trigger teams with silence aura, horrible poison, annoying bleed, and formation disruptors. As others mention, Aura is the core playing strategy of the game and if Devs screw that core gameplay, it obviously showed that they did not know how to handle the mistakes that they ultimately made in the first place. I personally dont use SDD in either of the PVE events since I confidently call myself a hipster when it comes to formation but I wished I have created one as SDDs are the ultimate to-go squads to complete every event. I am a level 109 Player but I found it hard to finish the stupid Santa Claws master trial (Or maybe I just suck?) because again, devs created an environment that will punish SDD players. The boss ultimately punished every squad then that relies on aura.
2.) Bear's Stamina bar solution is not implausible but I fear that it is too late for the game to implement. It is very nice to be honest to control triggers but then we are already in the era where Devs decide ultimately whatever is best for the game. I just wished the idea was sooner when the game was still in its toddler stage (2-3 months?). I still find it plausible to implement though in future contents (mini games?) of the game! Still kudos to you BR!
3.) TRANSPARENCY. Seriously, VF, this has been the issue since the beginning and Im getting tired of explaining things left and right but it seems you dont care at all. I dont know if VF is undermanned but MiloD is not enough to get all the feedbacks. It was consultancy before which was nicer but now, when threads blow up with hate (ehem 2018 roadmap thread), mods miraculously disappear out of thin air. I dont know, can you guys at least ACKNOWLEDGE that we have issues and present to us what can you do? I demand at least a developer should create his own account here in the forums to answer all that. Do not tell us that we dont deserve it as we effing do.
4.) Meme wars! No need to explain this.
I just want to make some points:
1.) I agree with all the statements that VF devs should be held responsible for all the SDD abuses and not the players themselves. By releasing powerful aura triggers, without any intention to create new SDDs, it shows that VF has a very weak "Testing" team. Seriously, these testers should have the SDD on their minds first before testing anything. The first time SDD appeared, VF released annoying bosses that counter trigger teams with silence aura, horrible poison, annoying bleed, and formation disruptors. As others mention, Aura is the core playing strategy of the game and if Devs screw that core gameplay, it obviously showed that they did not know how to handle the mistakes that they ultimately made in the first place. I personally dont use SDD in either of the PVE events since I confidently call myself a hipster when it comes to formation but I wished I have created one as SDDs are the ultimate to-go squads to complete every event. I am a level 109 Player but I found it hard to finish the stupid Santa Claws master trial (Or maybe I just suck?) because again, devs created an environment that will punish SDD players. The boss ultimately punished every squad then that relies on aura.
2.) Bear's Stamina bar solution is not implausible but I fear that it is too late for the game to implement. It is very nice to be honest to control triggers but then we are already in the era where Devs decide ultimately whatever is best for the game. I just wished the idea was sooner when the game was still in its toddler stage (2-3 months?). I still find it plausible to implement though in future contents (mini games?) of the game! Still kudos to you BR!
3.) TRANSPARENCY. Seriously, VF, this has been the issue since the beginning and Im getting tired of explaining things left and right but it seems you dont care at all. I dont know if VF is undermanned but MiloD is not enough to get all the feedbacks. It was consultancy before which was nicer but now, when threads blow up with hate (ehem 2018 roadmap thread), mods miraculously disappear out of thin air. I dont know, can you guys at least ACKNOWLEDGE that we have issues and present to us what can you do? I demand at least a developer should create his own account here in the forums to answer all that. Do not tell us that we dont deserve it as we effing do.
4.) Meme wars! No need to explain this.
Last edited by Ferico on Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: [Feedback] Trigger Abuse Case and a Possible solution for it
Regarding raid 2, as mentioned by Celsius. Its not the original intention for SDD to exist there. But then u got to admit, the guy who came up with bleed SDD during beta is really a genius, no one did thought of that.
I wouldn't really say " silence aura for 2 turns after 15 attacks" on 2nd boss a nerf too. It more like putting back raid 2 back to what it was intended to be. There is a legit team to clear boss 2 and that team is not a SDD team, so u will 101% not trigger that at all. Talking about SDD, the irony is that your guild is abusing Rhea or Taegen SDD on that boss instead of building a legit team.
