Valiant Force Forum

Well I did say it was a biased analogy from the start, but it is all a matter of how you view it. 
The truth is, the only reason we have different views is because our playing fields were never inherently equal, because a wipe after beta was never implemented. Rest assured none of these would have come up from me if it had ever happened.

Well I did say it was a biased analogy from the start, but it is all a matter of how you view it. 
The truth is, the only reason we have different views is because our playing fields were never inherently equal, because a wipe after beta was never implemented. Rest assured none of these would have come up from me if it had ever happened.

But i leveled out the variables to a realistic reference for you to understand. Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

Just because you didn't start at the same time as others, or be the first batch that starts playing the game, and you feel like there is alot to catch up, is unfair?

It is not about the devs only caters to the old players. They are producing new contents for everyone to enjoy. It seems like the bar is alittle too high for you to reach and you QQ.

I'm a F2P player. I havn't complete the 100% quest. I am struggling but i know my place. Gotta work hard and with maybe abit of luck(?) i can clear it!


Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

Well I did say it was a biased analogy from the start, but it is all a matter of how you view it. 
The truth is, the only reason we have different views is because our playing fields were never inherently equal, because a wipe after beta was never implemented. Rest assured none of these would have come up from me if it had ever happened.

But i leveled out the variables to a realistic reference for you to understand. Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

Just because you didn't start at the same time as others, or be the first batch that starts playing the game, and you feel like there is alot to catch up, is unfair?

It is not about the devs only caters to the old players. They are producing new contents for everyone to enjoy. It seems like the bar is alittle too high for you to reach and you QQ.

I'm a F2P player. I havn't complete the 100% quest. I am struggling but i know my place. Gotta work hard and with maybe abit of luck(?) i can clear it!


Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

Like I say, if the event difficulty remains the same 1 year from now, and everybody is clearing with ease, its not anybody's fault but the developer.
Its not my job or your job to keep the game interesting for me, its for the developer. If everyone keeps quiet, they imagine that everything they are doing is perfect, which is not the case.

Your blame game is very strong sir. There is always new player, now you, as a new player fight for their privileges with your justification. And it is the dev's fault when you can and I can clear with ease? Didn't you fight for the newbie for easy event? I'm having a really easy time with this event and I don't blame the dev, because they have to cater for the L2P people.

The F2P I know of is doing so much better than all the L2P here. The P2P haven't event start complaining the ease of clearing event. It is never the dev's fault.

So which group do you belong to?

After all, the world is filled with hard truth, making game is a business, business needs money, money don't come from L2P and F2P.

If u ever need help, post ur team setup and the stage you wanna clear, everyone here will try their best to guide you through this difficult game. Writing wall of text without mentioning your team setup and baseline won't get you any help.

We didn't cry nerf when we reach a point where we got stuck in an event, we ask for pointers to clear, what unit to bring in what formation to use. That's how the beta player get past all sort of nightmares.

Blame game? Sorry, but if a game is not making money in the end, or is not popular, I fail to see how any of the blame falls on the gamers. If the game is intuitive, engaging for the bulk of the people playing it, naturally the rest of the people will want to come. Developers control that, never gamers. It is up to them to interpret the gamers needs/preferences and tune accordingly. 
Making a game is definitely a business, but if you dont have f2p, you dont have spenders, because otherwise there is nothing distinguishing them from anyone else. And there is rarely full f2p in any game, every person will spend some small amount sooner or later if they really like the game. 10k players spending 100 a month, or 100k players spending 1 dollar a month, which seems more easily achievable?

If you see the IOS store review, there is one person who spelt it out better than I could.

Your blame game is very strong sir. There is always new player, now you, as a new player fight for their privileges with your justification. And it is the dev's fault when you can and I can clear with ease? Didn't you fight for the newbie for easy event? I'm having a really easy time with this event and I don't blame the dev, because they have to cater for the L2P people.

The F2P I know of is doing so much better than all the L2P here. The P2P haven't event start complaining the ease of clearing event. It is never the dev's fault.

So which group do you belong to?

After all, the world is filled with hard truth, making game is a business, business needs money, money don't come from L2P and F2P.

If u ever need help, post ur team setup and the stage you wanna clear, everyone here will try their best to guide you through this difficult game. Writing wall of text without mentioning your team setup and baseline won't get you any help.

We didn't cry nerf when we reach a point where we got stuck in an event, we ask for pointers to clear, what unit to bring in what formation to use. That's how the beta player get past all sort of nightmares.