Next is regarding to anti trigger, If u are saying that its impossible to calculate the 15 hit anti trigger, i will say u just simply lack the brains to think of a strategy to limit trigger. Back when the 1st time anti trigger was released, it was the 2 turn whole party stun. Most would agree that 2 turns is a little too much and for the 1st time, ranger team really suffered. But it was still possible to clear that using a ranger team and not suffer from 2 turn stun, just have to be smart and position your units properly.
Next, about killing bosses in 1 to 3 turns, particularly "the devs make the boss to definitely kill you in 4 turns, and punish players who try to kill the boss in 3 turns".
To sheryl, i don't know where u get this idea from. Yes the recent master stage is difficult because of that skill, but not something that is too difficult since there are ways to counter like cleanse or delay. If u think that using 1 cleanse unit is not enough, u can always bring a second one and stagger cleanse. Its all about strategy and planning.
To bear: regarding the following
1. Balance is made for us to kill bosses in the first 3 turns (600 HP to kill in 3 turns)
2. Only way to do it is by using (and abusing) trigger comps.
Firstly, the idea to why people wants to clear a stage as quick as possible because no one wants to spend too much time clearing content. This is a mobile game, not MMO or RPG. It will feel like a drag if an event content takes too long to clear. Everyone have their own lives to live, mouth to feed, things to do.
Secondly, u are so wrong about using trigger comps to clear content. There are many people using different strategies to clear content like brute force or delay team. The reason why trigger team is widely used because its very efficient and quick.
I wouldn't really say " silence aura for 2 turns after 15 attacks" on 2nd boss a nerf too. It more like putting back raid 2 back to what it was intended to be. There is a legit team to clear boss 2 and that team is not a SDD team, so u will 101% not trigger that at all. Talking about SDD, the irony is that your guild is abusing Rhea or Taegen SDD on that boss instead of building a legit team.
Next is regarding to anti trigger, If u are saying that its impossible to calculate the 15 hit anti trigger, i will say u just simply lack the brains to think of a strategy to limit trigger. Back when the 1st time anti trigger was released, it was the 2 turn whole party stun. Most would agree that 2 turns is a little too much and for the 1st time, ranger team really suffered. But it was still possible to clear that using a ranger team and not suffer from 2 turn stun, just have to be smart and position your units properly.
Next, about killing bosses in 1 to 3 turns, particularly "the devs make the boss to definitely kill you in 4 turns, and punish players who try to kill the boss in 3 turns".
To sheryl, i don't know where u get this idea from. Yes the recent master stage is difficult because of that skill, but not something that is too difficult since there are ways to counter like cleanse or delay. If u think that using 1 cleanse unit is not enough, u can always bring a second one and stagger cleanse. Its all about strategy and planning.
To bear: regarding the following
1. Balance is made for us to kill bosses in the first 3 turns (600 HP to kill in 3 turns)
2. Only way to do it is by using (and abusing) trigger comps.
Firstly, the idea to why people wants to clear a stage as quick as possible because no one wants to spend too much time clearing content. This is a mobile game, not MMO or RPG. It will feel like a drag if an event content takes too long to clear. Everyone have their own lives to live, mouth to feed, things to do.
Secondly, u are so wrong about using trigger comps to clear content. There are many people using different strategies to clear content like brute force or delay team. The reason why trigger team is widely used because its very efficient and quick.
Re: [Feedback] Trigger Abuse Case and a Possible solution for it
Ok, my logic is... If it is not good, and we know it is not good, then it IS not good. Even if we can work around it, we can manage to get through it with our effort, IT IS STILL NOT GOOD.Next, about killing bosses in 1 to 3 turns, particularly "the devs make the boss to definitely kill you in 4 turns, and punish players who try to kill the boss in 3 turns".
To sheryl, i don't know where u get this idea from. Yes the recent master stage is difficult because of that skill, but not something that is too difficult since there are ways to counter like cleanse or delay. If u think that using 1 cleanse unit is not enough, u can always bring a second one and stagger cleanse. Its all about strategy and planning.
As as a player it is important to speak out, to let the devs know that we are suffering from something we don't really like... I believe there are a lot people disagree with me since in their logic, if you can work out a problem then it is not a problem...