Blame game? Sorry, but if a game is not making money in the end, or is not popular, I fail to see how any of the blame falls on the gamers. If the game is intuitive, engaging for the bulk of the people playing it, naturally the rest of the people will want to come. Developers control that, never gamers. It is up to them to interpret the gamers needs/preferences and tune accordingly. 
Making a game is definitely a business, but if you dont have f2p, you dont have spenders, because otherwise there is nothing distinguishing them from anyone else. And there is rarely full f2p in any game, every person will spend some small amount sooner or later if they really like the game. 10k players spending 100 a month, or 100k players spending 1 dollar a month, which seems more easily achievable?

If you see the IOS store review, there is one person who spelt it out better than I could.

Hello halekuuu,

You wanted a easier game. When game is easy you blame dev for it and is not your fault. That makes perfect sense. So what do your really want?

There will always be f2p, the major problem in game industry is L2P. They band together and cause chaos.

Based on how you argue, a wipe will not stop people like you from coming into the forum and cry foul. You who join today will complain about we who start at launch day, saying why did the event not cater to the day 0 player. The way you pull data and statistics from the cloud makes you are formidable opposition in argument, doubt anyone can satisfy your thrist for entitlement.

You are truly a narccisst in full denial.

Well I did say it was a biased analogy from the start, but it is all a matter of how you view it. 
The truth is, the only reason we have different views is because our playing fields were never inherently equal, because a wipe after beta was never implemented. Rest assured none of these would have come up from me if it had ever happened.

But i leveled out the variables to a realistic reference for you to understand. Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

Just because you didn't start at the same time as others, or be the first batch that starts playing the game, and you feel like there is alot to catch up, is unfair?

It is not about the devs only caters to the old players. They are producing new contents for everyone to enjoy. It seems like the bar is alittle too high for you to reach and you QQ.

I'm a F2P player. I havn't complete the 100% quest. I am struggling but i know my place. Gotta work hard and with maybe abit of luck(?) i can clear it!


Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

And let me revise the 100 m dash analogy.
Lets say the national average for the 100 m dash for a 10 year old is 14 seconds. For a 16 year old its 10 seconds.
An event for a Pri 4 school 100m dash should use this as a benchmark. Each student that manages this time, gets a certain reward. If you manage 10 seconds and below, you get even more! 
Beta are like 16 year olds who stayed back in Pri 4, competing in an event for 10 year olds, but with added rewards, why wouldnt they run even though its a piece of cake for them? Or should the school host another event not for Pri 4, but for an age group instead?
It is however, sickening of the school use the 10 second benchmark on this Pri 4 100 m dash, just because there are 16 year olds in the mix! Sure there are some elite runners or etc, but this is not the average and should not be the average. That is my point all along.

But i leveled out the variables to a realistic reference for you to understand. Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

Just because you didn't start at the same time as others, or be the first batch that starts playing the game, and you feel like there is alot to catch up, is unfair?

It is not about the devs only caters to the old players. They are producing new contents for everyone to enjoy. It seems like the bar is alittle too high for you to reach and you QQ.

I'm a F2P player. I havn't complete the 100% quest. I am struggling but i know my place. Gotta work hard and with maybe abit of luck(?) i can clear it!


Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

And let me revise the 100 m dash analogy.
Lets say the national average for the 100 m dash for a 10 year old is 14 seconds. For a 16 year old its 10 seconds.
An event for a Pri 4 school 100m dash should use this as a benchmark. Each student that manages this time, gets a certain reward. If you manage 10 seconds and below, you get even more! 
Beta are like 16 year olds who stayed back in Pri 4, competing in an event for 10 year olds, but with added rewards, why wouldnt they run even though its a piece of cake for them? Or should the school host another event not for Pri 4, but for an age group instead?
It is however, sickening of the school use the 10 second benchmark on this Pri 4 100 m dash, just because there are 16 year olds in the mix! Sure there are some elite runners or etc, but this is not the average and should not be the average. That is my point all along.

Enjoy your 10 year old rewards then because you certainly act like one. 

Well I did say it was a biased analogy from the start, but it is all a matter of how you view it. 
The truth is, the only reason we have different views is because our playing fields were never inherently equal, because a wipe after beta was never implemented. Rest assured none of these would have come up from me if it had ever happened.

But i leveled out the variables to a realistic reference for you to understand. Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

Just because you didn't start at the same time as others, or be the first batch that starts playing the game, and you feel like there is alot to catch up, is unfair?

It is not about the devs only caters to the old players. They are producing new contents for everyone to enjoy. It seems like the bar is alittle too high for you to reach and you QQ.