Honestly I expect a raise in difficulty since the insignia patch. Players have significantly more stats(and skill) so the future content will be more difficult to balance that increase of power. And I'm not complaining the fact that the santa wolf boss is difficult, I'm complaining about the way devs make it difficult. I do have 2 member who can perform squad cleanse in my team, which are teresa Inq and matilda's archangel, so I'm ok with the ridiculous poison/aura silence. But I don't think it is a good way to give boss destructive skills to raise the difficulty. The current PVE content, bosses tend to have skill that either kill you straight away, or infect seriously bad debuffs that significantly limit your damage potential(like silence aura/blind)... Like I said, we feel unsafe, we have no idea what will happen once the boss cast skill, so we have to find a way to kill it before something bad happens. And our answer is trigger.
We all know unlimited trigger(sdd) is not good for the game and should be nerfed. The question is how much normal trigger team(archers/healers) will be affected by that nerf? I hate archer team as well, maybe as much as they hate healer team. but we all acknowledge the effort of making a trigger team, it is a large investment of time and resource. And I believe a direct nerf for all triggers will result in massive rage quit...
And in terms of squad diversity... it is the real issue with current game. The devs are making obsoleted heroes into insignia... but the fact that... newer hero(DD) can be made into better insignia simply eliminated the very purpose of insignia... the current situation is... obsoleted heroes make obsoleted insignias...
I believe the devs have tried hard to bring us amazing new content... but as players asked for interval weeks, maybe the devs need a break as well... I believe all of us will understand if the devs stop making new heroes for a few weeks and revamp the old heroes we used to love...But this is less likely to happen as new hero means more money for the company. Therefore we all know every hero we already have is losing value as time passed by...eventually newly released heroes will replace old heroes and all the faces we used to familiar with will gradually fade away... like how aladdin replaced kai in our squad...
Honestly I'm quite excited to see new heroes of all classes... just don't make them more broken than cassassdra... Orz
Re: [Feedback] Trigger Abuse Case and a Possible solution for it
Not affected at all. Trigger rangers and any typical trigger team won't be affected at all, it's business as usual just like the rangers before, because only Double Strike is getting affected, nothing is being done to trigger in general this upcoming patch, I have a feeling most people are confused and are barking up the wrong tree.Ok, my logic is... If it is not good, and we know it is not good, then it IS not good. Even if we can work around it, we can manage to get through it with our effort, IT IS STILL NOT GOOD.Next, about killing bosses in 1 to 3 turns, particularly "the devs make the boss to definitely kill you in 4 turns, and punish players who try to kill the boss in 3 turns".
To sheryl, i don't know where u get this idea from. Yes the recent master stage is difficult because of that skill, but not something that is too difficult since there are ways to counter like cleanse or delay. If u think that using 1 cleanse unit is not enough, u can always bring a second one and stagger cleanse. Its all about strategy and planning.
As as a player it is important to speak out, to let the devs know that we are suffering from something we don't really like... I believe there are a lot people disagree with me since in their logic, if you can work out a problem then it is not a problem...
Honestly I expect a raise in difficulty since the insignia patch. Players have significantly more stats(and skill) so the future content will be more difficult to balance that increase of power. And I'm not complaining the fact that the santa wolf boss is difficult, I'm complaining about the way devs make it difficult. I do have 2 member who can perform squad cleanse in my team, which are teresa Inq and matilda's archangel, so I'm ok with the ridiculous poison/aura silence. But I don't think it is a good way to give boss destructive skills to raise the difficulty. The current PVE content, bosses tend to have skill that either kill you straight away, or infect seriously bad debuffs that significantly limit your damage potential(like silence aura/blind)... Like I said, we feel unsafe, we have no idea what will happen once the boss cast skill, so we have to find a way to kill it before something bad happens. And our answer is trigger.
We all know unlimited trigger(sdd) is not good for the game and should be nerfed. The question is how much normal trigger team(archers/healers) will be affected by that nerf? I hate archer team as well, maybe as much as they hate healer team. but we all acknowledge the effort of making a trigger team, it is a large investment of time and resource. And I believe a direct nerf for all triggers will result in massive rage quit...
And in terms of squad diversity... it is the real issue with current game. The devs are making obsoleted heroes into insignia... but the fact that... newer hero(DD) can be made into better insignia simply eliminated the very purpose of insignia... the current situation is... obsoleted heroes make obsoleted insignias...
I believe the devs have tried hard to bring us amazing new content... but as players asked for interval weeks, maybe the devs need a break as well... I believe all of us will understand if the devs stop making new heroes for a few weeks and revamp the old heroes we used to love...But this is less likely to happen as new hero means more money for the company. Therefore we all know every hero we already have is losing value as time passed by...eventually newly released heroes will replace old heroes and all the faces we used to familiar with will gradually fade away... like how aladdin replaced kai in our squad...
Honestly I'm quite excited to see new heroes of all classes... just don't make them more broken than cassassdra... Orz
Re: [Feedback] Trigger Abuse Case and a Possible solution for it
Miyu:I wouldn't really say " silence aura for 2 turns after 15 attacks" on 2nd boss a nerf too. It more like putting back raid 2 back to what it was intended to be. There is a legit team to clear boss 2 and that team is not a SDD team, so u will 101% not trigger that at all. Talking about SDD, the irony is that your guild is abusing Rhea or Taegen SDD on that boss instead of building a legit team.
With respect to your statement regarding aura silence, I assume you're referring to Raid 2 Phoenix, Aura Silence is a non-issue since the raid is meant to be tackled with just a few final hits at the end that doesn't even exceed 10, let alone 15, there should be no reason for you to complain about it if you were to make a proper squad to tackle phoenix instead of abusing cheese strategies, which I obviously understand that you're biased with regards to this since your guild members are all abusing it in order to clear Raid 2 illegitimately and that the inception of such counter would render your guild's collaborative effort useless. It's a mystic fight, not a trigger fight, period.
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First of all, thanks everyone for all the feedback, both pro and con. yeah I realized this suggested system may be too complicated for a game already on a 1 year + cycle.
Guys, I was so lazy to answer two guys here, but now I just feel like it, about the so ridiculous things ExArchz and Miyu have said.
First, do both of you have some reading problem? Or maybe are just stupid? I was suggesting something that would nerf all trigger teams, so why are you speaking shit about I'm being against SDD Nerf? That makes me wonder. I have always being pro-SDD or Trigger nerf.
Second. The Engare Counter was never 2 Turns Stun, it just felt like it, cause you got stunned on the active turn, and the next one, but by all means in how this system works it's still one turn.
Third. Who are you both to judge and what the people in guild are doing? Saying my guild is clearing content illegitimately ? You sincerely made me laugh, I know so much shit about so many things that some people here did or had access to in the past that if I were to talk... well.. maybe some people would not like it. My people do what they want, they are not my slaves, hacking is forbidden, no one hacked anything. Now what about the rest? Exploits? Even in Discord people always recommend to use exploits and abuse of non intended "features". Maybe some secret channels in some closed Guilds too (WHAT GUILD?
) ? Who knows! Maybe you guys are angels watching the sinners from above. So, please, stop with this nonsense, it's very embarrassing for you both... maybe there's more to why you guys are being so offensive and butt hurt about it? I have reported to Devs lots of times in the past every time I found something exploitable or a bug. I do my part, my members are individuals, they play the way they like, it's inside the rules. I have my mind clear about that.About the 15 limit trigger... Unless you reduce your trigger power by a lot you can't calculate your trigger chances, how could you? Sometimes even 3 heroes trigger alone are enough for 15 Hit. Happens to me, I'm sure it happens to others too.
Now back to the reason why I still believe a nerf to the system is the best solution. Even if it's not an infinite combo, some specific squad comps will still be able to reach high numbers of triggers in one way or another in some content or another. The Enrage bar being active in all contents acts like a Band-Aid in the game system. There will always be breaches for huge combos, and all non trigger heroes will keep being Bad for most of the time. Thats MY opinion, MINE! We can all disagree because of perspectives.