I'm a F2P player. I havn't complete the 100% quest. I am struggling but i know my place. Gotta work hard and with maybe abit of luck(?) i can clear it!


Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

Nope. My point is very plain and simply this.
The bar shouldnt be too high for a player playing from day 1. Beta is beta, whales will be whales, but you do not make your events just to suit these players, you should make your events to the level of someone who is playing from day 1! Simple as that!
There is a very simple reason most games wipe after beta, because of inconsistencies like these! You cannot make the event hard enough for beta that it would be feasible for non beta players to complete, but yet you cannot make it feasible to complete for official launch players, but keep it consistently challenging for beta! This is NOT a level playing field and experience on both ends will obviously be different!
But you SHOULD cater to the majority! And I doubt beta + whales will be the majority. Majority of spenders maybe, but not your player base majority. You will not get new spenders if your new crowd do not enjoy your events or find it fair.

But i leveled out the variables to a realistic reference for you to understand. Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

Just because you didn't start at the same time as others, or be the first batch that starts playing the game, and you feel like there is alot to catch up, is unfair?

It is not about the devs only caters to the old players. They are producing new contents for everyone to enjoy. It seems like the bar is alittle too high for you to reach and you QQ.

I'm a F2P player. I havn't complete the 100% quest. I am struggling but i know my place. Gotta work hard and with maybe abit of luck(?) i can clear it!


Do you agree with my improved version of your 100m dash analogy?

Nope. My point is very plain and simply this.
The bar shouldnt be too high for a player playing from day 1. Beta is beta, whales will be whales, but you do not make your events just to suit these players, you should make your events to the level of someone who is playing from day 1! Simple as that!
There is a very simple reason most games wipe after beta, because of inconsistencies like these! You cannot make the event hard enough for beta that it would be feasible for non beta players to complete, but yet you cannot make it feasible to complete for official launch players, but keep it consistently challenging for beta! This is NOT a level playing field and experience on both ends will obviously be different!
But you SHOULD cater to the majority! And I doubt beta + whales will be the majority. Majority of spenders maybe, but not your player base majority. You will not get new spenders if your new crowd do not enjoy your events or find it fair.

Hello halekuu,

Define your average player.

Let me give you a scenario of beta wipe.

Everyone start at day 1, whales, spender and F2P.

My average player is full team 4*
Whaler full team 5*
Spender 3 4* 2 5*

Event is here
*based on your arguement dev should cater to all player

Whaler clear legendary (on farm)
Spender clear heroic stuck at legendary
Average clear normal, some able to clear heroic, stuck at legendary.

Or do you prefer:
Whaler auto legendary
Spender semi-auto legendary
Average clear legendary ??

So you (halekuuu) join today thus can't clear heroic or legendary, how ? Nerf it down for you since u stand for the majority.

Nope. My point is very plain and simply this.
The bar shouldnt be too high for a player playing from day 1. Beta is beta, whales will be whales, but you do not make your events just to suit these players, you should make your events to the level of someone who is playing from day 1! Simple as that!
There is a very simple reason most games wipe after beta, because of inconsistencies like these! You cannot make the event hard enough for beta that it would be feasible for non beta players to complete, but yet you cannot make it feasible to complete for official launch players, but keep it consistently challenging for beta! This is NOT a level playing field and experience on both ends will obviously be different!
But you SHOULD cater to the majority! And I doubt beta + whales will be the majority. Majority of spenders maybe, but not your player base majority. You will not get new spenders if your new crowd do not enjoy your events or find it fair.

Hello halekuu,

Define your average player.

Let me give you a scenario of beta wipe.

Everyone start at day 1, whales, spender and F2P.

My average player is full team 4*
Whaler full team 5*
Spender 3 4* 2 5*

Event is here
*based on your arguement dev should cater to all player

Whaler clear legendary (on farm)
Spender clear heroic stuck at legendary
Average clear normal, some able to clear heroic, stuck at legendary.

Or do you prefer:
Whaler auto legendary
Spender semi-auto legendary
Average clear legendary ??

So you (halekuuu) join today thus can't clear heroic or legendary, how ? Nerf it down for you since u stand for the majority.

Ah, now you seem to slightly understand what I am talking about. If I joined today, how am I supposed to join the event? I already said it should be to the level of day1 players yes? Then players late to join should not complete 100% easily! You prove my point.

So why did I suddenly join today? But you get the idea. If I want to catch up to the level of someone who played 3 weeks ago (officially, not beta) then I should spend. No qns asked.

And you should check your understanding of narcissist. Mind boggling