Re: [Feedback] Trigger Abuse Case and a Possible solution for it
wow, of all things u want to nitpick, u chose to confront me about my small statement regarding raid 2 and called me out with an insult(maybe?)Miyu:I wouldn't really say " silence aura for 2 turns after 15 attacks" on 2nd boss a nerf too. It more like putting back raid 2 back to what it was intended to be. There is a legit team to clear boss 2 and that team is not a SDD team, so u will 101% not trigger that at all. Talking about SDD, the irony is that your guild is abusing Rhea or Taegen SDD on that boss instead of building a legit team.
With respect to your statement regarding aura silence, I assume you're referring to Raid 2 Phoenix, Aura Silence is a non-issue since the raid is meant to be tackled with just a few final hits at the end that doesn't even exceed 10, let alone 15, there should be no reason for you to complain about it if you were to make a proper squad to tackle phoenix instead of abusing cheese strategies, which I obviously understand that you're biased with regards to this since your guild members are all abusing it in order to clear Raid 2 illegitimately and that the inception of such counter would render your guild's collaborative effort useless. It's a mystic fight, not a trigger fight, period.
________________________________________________________________________________________
First of all, thanks everyone for all the feedback, both pro and con. yeah I realized this suggested system may be too complicated for a game already on a 1 year + cycle.
Guys, I was so lazy to answer two guys here, but now I just feel like it, about the so ridiculous things ExArchz and Miyu have said.
First, do both of you have some reading problem? Or maybe are just stupid? I was suggesting something that would nerf all trigger teams, so why are you speaking shit about I'm being against SDD Nerf? That makes me wonder. I have always being pro-SDD or Trigger nerf.
Second. The Engare Counter was never 2 Turns Stun, it just felt like it, cause you got stunned on the active turn, and the next one, but by all means in how this system works it's still one turn.
Third. Who are you both to judge and what the people in guild are doing? Saying my guild is clearing content illegitimately ? You sincerely made me laugh, I know so much shit about so many things that some people here did or had access to in the past that if I were to talk... well.. maybe some people would not like it. My people do what they want, they are not my slaves, hacking is forbidden, no one hacked anything. Now what about the rest? Exploits? Even in Discord people always recommend to use exploits and abuse of non intended "features". Maybe some secret channels in some closed Guilds too (WHAT GUILD?
About the 15 limit trigger... Unless you reduce your trigger power by a lot you can't calculate your trigger chances, how could you? Sometimes even 3 heroes trigger alone are enough for 15 Hit. Happens to me, I'm sure it happens to others too.
Now back to the reason why I still believe a nerf to the system is the best solution. Even if it's not an infinite combo, some specific squad comps will still be able to reach high numbers of triggers in one way or another in some content or another. The Enrage bar being active in all contents acts like a Band-Aid in the game system. There will always be breaches for huge combos, and all non trigger heroes will keep being Bad for most of the time. Thats MY opinion, MINE! We can all disagree because of perspectives.
If u really think that i'm totally against your guild and just full out hate, then that is just u, i can't be bothered to change what u think about that. i just said my point and my observations from your members. I'm pretty sure i didn't say specifically u that are against sdd nerf, u just made it sound like adding aura silence enraged is a bad thing.
if u are entitled to your opinions, i'm sure i'm entitled to have mine too, how i see other players/guild is also based on my opinions. By saying who am i to judge your guild, are u trying to deny me my opinions?
Regarding the other parts of the "hate". I believe we already had a discussion about this on discord already and long settled, so i shall not say anymore.
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PyrExpress
Junior Member
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Re: [Feedback] Trigger Abuse Case and a Possible solution for it
I'll just throw my opinion about this...
Devs are somewhat at fault here. By introducing heroes that promote "trigger abuse", they unconsciously instigated this, then decides punishing us for doing so.
Honestly though, if the bosses doesn't have those ridiculously high skill resistances, people would be more willing to try different strategies and not forced to go for trigger team simply because it is "too hard" for other strats...
Devs are somewhat at fault here. By introducing heroes that promote "trigger abuse", they unconsciously instigated this, then decides punishing us for doing so.
Honestly though, if the bosses doesn't have those ridiculously high skill resistances, people would be more willing to try different strategies and not forced to go for trigger team simply because it is "too hard" for other strats...
